Oh no, laminitis! Advice please

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Sarah1

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Hi All

Some of you may remember me posting about my new little mare, she's rather fat and we've been trying to shift a bit of her lard since she came to us about 6 weeks ago. I've bought her a muzzle (though only got this last week) & she's only been on a small amount of grass, 1st of all with half a dozen sheep and another little pony and then the sheep were moved.
I think the fact that the sheep haven't been there to graze the new shoots coupled with the fact that I've found out the cheeky little beggar has been eating the fallen apples from the trees in the orchard (even with the muzzle on!) has brought on a case of laminitis :(
She came into the stable yesterday at midday and will remain there for a few days yet. Yesterday I wasn't too sure if it was definitely laminitis so I asked my farrier how best to deal with the situation & he said to box rest her & give nothing but hifi lite to eat. Today, however, I'm positive :(
Even though she's been in the stable she seems to have gotten worse? Is this normal?
Can anyone advise the best way to treat her now? I was going to give her the rest of today to see if being off the grass improves her condition and if not get the vet tomorrow? Should I start giving her bute?
I've been taking her for a gentle walk still - she had appeared to be happy enough on soft ground and she did seem to be walking better afterwards but now I don't know if I should walk her out?
We've always had to watch our oldie for laminitis and luckily *touches wood* we've managed to keep her lami-free so dealing with a case of it is a bit of a new thing for me.

Many thanks guys
 
Is there any heat in her feet?

Is there a digital pulse?

Is she weight shifting? Looking uncomfortable?

Personally i would want a vet to come and have a look before giving her bute. Atleast then you will know the best plan of action!

I would also want blood tests done for EMS and cushings.
 
Hi, sorry to hear about your mare, personally I'd get the vet now and get some bute after he has seen her, early treatment can make a difference.

Personally I'm not a fan of just hi fi lite for laminitics; it still contains molasses and alfalfa which some ponies/horses seem to react to. Plenty of 12 hr soaked hay is what I tend to give, soaking will remove the sugars and having the gut filled with fibre and working is better for the 'good' bugs.

I wouldn't be walking her out until all signs of a digital pulse are gone, keep her on a deep bed of something like easybed to support her feet.
 
BlackVelvet said:
Is there any heat in her feet?

Is there a digital pulse?

Is she weight shifting? Looking uncomfortable?

Personally i would want a vet to come and have a look before giving her bute. Atleast then you will know the best plan of action!

I would also want blood tests done for EMS and cushings.
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Not really much heat TBH.

I think I can feel a pulse but it's not a stonking pulse if that makes sense?

She is weight shifting & will go stand on the shavings for comfort. Looks uncomfortable when walking on hard ground or turning circles. Not too bothered if I tap her sole gently with the hoof pick.

I will give the vet a ring now & see what they say

Thanks :)
 
touchstone said:
Hi, sorry to hear about your mare, personally I'd get the vet now and get some bute after he has seen her, early treatment can make a difference.

Personally I'm not a fan of just hi fi lite for laminitics; it still contains molasses and alfalfa which some ponies/horses seem to react to. Plenty of 12 hr soaked hay is what I tend to give, soaking will remove the sugars and having the gut filled with fibre and working is better for the 'good' bugs.

I wouldn't be walking her out until all signs of a digital pulse are gone, keep her on a deep bed of something like easybed to support her feet.
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Thanks for your reply - she'll have to have the hifi lite for today now & I'll soak her a haynet tonight.
 
Agree with comment above about HiFi Lite. Mine reacts to too much alfalfa, so he now gets none at all (makes feed shopping a nightmare round here!), so I'm another who would do soaked hay (I soaked for nearly 24hrs when Henry had LGL). I also agree about getting the vet. A consultation with a farrier just won't do. He should be working in conjunction with the vet, not instead of. Alarm bells would ring if she was getting worse, so if I were you I'd get onto the vet asap. Better an unnecessary vet bill than a dead horse. Hope she's ok.
 
Lami is an emergency.....you need the vet out today!
The longer its left without treatment, the poorer the long term outlook for her is.
Until the vet arrives, you need to have her indoors, on a thick bed that reaches all the way to the door....no floor should be visable. This could be for some time (at the very least until she is comfortable and sound on a soft surface.
Then you need to soak her WEIGHED amount of hay and soak for a minimum of 12 hours with a water change half way if possible. Rinse well before double netting and feeding.
Bute will be prescribed by the vet along with sedalin/ACP if needed.
 
Just to add, you want your shavings right up to the door, if the laminae are compromised then there is nothing but weakened, painful laminae supporting the pedal bone when the horse is stood on a hard surface and it could potentially do more damage, especially if shod.

Sorry - cross posted with Joanne.
 
Hi, I'd call the vet today. I had my old cob for 10yrs and he suddenly went down with laminitis and all four if his pedal bones had dropped quickly and after a month of treatment he was pts as he wasn't getting better.
 
Fransurrey said:
Agree with comment above about HiFi Lite. Mine reacts to too much alfalfa, so he now gets none at all (makes feed shopping a nightmare round here!), so I'm another who would do soaked hay (I soaked for nearly 24hrs when Henry had LGL). I also agree about getting the vet. A consultation with a farrier just won't do. He should be working in conjunction with the vet, not instead of. Alarm bells would ring if she was getting worse, so if I were you I'd get onto the vet asap. Better an unnecessary vet bill than a dead horse. Hope she's ok.
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I wasn't planning on only having my farrier deal with this situation - I asked him the best course of action when I wasn't sure if it was definitely laminitis. I trust him, he's an excellent farrier and a great horseman and has actually taught the vets a thing or 2 about laminitis with past clients.
 
joeanne said:
Lami is an emergency.....you need the vet out today!
The longer its left without treatment, the poorer the long term outlook for her is.
Until the vet arrives, you need to have her indoors, on a thick bed that reaches all the way to the door....no floor should be visable. This could be for some time (at the very least until she is comfortable and sound on a soft surface.
Then you need to soak her WEIGHED amount of hay and soak for a minimum of 12 hours with a water change half way if possible. Rinse well before double netting and feeding.
Bute will be prescribed by the vet along with sedalin/ACP if needed.
Click to expand...

She's already fairly comfortable on a soft surface TBH it's hard surfaces she's struggling with.
 
Any news from the vet?

Poor pony. I agree with everything everyone else has said. My first mare had EMS and came down with laminitis suddenly. The vet gave her a pain killing injection and danilon and was not allowed anything but soaked hay.

I think if you are experienced with dealing with Laminitis then you can treat it yourself with advice from the vet, but if it id the first time for this pony, the vet will be the best option.

I hope she makes a speedy recovery xx
 
Sarah1 said:
She's already fairly comfortable on a soft surface TBH it's hard surfaces she's struggling with.
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For me thats not enough....she would need to be TOTALLY comfortable on a soft surface before I was even thinking about letting her walk on a harder surface.
The fact she is "pottery" says she needs to be on (and stay on) a soft surface.
 
amymay said:
That's laminitis for you.


So does not calling the vet out fall in to your position of not wrapping horses up in cotton wool:confused:
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Erm, no, if she need a vet she needs a vet - I don't think basic care is wrapping a horse in cotton wool. What exactly are you getting at?
 
joeanne said:
For me thats not enough....she would need to be TOTALLY comfortable on a soft surface before I was even thinking about letting her walk on a harder surface.
The fact she is "pottery" says she needs to be on (and stay on) a soft surface.
Click to expand...

She IS on a soft surface and will be staying on a soft surface as per my original post :confused:
 
Sarah1 said:
Erm, no, if she need a vet she needs a vet - I don't think basic care is wrapping a horse in cotton wool. What exactly are you getting at?
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Not getting at anything really - just curious.

Good luck with the vet then, and let us know how you get on.
 
SpottyFalula said:
Any news from the vet?

Poor pony. I agree with everything everyone else has said. My first mare had EMS and came down with laminitis suddenly. The vet gave her a pain killing injection and danilon and was not allowed anything but soaked hay.

I think if you are experienced with dealing with Laminitis then you can treat it yourself with advice from the vet, but if it id the first time for this pony, the vet will be the best option.

I hope she makes a speedy recovery xx
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Thank you - waiting for vet to ring me back rather than speaking to receptionist :)
 
joeanne said:
For me thats not enough....she would need to be TOTALLY comfortable on a soft surface before I was even thinking about letting her walk on a harder surface.
The fact she is "pottery" says she needs to be on (and stay on) a soft surface.
Click to expand...

^^^ Agree with this; if you are lucky and have caught and treated it early and it is a mild attack you might get away with a pony that is sound and workable again in a few weeks; if not then you could be looking at months of hard work and vets bills and we all know the worst case scenario. :(

If mine shows any signs of laminitis then it is in with a deep bed to the door, fed soaked hay with a small feed of fast fibre to any supplements. Once the digital pulses are gone and pony is completely sound on all surfaces, off bute, I'd allow turnout/leading out on a soft surface and keep a very close eye. Exercise can be beneficial in improving circulation once they are healing, but when the horse is in the acute stages of an attack you risk making things worse by letting them move around too much.
 
I'm sorry but your OP says you have been walking her out.....that is going to imvolve ground that is too hard.
I learnt the hard way about lami, so if I sound a bit in your face, I can only apologise, but I would hate to see a post in a few weeks saying you have had to have your pony PTS after complications, when the complications are so easy to avoid when you know how!
Brighteyes (I think) was a bloody god send when I first posted about Lami....along with several others.
You DO need to keep her in on a deep bed that reaches all the way to the door.
Feed only hay that has been soaked for a MINIMUN of 12 hours with a water change half way through, and a good final rinse. You need to remove as much from it as possible.
Until she is totally sound on a soft surface, I would not even take her out the stable to muck out...I would do it around her.
And call the vet out.
I hope she is feeling better very soon, but the hard reality is Lami is a pain in the butt and a pony can take months to come right again.
 
joeanne said:
I'm sorry but your OP says you have been walking her out.....that is going to imvolve ground that is too hard.
I learnt the hard way about lami, so if I sound a bit in your face, I can only apologise, but I would hate to see a post in a few weeks saying you have had to have your pony PTS after complications, when the complications are so easy to avoid when you know how!
Brighteyes (I think) was a bloody god send when I first posted about Lami....along with several others.
You DO need to keep her in on a deep bed that reaches all the way to the door.
Feed only hay that has been soaked for a MINIMUN of 12 hours with a water change half way through, and a good final rinse. You need to remove as much from it as possible.
Until she is totally sound on a soft surface, I would not even take her out the stable to muck out...I would do it around her.
And call the vet out.
I hope she is feeling better very soon, but the hard reality is Lami is a pain in the butt and a pony can take months to come right again.
Click to expand...

No, I haven't walked her out since I brought her off the grass. She is now in on a soft surface & will remain there until she's better.

Vet has just called, advised box rest for 5 days, soaked hay little & often & bute. If I feel she's getting even a little worse in the meantime then to call them.

Thanks everyone for your help.
 
While I would agree that Laminitis is a very serious issue and consider it a veterinary emergency I think If you are equipped and experienced in dealing with it, it is not always necessary to call the vet in the first instance as a vet can't do any more than you can unless it is indeed very serious... there are varying levels of discomfort fom mildly footy to not being able to weightbare at all... it is a matter of judgement.

I would keep her in and on bute (this is the bit you might need the vet for) fed only soaked hay (feed 1.5% of her bodyweight in dry hay a day - soaked for 12 hours, wrinced and drained) feed a small ammount of unmollassed chaff or fast fibre with the bute in - add mint to disguise the taste if neccessary. You could also add a magnesium supplement as this will help her metabolise the sugars better.

Hi-fi lite is unfortunately mollassed so would look at another option.

Keep her in until she is comfortable without bute for at least 48 hours.

In the mean time I would use the sheep and other horses to graze a small turnout area well down for her and ensure she can't get to the apple trees in future... sounds like she has enjoyed rather too much cider!!!

When se can go out, start with half an hour at a time and gradually build it up. also use the grazing muzzle to enable you to allow her slightly extended periods out.

Good luck! Sounds like you caught it early and you are very on the ball.
 
CBFan said:
While I would agree that Laminitis is a very serious issue and consider it a veterinary emergency I think If you are equipped and experienced in dealing with it, it is not always necessary to call the vet in the first instance as a vet can't do any more than you can unless it is indeed very serious... there are varying levels of discomfort fom mildly footy to not being able to weightbare at all... it is a matter of judgement.

I would keep her in and on bute (this is the bit you might need the vet for) fed only soaked hay (feed 1.5% of her bodyweight in dry hay a day - soaked for 12 hours, wrinced and drained) feed a small ammount of unmollassed chaff or fast fibre with the bute in - add mint to disguise the taste if neccessary. You could also add a magnesium supplement as this will help her metabolise the sugars better.

Hi-fi lite is unfortunately mollassed so would look at another option.

Keep her in until she is comfortable without bute for at least 48 hours.

In the mean time I would use the sheep and other horses to graze a small turnout area well down for her and ensure she can't get to the apple trees in future... sounds like she has enjoyed rather too much cider!!!

When se can go out, start with half an hour at a time and gradually build it up. also use the grazing muzzle to enable you to allow her slightly extended periods out.

Good luck! Sounds like you caught it early and you are very on the ball.
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Thank you :) I really hope I have caught it early, poor little mite, hasn't helped that she was overweight when we bought her either :eek:
I'm off work tomorrow so will be scouring all grazing areas for a bit of scrub & putting a pen up there and that's where she'll be living when she's better ;)
 
CBFan said:
While I would agree that Laminitis is a very serious issue and consider it a veterinary emergency I think If you are equipped and experienced in dealing with it, it is not always necessary to call the vet in the first instance as a vet can't do any more than you can unless it is indeed very serious... there are varying levels of discomfort fom mildly footy to not being able to weightbare at all... it is a matter of judgement.
Click to expand...

Agreed...brat pony was caught footy after the first night on new paddock even with a muzzle strapped on. Happy as larry on the grass, but as soon as he got to stones/hard ground not so keen. Depending on the severity, I think common sense goes a long way. He was brought in through the day with thoroughly soaked hay, handful of safe and sound with some bute and a bare paddock was created. He went out in that straight away through the night for the first couple of days and then lived in there 24/7 with nettles, soaked haynets and pony nuts sprinkled round to keep him moving and occupied for the next 2/3 weeks. An initial phone call to the vet to explain my plan was agreed. He knew he wouldn't do 24/7 box rest and it was the only option. The vet came and checked him and his cushings levels to confirm he could be weaned back out onto the grass after 3 weeks and I kept his bare paddock in place for when they move paddocks again so I won't have a lami repeat!
 
Sarah1 said:
Thank you :) I really hope I have caught it early, poor little mite, hasn't helped that she was overweight when we bought her either :eek:
I'm off work tomorrow so will be scouring all grazing areas for a bit of scrub & putting a pen up there and that's where she'll be living when she's better ;)
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No, that wouldn't ave helped but the fact that you recognised that and have been doing something to adress it is very much a positive thing and the very reason why I think people are being too harsh on you!!

good luck! I have a 17.2hh lami prone... it is not fun trying to control him!!
 
touchstone said:
^^^ Agree with this; if you are lucky and have caught and treated it early and it is a mild attack you might get away with a pony that is sound and workable again in a few weeks; if not then you could be looking at months of hard work and vets bills and we all know the worst case scenario. :(

If mine shows any signs of laminitis then it is in with a deep bed to the door, fed soaked hay with a small feed of fast fibre to any supplements. Once the digital pulses are gone and pony is completely sound on all surfaces, off bute, I'd allow turnout/leading out on a soft surface and keep a very close eye. Exercise can be beneficial in improving circulation once they are healing, but when the horse is in the acute stages of an attack you risk making things worse by letting them move around too much.
Click to expand...
Agree with this, I assume the shoes are off and she is on a deep bed.
Equimins make Laminator for this condition, so I would add this to the Fast Fibre. No molasses AT ALL.
Remember she still needs to lose weight, but has to be supported with limited exercise when she is able to walk comfortably, this may take a long time, be patient.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Agree with this, I assume the shoes are off and she is on a deep bed.
Equimins make Laminator for this condition, so I would add this to the Fast Fibre. No molasses AT ALL.
Remember she still needs to lose weight, but has to be supported with limited exercise when she is able to walk comfortably, this may take a long time, be patient.
Click to expand...

Yes, shoes off, she didn't have them anyway as she's a Shettie and is my young daughters pony so not really in proper ridden work yet.

She's in a mare & foal box with plenty of shavings (though will bring bed forward even more tonight in line with peoples suggestions) so when she is feeling a bit more like herself she has plenty of room to mooch about - it's so big for her I could actually lunge her in there ;)
I have Global Herbs Laminitis prone which I will try to give her...somehow! :D
Feeling a bit more positive thanks to some of the comments on here and after speaking with my vet, thank you :)
 
Ok Sarah - sorry come to this late

Hope your little mite is improving. I've 2 lamintics, one chronic, both sound and happy.

You're doing the right things - off he grass, soaked hay (soak for a couple of hours if you can) and provide a conformant surface - shavings is fine, but I prefer straw providing they don't hog into it. Straw doesn't pack in the feet the same way as shavings, and doesn't dry them like shavings do

Diet wise - soaked hay is OK for a short time but at the moment the nutritional needs will be quite high and you need tro make sure there is adequate mineral and vitamin intake or you'll have a malnourished and laminitic pony if you see what I mean.

We feed an unmolassed chaff (not Hi Fi as it has things like fungal and mould inhibitors, Pure do a good one), we use a sprinkle of high fibre cubes of the lowest sugar/starch we can find, linseed meal.

We make up our own mineral and vit mix, but you cna get one off the shelf from Forage Plus or Pro Earth or Equimins Meta Balance Advance that has everything you need in it - especially magnesium and so on.

I trust she is not shod? You may well just get away with this one, and she may pick up after a week to 10 days, but if not you are going to have to think about a plan for managing a laminitic - and turning back out on to grass is not a plan. Look for a rough area, little grass that you cna use.

Shetlands eh? Just what my one would have done!
 
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