OH'S female dog aggressive towards me

[Fides]

WARNING - this may be a long one!

My fiance moved in with me and we have merged our packs. I have two dogs - foxhound lurcher and saluki lurcher, and he has two - mastiff x sharpei and GSD. My dogs are well behaved, respectful and have wonderful lead manners and recall. His dogs are boisterous to the point of luncacy, have only very basic grasp of commands (and usually choose to ignore you), pull like a steam train and have no recall.

My dogs have always lived out in a heated building whilst I have not been at home and for bed but alterations were needed to accommodate 4 large dogs so they have all been in the house since November! And I only live in a 2 bed cottage...

As you can imagine my nice peaceful life has gone... His dogs will come in covered in mud and despite being told to go on their beds (mine will stay put until I invite them into the living room) to dry off they will bound upstairs (no dogs upstairs is the rule) and jump all over the sofa (again a rule of no dogs on the furniture). I have taken a lead in training them as they are his 'babies' and he talks to them like they understand him - not really conducive to getting a dog to do something... They are better than they were but there is still a long long way to go.

The aggressive part - the mastiff x sharpei is the softest, mardest dog I have ever met! He's a lovely dog but quite nervous. OH has informed me that he has bitten someone in the past when scared. I am uncomfortable about this but have had to accept that he is his dog. But the GSD (who is his blue eyed girl and can do no wrong) is getting aggressive with me. She has, for a while "grumped" at me (not quite a growl - more a grumble) and my response has been to tell her 'no' but nothing else. Well recently she has outright growled at me when I have said 'no'.

There has been an occasion when she refused to come back on a walk so I put her into a sit and went to get her. As I went to get her collar to clip the lead on she lunged at me teeth bared. My OH witnessed this (he had not believed me about the growling up to this point) and said he would get her. I refused and told her to sit, then lie - which she did, and while she was lay I clipped the lead on. I put my lurcher's muzzle (he's not aggressive but will have rabbits without it) on her and walked her on the lead for the rest of the walk.

Yesterday she lunged at me again. This time for making her go out for a wee. I opened the door and the other 3 went out but she decided cause it was raining she wasn't going. I scooted round behind her to herd her out and she lunged at me and bit my hand. She didn't draw blood but I was very shaken up. I have to say I forcibly ejected her from the house with a mop as I wasn't taking any chances and she was still in the garden when my OH got home.

Today she growled at me again - so again she spent the day in the garden.

I have bought a muzzle and have insisted she is to wear it at all times - it is still in the bag! Not too much of an issue as I am at work tonight but OH will be gone before I get home in the morning and god I hope he has put it on!

A bit of background about me... I have two dogs of my own,have fostered for a charity for 3 years specialising in difficult, large breed and working dogs. I have had about 30 dogs over the 3 years and have had success with 28. 2 of them I had to take to the vets to PTS (under the OK of the charity) as they could never be safely rehomed due to severe aggression - the charity wouldn't take liability of homing an aggressive dog. Both I had with me for 3 months and were very very fearful. They took no delight in human company and actively avoided it. I had other fosters with similar backgrounds and fears who I did get through their problems and rehome - it wasn't that I didn't try. My foxhound lurcher is still with me 8 years on despite 3 trainers and a vet telling me to PTS.

So I am speaking with a little experience...

OH is talking children in the next couple of years and there is no way I would have either dog around a child...

The way I see it is that OH needs to stop babying her and start treating her like a dog and I believe the problems will stop. I believe that she resents me for making her do as she is told and he lets her get away scot free...

So the plan of action!

1) Muzzled at all times
2) Dogs to sleep outside in their doggy palace and when we are not there too
3) I am going to do all feeding to establish my role as provider
4) Dogs get fed last - he is a ****** for putting their dinners down while I am cooking and before we have eaten
5) OH is under instructions he is to not talk to her for a week and if he needs to, just to give one word commands (and a good girl if she does it first time) - currently it is "good girl sit"which drives me insane - rewarding the dog before it has done anything...
6) and not least - lots of praise when she does do as she is asked

What do people think - am I way off the mark here? Is there any way of dealing with this dog without me getting bitten?

I have told my OH if she lunges at me again either he leaves with his dogs or she is PTS... I will not live with an aggressive dog.

I want to do my best to help her but I feel until we are working the same way she is just going to get worse

Edit - OMG it was a long one - sorry for that

Just wanted to add I am not a total disciplinarian. The dogs get lots of praise when they behave and generally. They are much loved and do get lots of cuddles of course x

 

[Dry Rot]

You have PM.

 

[SadKen]

I daresay someone else with more experience (CC!) will be along shortly, and DR will have given you more info!

Sounds to me like the classic case of a disunited front. Kids take advantage of this too and it never ends well! Your OH needs to step up and take charge as currently he's not the leader - she is! And she doesn't like that you are challenging for the position. I knew as soon as I read that one dog was a GSD that it would be her who was the problem, because they do tend to rigidly obey pack rules and logic (which isn't always our logic) whereas other breeds can be more flexible ime. Some people also say that male GSDs gravitate to protect women, and female GSDs will gravitate to men, but I don't know how true that is as I've never owned a bitch!

When I met OH his GSD didn't think much of me. He certainly wasn't aggressive or unpleasant, I was just an irrelevance to him, but OH would not have tolerated ANY dislike towards me at all. Your OH is putting this girl above you by not taking any steps to discipline her.

This will be a hard one to crack and I don't blame you for not wanting her in your house. If OH won't step up and discipline her in a united way with you, he will end up having to rehome or PTS - spell it out to him like that, as he won't want to lose her. I think it's recoverable, because GSDs do learn really quickly.

By the bye I don't think that it's worth putting her outside for a day to 'learn' as I don't think she would associate cause and effect. The mop probably had more effect than the being outside for a long time. If she was mine, I would confine to one room (the kitchen?) and if fit enough I would walk her via bicycle with a muzzle on for a LONG way (miles!) so she has to follow me. She also would have to obey commands to get ANYTHING - sit, lie down, whatever you want but she doesn't get anything unless she's done as she's told.

As she has bitten you, I'd probably get some professional help in ASAP. Perhaps OH will listen to them if he won't listen to you.

 

[conkers]

Can't add anything constructive but just wanted to say that you don't sound off the mark here. You want to give all dogs a consistant approach and are trying your best to keep both your OH and the GSD.

I would have issued the same choice to OH. You can't put yourself in danger and if he cares for you and the dog he will try to do what it takes to restore harmony.

 

[Alec Swan]

.......

I have told my OH if she lunges at me again either he leaves with his dogs or she is PTS... I will not live with an aggressive dog.

........ They are much loved and do get lots of cuddles of course x

I suspect that your relationship is on very rocky ground, as you're offering ultimatums, and I'm with you, except that you really shouldn't have to, and secondly, your last line seems to be at odds with the previous advice which you gave your OH (correctly in my view), that he ignores the dog except for giving instructions.

Lots of cuddles will very soon turn around to the dog putting you in your place, and meaning it. She's already warned you, so the next step will be rather inevitable.

In your shoes, and considering the situation, one with which I have some sympathy for you, either the OH, with his dog, or the dog alone, would be gone. The bitch, as things are, has the upper hand, and if it continues, you will eventually have to reduce in size the occupant list of your home!!

Alec.

 

[Highlands]

She is top dog and now you want to be... She not used to it. Have a look at Jan Fennel or even Caesar Milan and get a trainer in.

 

[thewonderhorse]

i would say that your approach is spot on.

I have a rescue GSD. The first day i had him he growled at me as he had got on the sofa (something he was previously allowed to do perhaps??) and i had said "off" and got hold of his collar.

He soon got to know (not through violence) that i am pack leader and he wasnt.

3 years on, he is allowed on the sofa occasionally, only when invited and he is as good as gold and a complete mummys boy. My OH doesnt get a look in if i am about. He will go to him for a fuss when im not at home but wont go out on a walk with him. He is definately my dog but is good natured with everyone.

Your OH needs to realise that he needs to change his behaviour with this dog as he is doing her no favours by letting her think that she can get away with it.

Good luck x

 

[Spudlet]

I would suggest getting an opinion from a trainer or behaviourist that does home visits. Inevitably you and your OH are going to be very emotionally involved in this situation and a neutral third party may be able to observe things that neither you nor your OH are in a position to see. Also, getting advice from a pro might help to persuade your OH that things need to change - annoying as that is for you as you have experience, but sometimes people find it easier to take advice from someone else.

I hope you can get it sorted out.

 

[s4sugar]

As a stopgap can't the OH dogs use the outside space with your dogs inside? A stairgate could be a wise investment too. TBH though I feel you need to rethink the entire relationship.

 

[Saneta]

You sound spot on with the way forward. It sounds lie any training OH has done is more by luck than judgement. Would he consider going to a trainer to learn the correct interaction with his dog? I hope you don't have to give an ultimatum and that he sees the problem for himself. Please keep us posted, Good Luck!

 

[twiggy2]

I would have dealt with the issue before now so find it difficult to advise-in my house if the dog had reached lunging OR biting it would be going to the vets and not coming home. Don't put all the blame on OH as you have waited till it has escalated to this point to finally say enough is enough.

 

[weevil]

She is top dog and now you want to be... She not used to it. Have a look at Jan Fennel or even Caesar Milan and get a trainer in.

Or get in a reputable behaviourist who realises that the dominance theory is a load of rubbish.
Or, you could try CM techniques on an aggressive GSD - that will surely end well...

 

[thewonderhorse]

Or get in a reputable behaviourist who realises that the dominance theory is a load of rubbish.
Or, you could try CM techniques on an aggressive GSD - that will surely end well...

Doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[Teaselmeg]

Or get in a reputable behaviourist who realises that the dominance theory is a load of rubbish.
Or, you could try CM techniques on an aggressive GSD - that will surely end well...

^^^ This, it is nothing to do with being 'pack leader' .

Firstly, you need to get a qualified behaviourist in to assess what is going in.

In the mean time, this dog may be fearful and is using the only way she knows how to stop you by being aggressive to make you go away, you sound like you are being quite confrontational. You are right, she does not understand what your partner is saying, but she also does not understand what you are asking her to do, you need to show her in a non confrontational way, that she will understand, a proper trainer will help. Everyone's world has been changed by you moving in together and it sounds like a lot more work needs to be done on both sides to help everyone get on. GSD's are very much one person dogs.

 

[Sandstone1]

^^^ This, it is nothing to do with being 'pack leader' .

Firstly, you need to get a qualified behaviourist in to assess what is going in.

In the mean time, this dog may be fearful and is using the only way she knows how to stop you by being aggressive to make you go away, you sound like you are being quite confrontational. You are right, she does not understand what your partner is saying, but she also does not understand what you are asking her to do, you need to show her in a non confrontational way, that she will understand, a proper trainer will help. Everyone's world has been changed by you moving in together and it sounds like a lot more work needs to be done on both sides to help everyone get on. GSD's are very much one person dogs.

Wel said.

 

[Fides]

Sounds to me like the classic case of a disunited front. Kids take advantage of this too and it never ends well! Your OH needs to step up and take charge as currently he's not the leader - she is! And she doesn't like that you are challenging for the position. I knew as soon as I read that one dog was a GSD that it would be her who was the problem, because they do tend to rigidly obey pack rules and logic (which isn't always our logic) whereas other breeds can be more flexible ime.

By the bye I don't think that it's worth putting her outside for a day to 'learn' as I don't think she would associate cause and effect. The mop probably had more effect than the being outside for a long time. If she was mine, I would confine to one room (the kitchen?) and if fit enough I would walk her via bicycle with a muzzle on for a LONG way (miles!) so she has to follow me. She also would have to obey commands to get ANYTHING - sit, lie down, whatever you want but she doesn't get anything unless she's done as she's told.

Thanks SK - she is a highly intelligent dog and I know she will be able to learn if given the right direction. Basic commands are pretty much nailed now and she is really biddable in that respect.

I didn't put her outside to teach her a lesson though - it did it for my own safety...

As a stopgap can't the OH dogs use the outside space with your dogs inside? A stairgate could be a wise investment too. TBH though I feel you need to rethink the entire relationship.

I have considered that but have wanted them all together so the 'pack' is stable. Interestingly though - she has no boundaries with other dogs either. Mind have had to put her in her place a few times when she has got 'in their face'.

As for the stairgate - I kind of believe in training dogs not to do things rather than preventing it as I want to solve the problem not mask it. His mastiff x (who is frankly lovely but a bit dim) has learned already Plus she's a GSD that stands 30 inches at the shoulder - she can clear a stable door, she could certainly clear a stair gate lol

I would have dealt with the issue before now so find it difficult to advise-in my house if the dog had reached lunging OR biting it would be going to the vets and not coming home. Don't put all the blame on OH as you have waited till it has escalated to this point to finally say enough is enough.

If she was my dog I would have done this on the first occasion but she isn't unfortunately. I haven't waited till this point to do things - I have been constructive in training and managing her. OH loves his dog and may be finding it difficult to see that she isn't the angel he though she was.

Or get in a reputable behaviourist who realises that the dominance theory is a load of rubbish.
Or, you could try CM techniques on an aggressive GSD - that will surely end well...

CM - not a chance! That guy makes me cringe I want my dogs to respect me not fear me - so many of the dogs he 'trains' show a fear response and the behaviour only changes as the dog shuts down

The vast majority of advice here seems to be get a behaviourist in - OH has suggested this himself. Though his idea was to send GSD away for training. I have pointed out with him that it is interactions in the house that are the problem and he is not going to solve that by sending the dog away.

But maybe someone coming in will make him see... Maybe they can see something that I am inadvertently doing and not noticing too...

Off to walk the mutts now - 3 together then GSD on her own with muzzle. I may use the lead I use for bunny-chaser-boy which is longer and goes round the waist

Another thing I might try is instead of putting the dinners down and letting the dogs in one by one (they all eat together but we let them in to the room one by one to stop a free-for-all), I might let them all in and get them to wait by their 'spot' and have them (all) work for their dinner. The whole nothing-in-life-is-free thing... Or would that confuse her as the current principle is the dogs get fed last after us (and even the cats) so they are getting 'left overs'. By handing her, her dinner would I be handing her over more control as she would see me as giving her my food?

 

[Fides]

this dog may be fearful and is using the only way she knows how to stop you by being aggressive to make you go away, you sound like you are being quite confrontational. You are right, she does not understand what your partner is saying, but she also does not understand what you are asking her to do, you need to show her in a non confrontational way, that she will understand.

I am deliberately calm and non-confrontational with my dogs. I have had enough difficult fosters to have learned tackling things like that doesn't work. The confrontation thing you may perceive is me objecting to being bitten - which I don't think is unreasonable... She understands what I ask - she will behave beautiful on occasion but if she decides she doesn't want to do something (like go outside for a pee following the 3 other dogs who have already gone out) her response is to be aggressive with me. She shows no signs of fear response - she is a very bold dog.

 

[pippixox]

i really feel for you. i agree that trying to be 'top-dog' is just a silly concept! she needs to learn to listen and respect you. i have a GSD cross who is a softy with all humans, but as i spend more time with him and have done more training with him than my other half (he is a 2yo rescue) he does listen to me more and i think understand me better. she knows what she is doing and is pushing her luck to see what she can get away with, but obviously you need to not get hurt. i would keep at clear rules and be firm. but i think it sounds more like your OH is the problem, not the dog. she has not been told what she can and cant do before so is showing her displeasure! if he can follow the same rules towards the dogs that you have things should improve. i honestly do think dogs play one 'parent' off another like children do- my boy knows i don't do treats, but sits nicely by the fridge when my OH is there encase he will slip him something!
personally i make my dog sit and wait by his food bowl and he must wait until i say he can eat.

i'm sure more experienced people can offer more advice. i would say stay strong but also perhaps try to enjoy her company? as you are probably finding it hard to be positive with her and she will pick up on that. dogs behave better for people who they like and get enjoyment from i think. then she may be more relax and less likely to feel aggressive?

 

[Broodle]

So I am speaking with a little experience...

OH is talking children in the next couple of years and there is no way I would have either dog around a child...

..

I have told my OH if she lunges at me again either he leaves with his dogs or she is PTS... I will not live with an aggressive dog./QUOTE]

I won't pretend to have more knowledge or experience than you, because I don't, but I do have a young son and two (very easy and well behaved! ) dogs. I personally think you are on the money with your instincts re mixing these known biters with kids.

Maybe you can establish the training to a degree where you can trust them round adults, but they should never ever mix with kids imo. Kids (esp young ones!) are just too unpredictable (and untrainable ).

Yes I'm sure there are people who will tell you that it's perfectly possible to keep dogs and children separate. But even if you can juggle it all with dogs living outside etc, it will surely be no fun. No family walks, for a start.

Just my take on things, and others may scoff. I'm no nervous mum either - my dogs mix freely with my son and he meets all sorts of dogs out and about. But I'd not let him near any known biter, no matter what the subsequent training or mitigating factors.

 

[Fides]

So I am speaking with a little experience...

OH is talking children in the next couple of years and there is no way I would have either dog around a child...

..

I have told my OH if she lunges at me again either he leaves with his dogs or she is PTS... I will not live with an aggressive dog./QUOTE]

I won't pretend to have more knowledge or experience than you, because I don't, but I do have a young son and two (very easy and well behaved! ) dogs. I personally think you are on the money with your instincts re mixing these known biters with kids.

Maybe you can establish the training to a degree where you can trust them round adults, but they should never ever mix with kids imo. Kids (esp young ones!) are just too unpredictable (and untrainable ).

Yes I'm sure there are people who will tell you that it's perfectly possible to keep dogs and children separate. But even if you can juggle it all with dogs living outside etc, it will surely be no fun. No family walks, for a start.

Just my take on things, and others may scoff. I'm no nervous mum either - my dogs mix freely with my son and he meets all sorts of dogs out and about. But I'd not let him near any known biter, no matter what the subsequent training or mitigating factors.

Agree with you - when we have children she will be allowed nowhere near them unsupervised... She will be muzzled at all times when they are together even supervised. I am a dog lover but I would not take risks with a child's life...

 

[Fides]

Right I spoke to a local behaviourist guy and he is coming out on Monday He has given me a few pointers in the meantime - a few of which I am already doing but the main ones are

- only I am to feed her for a week and he suggested putting the food down after they are in the room, not before
- A week with no talking to her, just basic one or two words to avoid any confusion. He also agrees that 'good girl' should only come after she has done what she is asked.
- He also suggested her 'shadowing' me ' being attached to me and going where I go so she learns to respect my personal boundaries.

I cracked on straight away and have just had quite a successful session with her. I attached her to me whilst I mucked out the stable, filled nets, did water buckets, feeds etc. I went about my business like she wasn't there and she respected my personal space and stayed at heel for most of the time. I was really impressed with her Afterwards we went for a short walk, then I let her off lead for a blast in the field to let off some steam and get really muddy We practiced a bit of recall and are now back in the house getting warm

One thing he made me think about is that she is an incredible licky dog (which I hate). She will lick your hands constantly whilst walking and lick your face if you are on her level. I detest it. She doesn't just do it to people she does it to other dogs too and it has caused friction between the dogs. He suggests that she is actually in a role she isn't comfortable in and is showing signs of submission through the licking. That the excessive licking could be her way of shouting that she wants more leadership. She doesn't want to be leader (she cooperates most of the time) but has had 8 years of doing what she pleases so is reluctant to give up that part of it.

He agrees that the dog house will help establish the home as my (our) own and as dogs they get invited in, not the other way round.

He also suggested that I am to be the one to groom her - I already am but it makes sense. She's a long haired GSD and needs daily brushing. He suggested I be a little more directed when brushing and brush her where I want to. Currently she does manipulate the situation by moving so that she gets brushed where she likes best...

I have also booked in for obedience classes where my dogs got their citizenship awards from. The guy is a straight talking no-nonsense sort... Not going to take all 4, just his two. They also do agility afterwards so may suggest to OH that he might like to try that with her - to get her under control enough off lead to do obstacles will be a challenge lol

Anyway I am a bit more positive about the whole thing now so thanks all for your advice/support/encouragement. I'll keep this thread open with updates...

 

[thewonderhorse]

Sounds very positive OP and if shes anything like my lad she will be very quick to catch on. She sounds like a good dog, just needing a bit of guidance.

Plus, you are doing something about it, which i think is brilliant.

If you have a problem, solve it, dont just get rid like so many people do.

Hats off to you OP and keep us updated x

 

[Fides]

Sounds very positive OP and if shes anything like my lad she will be very quick to catch on. She sounds like a good dog, just needing a bit of guidance.

Plus, you are doing something about it, which i think is brilliant.

If you have a problem, solve it, dont just get rid like so many people do.

Hats off to you OP and keep us updated x

Thanks for your kind comment. I have always relished difficult dogs in the past but it has always been having them as a foster and there have been goals and time schedules etc to get them rehomed. It's different when it's your own as there isn't the time constraint so it is a but less organised. Well organisation is a must! We will get there She's not a completely bad dog - she is just undisciplined, big and boisterous...

Gizza love mum

 

[twiggy2]

If she was my dog I would have done this on the first occasion but she isn't unfortunately. I haven't waited till this point to do things - I have been constructive in training and managing her. OH loves his dog and may be finding it difficult to see that she isn't the angel he though she was.

i meant with OH not the dog

 

[Goldenstar]

I hope you get this sorted it does not sound undoable .
Getting pro's involved will help with your OH it take this seriously and avoid confrontation over it as I would pretty miffed by his attitude if I where you .

 

[Dobiegirl]

I think youve done really well given the circumstances, the hardest thing that I see is getting your oh on side and not allowing her to ingratiate herself with him again. Your trainer sounds like he knows what he/she is talking about and already you are making progress, she sounded like a dog who didnt know her place and I mean that in the nicest way, dogs needs bounderies and routine, they like to know where they stand and moving the goal posts just upsets that and makes them miserable and she sounds a sensative sort. Doing all the things Obedience etc will create a fantastic bond with her and I feel very sure you will end up with the most fantastic dog, good luck and keep us updated.

 

[SusieT]

I'd get and keep a trainer in. Being super aggresive in your approach to training an adult dog that is used to being pampered is going to result in friction and aggression as she is confused and sees it as unfair.
Being super soft is not going to work with a new living arrangement either. It may not work. You may need to liver separately if you can't view 'his' dogs as your dogs together.

 

[Saneta]

Great news OP, onwards and upwards. I hope your OH appreciates what a lovely kind and caring person he's managed to catch. Your attitude bodes very well for your relationship too!!!

 

[Teaselmeg]

For me he does not sound like a very clued up behaviourist, lots of his advice screams of pack leader rubbish. But I hope all goes well for you OP, lots of luck.

 

[Dry Rot]

For me he does not sound like a very clued up behaviourist, lots of his advice screams of pack leader rubbish. But I hope all goes well for you OP, lots of luck.

Could we know your reasoning (a scientific reference or two would be nice) so the rest of us can decide who is right? And how many/what dogs does you experience relate to?

Judging from your previous posts, you seem to be denying that there is a social hierarchical structure within a pack or even that humans may be perceived by dogs as part of that pack?