OH'S female dog aggressive towards me

.... And to follow on from D_R's question, and comments, I would point out to those who feel inclined to follow Teaselmeg's apparent beliefs that the pack order within canines, and presumably through to humans, is nonsense, I'd point out that all of those dog handlers, who I know of, who train either for a living, or in competition, and many at International level and all highly experienced and knowledgeable people, will assure those who will listen, that D_R is entirely correct in his statement, and that he is as right now, as he would have been 50 years ago.

Despite what many who support the new-age canine psychology will tell you, the basics of canine understanding and management are still as they were, and from since man and dog joined together, and in to the same pack.

Alec.
 
Dry Rot said:
Could we know your reasoning (a scientific reference or two would be nice) so the rest of us can decide who is right? And how many/what dogs does you experience relate to?

Judging from your previous posts, you seem to be denying that there is a social hierarchical structure within a pack or even that humans may be perceived by dogs as part of that pack?
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Does anyone really believe there's no hierarchy in packs , surely not .
Both horses and dogs respond to leadership they do it differently but they both do .
It's being a good leader that's the knack you need to learn .
 
Alec Swan said:
.... And to follow on from D_R's question, and comments, I would point out to those who feel inclined to follow Teaselmeg's apparent beliefs that the pack order within canines, and presumably through to humans, is nonsense, I'd point out that all of those dog handlers, who I know of, who train either for a living, or in competition, and many at International level and all highly experienced and knowledgeable people, will assure those who will listen, that D_R is entirely correct in his statement, and that he is as right now, as he would have been 50 years ago.

Despite what many who support the new-age canine psychology will tell you, the basics of canine understanding and management are still as they were, and from since man and dog joined together, and in to the same pack.

Alec.
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I fully agree with pack order, I find it difficult to keep a straight face when people start talking as if all dogs of the world are trying to gain power over us as if they are trying to conquer the world. Very few dogs are born to be leaders otherwise there would be constant fighting within every pack-we are the problem on the whole we are bl**dy useless leaders and so the dog has to try to step up to the mark, they don't wast to but their whole social being dictates there needs to be a leader so if we don't do it /or cause confusion by being inconsistent problems arise.

obviously when a pack is merged there is often a settling in period this is more likely to happen when the humans create confusion with mixed messages or are having a power struggle themselves over who is in charge/or who's rules are to be followed.

good luck with OH OP
 
Now there is a shock Alec, you disagree with me !!

Yes there is a hierarchy within a group of dogs if they live with you, but we are human, they are canine, we give dog boundaries within which they get to live with us, we are not their 'pack' leader. Eating before your dog, walking through doorways before them etc might make you feel like you are showing them you are in charge, but means nothing to a dog.

Modern, scientific based dog training is based on how dogs learn, teaching them in a way they will understand. Not talking/interacting with a dog as this behaviourist is suggesting won't teach it anything, showing what you want the dog to do in a way it will understand will.

You should check out Nando Brown on Youtube Alec ( though I'm sure you won't!). He is a former Marine, cage fighter and used to train his dogs using adversive methods, he looked into modern training methods and saw how successful it was and changed how he trained. He is based in Spain and has trained Pit bulls, Dobermans etc all trained using 100% positive methods.
 
Teaselmeg - can you please keep your personal gripes to yourself. It doesn't do your point any favours... I have seen Nando Brown's methods - it's nothing revolutionary, just old beliefs rehashed. I use quite a lot of 'his' methods myself. His ideas on recall didn't work for my lurcher though...

Things are going well with Sheba though she has had to take a bit of a back seat today as one of my horses died :(
 
Teaselmeg said:
Now there is a shock Alec, you disagree with me !!

.......

You should check out Nando Brown on Youtube Alec ( though I'm sure you won't!). He is a former Marine, cage fighter and used to train his dogs using adversive methods, ........
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I've looked in to your Mr. Brown and his youtube efforts, which will doubtless please you. What may not please you, quite so much, is that I gave up his level of trick-teaching dog training, when I was about 15 years old. I'd also point out to you that being a cage fighting and former marine wouldn't impress any dog which I've ever met.

The incidents and examples which your Mr. Brown has offered are those where the dog is happy to comply. The original poster, Fides, has a situation where a dog has entered her home which has bonded with her new partner and refuses to accept discipline from another. That is understandable, and were I in the OP's shoes, it would present a bit of a challenge! The dog is blameless in this, but somehow progress has to be made. The OP cannot be in a position of having to 'ask' the dog to comply. That wont do!

Fast forward now to the OP and her progress, I suspect Fides that you, and that bloody dog, are going to be fine. The trick with some dogs is that you take the fight, the contest and the conflict, out of the equation, and that it sounds, is just what you're doing. You may well find that your relationship with your OH and his dog, will be on entirely different levels. You will win, I suspect!

From the pic that you put up, and I know that it's only a pic, but that does look to be a spiteful and selfish face. I'm happy to be be proved wrong, as always!!

It sounds as though you're making progress. Well done!

Alec.
 
Fides, I am very very sorry about your horse.

I was using Nando purely as an example to those that still believe that those of us that promote modern, positive training methods are all fluffy bunny huggers !


If you think that I was rude and that Alec was ok in his comments about my advice, then I will bow out of this thread.
 
Hi Fides, sorry to hear about your horse.

There is a lot I agree with on this thread, a lot I disagree with, some, all or none of it will apply to your individual dog.
I would only take the advice of someone who has owned, lived or worked with a dog displaying these tendencies (I wonder how many people on this forum have actually been bitten by a large dog - I have, and only accidental bites- it was my fault, not the dog's - and chuff me, it hurts - or who have had a dog like this living in their household - it may change perspective and views somewhat) and I am really pleased you are moving in the right direction and hope your OH is behind you fully.
You are very good to persist with this dog, it must be a very difficult situation you are in and while I personally wouldn't have let it get to this stage, hindsight is a wonderful thing! It'll make you a better trainer ;)

A couple of things that have popped out though:
Is she allergic to something? The area around her eyes and nose looks really inflamed. What is she fed on?
I know this seems like the most innocuous thing in the world, but don't put a phone or camera in her face if your relationship with her is not good. I've seen dogs either be badly spooked by or kick off massively at having a phone, camera or video camera pointed at them. They don't know what it is, just a strange object with lights and strange noises emanating from it being held towards them.
 
CaveCanem said:
Hi Fides, sorry to hear about your horse.
A couple of things that have popped out though:
Is she allergic to something? The area around her eyes and nose looks really inflamed. What is she fed on?
I know this seems like the most innocuous thing in the world, but don't put a phone or camera in her face if your relationship with her is not good. I've seen dogs either be badly spooked by or kick off massively at having a phone, camera or video camera pointed at them. They don't know what it is, just a strange object with lights and strange noises emanating from it being held towards them.
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She does have allergies and is on prednisolone for it. She is fed on wellbeloved chicken and rice (not my choice)

Good point about the phone -will bear that in mind thankyou
 
No worries, would not have believed it if I had not seen it myself (a dog withdrawn from a show class because he freaked out at a camcorder, a dog growling at a camera phone!)

Might be something as simple as switching from the chicken to the fish version, chicken doesn't agree with a lot of dogs. My old fella had pretty bad allergies, he was a very heavy coated GSD and very low protein fish and rice food (ranges for elderly dogs are best as they have least protein) suited him really well, Wainwrights senior fish and rice from Pets at Home is a good deal cheaper than James Wellbeloved. If she's less itchy/uncomfortable it might improve her mood a bit - just a thought/something for the toolbox!
 
CaveCanem said:
No worries, would not have believed it if I had not seen it myself (a dog withdrawn from a show class because he freaked out at a camcorder, a dog growling at a camera phone!)

.......!
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The pointing and accusatory finger can often have the very same effect. Some dogs, those where the person doing the 'pointing' has control will accept it as a form of discipline, but from a stranger (and this now takes us back to the OP and her OH's dog), it will be viewed as aggression, and those with the stomach will stand up to be counted. It's a very useful form of aggression assessment, but not for the ill informed.

Alec.
 
Thanks CC - she is actually doing better on it. Her skin has cleared up and the bare patches on her back that she had nibbled have grown back fur now. Still a way to go but the switch has seemed to have worked (I suggested hypoallergenic OH picked brand). I might suggest to OH about wainwrights. I'll have a look at the dietary content of them both and come armed - hes a solicitor so will want proof... Ever tried arguing with someone who does it for a living???
 
Wainwrights IMO is a similar if not better food for less money (if he is a solicitor he will not argue with that logic :p)
It's a nightmare if they have allergies especially with a heavy coat (and she looks to have a very heavy coat) as they never get truly dry/clean to recover.
My young one is a semi long coat and his is changing at the moment, four weeks of elbow grease later and we've just about got rid of all the dead stuff, I feel your pain!
 
CaveCanem said:
No worries, would not have believed it if I had not seen it myself (a dog withdrawn from a show class because he freaked out at a camcorder, a dog growling at a camera phone!)

Might be something as simple as switching from the chicken to the fish version, chicken doesn't agree with a lot of dogs. My old fella had pretty bad allergies, he was a very heavy coated GSD and very low protein fish and rice food (ranges for elderly dogs are best as they have least protein) suited him really well, Wainwrights senior fish and rice from Pets at Home is a good deal cheaper than James Wellbeloved. If she's less itchy/uncomfortable it might improve her mood a bit - just a thought/something for the toolbox!
Click to expand...

agree with this - switch to a fish and rice/potatoe version as they can react to the chicken and second the wainwrights, good food for those with allergies (they also do a whole range of chews and treats which are hypoallergenic)

Have never had to deal with that level of aggression / insecurities etc in a dog so will refrain for advice there but good luck
 
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