OK - all in a knot about feeds/supplements - advice please!

PolarSkye

PolarSkye

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This is a follow on from my thread about supporting good hoof horn for Kali. Obviously his current feed/supp regime isn't working b/c his feet are rubbish. Just to recap, he is currently fed:

- 1/4 scoop Alfa A (molasses free) 2x/day
- 1/4 scoop Blue Chip Original 2x/day (contains Biotin)
- 1 scoop HH Seaweed and Rosehip (supposed to support horn development) - 2x/day
- 1 skip haylage 2x/day

He is out at night (in overreach boots), during the day he is in on straw - bed well-maintained and kept clean (although he trashes it). He is an active/busy boy and is healthy in every other way (although he is very thin-skinned and marks very easily - and his rugs rub). He isn't a particularly good doer and isn't prone to lami (and isn't a native type). His grazing is on chalk and gravel and is well-drained. He isn't prone to mud fever.

He does well on the Alfa A and BC - and specifically chose to feed the BC b/c it also contains magnesium, oil, a pro-biotic to support his gut and a respiratory supplement (as well as the biotin/lysine) . . . before we landed on this feeding regime he was getting pink powder, calmer, oil, biotin and something to support his respiration.

I need to change something - as I said the HH and BC aren't supporting horn growth adequately - some kind folks on here recommended Formula 4 Feet and reading up it does sound excellent - but there's alot of overlap b/w what's in that and what's in the BC. But if I switch from BC to F4F, I'll need to give him something else to support his gut and act as a calmer (so back to pink powder and a calmer?).

Just to complicate matters even more, he's on full livery and we're thinking about switching him over to the yard feed (which is included in my livery fees) - Chestnut Feed. Chestnut is a fibre-based, chaff-type feed with additional vitamins and minerals. I had said that I would continue to feed BC alongside, but now I'm wondering if we need to completely rethink his nutrition.

Options are:

- Leave him on current feed/supps but just up the HH quantities - not convinced that would work

- Leave him on Alfa A and BC and find another hoof supplement - just straight biotin?

- Leave him on Alfa A, switch to F4F and then add in pink powder, calmer and something for his respiration (garlic and honey?)

- Switch to Chestnut, find another balancer that isn't so duplicative (need to find out more about what exactly is IN Chestnut) and then add in supps for gut/brain/lungs

- Switch to Chestnut, add F4F and pink powder, calmer and respiration stuff

Sigh.

Why is this so difficult? Thoughts?

Like most horses, he does not tolerate sugars well (they send him right round the twist) . . . alfalfa and soya oil seem to be fine. He hates ProCalm and ProFeet (liquid or granules) and he won't touch any of the Global Herbs supplements either (fussy little twit). We tried Blue Chip Karma and it didn't seem to work - not sure why. I really want to keep his feed as simple as possible . . . and I do want to be mindful about what the yard feeds - they're more than willing to do what I want - and if he doesn't get on with the Chestnut he won't have it, pure and simple, but if it works then why not feed him what I'm already paying for?

Tapas and dry sherry for all who got this far :). Any and all suggestions welcome.

P
 
I can't help with specific feeds I'm afraid, but when I got my tb who has very bad feet, my farrier told me they need 30mg of biotin to improve hoof quality, so I guess you could check how much biotin he actually is getting.
Kx
 
My horses feet improved when I took her off Alfa A. So might be worth cutting it out and trying the Chesnut feed with the blue chip.
Personally I try to keep feeding simple I had my tb on as much hay as she wanted with a feed of Fast fibre (Allen and Page)
 
Having a yardfull of horses, if I was to do a complete feed for each and every one I would need a massive feedroom ;) so, I have basic (sort of) ingredients that I mix to suit each horse:
DH Just Grass, Readigrass or any other freeze dried grass chaff
Baileys Lo-cal balancer
Outshine
Speedibeet
Whole oats

and supplements, mainly by Equistro, have a look at their website, it shows what can be fed with what and is in general a good source of info.
I have the Megabase (instead of Baileys Lo-cal for the ones that can't cope with a balancer)
Betamag or Equiliser (although I do substitute with Equine America Magnitude if I feel skint)
Flexadin
Kerabol
Respadril/Secreta Pro

That pretty much covers all bases for feeding anything with any need, baring intolerances of difficult nature.
 
If you read all the bumf you will see that there is magnesium in the F4F, so all you should need to add is a probiotic yeast such as Yea-Sacc. You might find you don't need the calmer anyway if you switch to F4F as the starch content is much lower than in Blue Chip.
 
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Circe said:
I can't help with specific feeds I'm afraid, but when I got my tb who has very bad feet, my farrier told me they need 30mg of biotin to improve hoof quality, so I guess you could check how much biotin he actually is getting.
Kx
Click to expand...

Good point - will take a look. I think we've worked out that he's not getting the RDA of the BC anyway - so it's likely he's not getting enough.

Thanks :).

P
 
vicky_sut said:
My horses feet improved when I took her off Alfa A. So might be worth cutting it out and trying the Chesnut feed with the blue chip.
Personally I try to keep feeding simple I had my tb on as much hay as she wanted with a feed of Fast fibre (Allen and Page)
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm all about simple too. That's interesting about the Alfa A. As his is now running out, we're beginning the gradual introduction of the Chestnut this week - perhaps we look at how he does on that . . . up the BC (to be sure he's getting enough Biotin) . . .

P
 
martlin said:
Having a yardfull of horses, if I was to do a complete feed for each and every one I would need a massive feedroom ;) so, I have basic (sort of) ingredients that I mix to suit each horse:
DH Just Grass, Readigrass or any other freeze dried grass chaff
Baileys Lo-cal balancer
Outshine
Speedibeet
Whole oats

and supplements, mainly by Equistro, have a look at their website, it shows what can be fed with what and is in general a good source of info.
I have the Megabase (instead of Baileys Lo-cal for the ones that can't cope with a balancer)
Betamag or Equiliser (although I do substitute with Equine America Magnitude if I feel skint)
Flexadin
Kerabol
Respadril/Secreta Pro

That pretty much covers all bases for feeding anything with any need, baring intolerances of difficult nature.
Click to expand...

Yes - same at our yard - all the horses are on one of the Chestnut range feeds, plus supplements (Farrier's Formula, pink powder, various calmers, Cortaflex, etc.). While it seems restrictive/inflexible, I totally get YO's point.

P
 
TGM said:
If you read all the bumf you will see that there is magnesium in the F4F, so all you should need to add is a probiotic yeast such as Yea-Sacc. You might find you don't need the calmer anyway if you switch to F4F as the starch content is much lower than in Blue Chip.
Click to expand...

Interesting! So BC contains more starch but also contains calmer . . . but F4F has less starch . . . perhaps I just need to do some £££ calculations too.

Thank you :)

P
 
Agree with TGM.

Formula4Feet instead of BC, I'd also change to a chaff like Graze On, I've only ever had problems with Alfa A. You could also feed brewers yeast which is what Pink Powder is based on without the price tag) I found the BY has a great effect on the condition of the skin and hoof growth and it sometimes, depending on your horse, has a very calming effect too.
Thing is, each horse is different and will react differently to any feed but I strongly recommend the Formula4 Feet, it brought these feet back to health within six months, the farrier couldn't believe the difference in the quality of horn she put up relatively quickly, you could certainly see a big improvement in her overall health too by the start of the second tub as it doesn't just improve the feet but overall condition too.
feet003.jpg

feet008.jpg

Not a close up but hopefully you can see the feet well enough a few months later.
013-6.jpg
 
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OK - thanks for all your advice.

He's switching to the Chestnut . . . we're going to up the BC (he's not getting his RDA), add some brewer's yeast, remove his hind shoes, continue with the Keratex and re-evaluate in a month or so. The increase in BC should up his Biotin intake . . . it that doesn't help we'll consider switching him off the BC and onto something like F4F - I just felt we should give the BC a chance to work properly.

Just to complicate matters further, we're noticing that he's a little pottery in front sometimes (particularly on harder ground) - he always works through it and you wouldn't say he was actually lame, but we're keeping an eye b/c his very upright foot conformation puts him at risk for navicular :(. Oh, and dentist came out to him yesterday and, as I had him there I asked him to age Kal (you'll remember that his passport is a) false; and b) has no d.o.b.) - he reckons he's much nearer to 12 than 9 . . . sigh.

Farrier doesn't feel we need to do anything about his fronts yet . . . just make sure we keep an eye out. It's interesting b/c when the vet last saw him (when he was recovering from that suspected fracture) she thought he looked very slightly bilaterally lame in front - not even 1/10th and only on a hard surface . . . it may not be the beginnings of navicular but it's certainly something to keep in the back of our minds.

P
 
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