OK folks: Redwings is officially full

[guesstimation]

Spudlet - the exmoor had sweetitch which I was experienced in dealing with for a horse living out and there were no obvious reasons it shouldn't have been able to go barefoot if managed correctly, if there were reasons these weren't explained to me. I remember feeling I didn't want to risk taking him on and having him taken away just because my way of managing him would have been different to theirs.

Not saying they don't do an amazing job just wish it could have been more flexible!

 

[rhino]

Not saying they don't do an amazing job just wish it could have been more flexible!

Was it not a case of having to have stabling available in case of injury/illness, rather than stating the pony had to be stabled? I think that is a fairly common clause for rescue centres.

 

[honetpot]

I think in this current climate, castrating colts should be a piority and the charities should organise/subsidise clinics to have this done. I will not donate while their main mission seems to hang on to them for as long as possible.
I think the donkey sanctury has over 2,000 donkeys. A neighbour of mine could not adopt because she can have only one,( think of a child surrogate, she practically lives in the stable) but will take her money when she dies. So she went and bought one from a dealer. In effect they have created a market.

 

[leah_x]

No but what you have said makes it seem that way. Do you not think staff who work there have favourites? And a lot of them have ex owners so cannot be PTS just beacuse they need more room.
Those horses are there because people WANT to care for them, not because they want to give them some grass for five minutes before the next horse comes along.

 

[rhino]

No but what you have said makes it seem that way. Do you not think staff who work there have favourites? And a lot of them have ex owners so cannot be PTS just beacuse they need more room.
Those horses are there because people WANT to care for them, not because they want to give them some grass for five minutes before the next horse comes along.

So what's your solution then? How do we ever improve the situation in this country without putting an animal down?

No-one here wants horses to be pts. Realistically though, there is no other option, the only decision is which horses.

 

[guesstimation]

Rhino: Possibly though stabling was available to me, I think they wanted it stabled during the bad midge times and weren't happy if I tried to manage it another way just in case it flared up. Think.he found a home anyway as kept an eye on.if he was on the site lol

 

[SamanthaUK]

The solution is fundraising and rehoming.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/296183327095528/

Unfortunately, there's always going to be mistreated horses and some will be pts. There is no stopping that.
So instead of arguing why don't we all get together and help these charities rather than talking about horses being pts?

Just my thoughts..

 

[Rowreach]

The solution is fundraising and rehoming.

And education. I am not suggesting that a cull of those horses who would not, for whatever reason, have a viable quality of life, should be a permanent solution (although it should be for those animals which are on the brink at the time of "rescue") - what is needed is a long term view where the number of horses in need of charitable assistance is reduced, forever. And that comes from responsible breeding, responsible horse ownership, and the responsible actions of those centres which are receiving these horses through their doors.

 

[TGM]

The solution is fundraising and rehoming.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/296183327095528/

Unfortunately, there's always going to be mistreated horses and some will be pts. There is no stopping that.
So instead of arguing why don't we all get together and help these charities rather than talking about horses being pts?

Just my thoughts..

That's a great idea and very laudable, but the stark truth is that if this current economic downturn continues, then people are going to have less money to give to animal charities (however much fundraising is done), whilst at the same time, more animals are going to be abandoned and neglected because owners don't have the funds to care for them. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to realise that less funds going to the charities whilst more animals needing their care, has the potential to create a big financial deficit. It is something that needs to be talked about and discussed now, before the situation becomes critical.

 

[sprite1978]

it would be very irresponsible of us to re-home a pony without the relevant home checks being done, also people who live far away often just want the pony without even meeting it!

It wouldnt be expensive to set up a network of volunteer "home check" inspectors. And I`m sure there would be many takers. - even better if the charities could agree to share resources to this end.

On another point, would a dramatic increase in horses available for rehoming kill the private sales market? Why buy when you can have one free? Would this then lead to more horses being abandoned because the owners cant sell? Its a visciuos cycle.

The only way is to somehow control breeding levels, and reduce current numbers. By a cull if necessary.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Until the people who throw sub standard mares in with the first coloured stallion they can find STOP churning out these unwanted, badly put together animals, humane destruction is the ONLY way forward.
When nicely put together animals who have a useful life are ending up in the countrys rehoming centres, it tells you something!
Its time these "breeders" were held accountable.....

Agreed! I am just sick to death of seeing in foal mares or mares with foals at foot for sale. We are not just talking about the over production of horses and ponies by what some consider to be an ethnic minority though.
I looked on preloved as I check the site virtually every day and there was another mare listed who has been covered by a stallion being sold by someone not that far away according to the mileage. I think this seller is a dealer judging by adverts I have seen all throughout last year. I also know of a nice coloured who was sold which was supposed to have sentimental attachments to the owner, not so much that they still sold it though eh?
A few months later after supposedly having found a good home it for sale again at a higher cost. Admittedly looks in better nick now than before and I think has been gelded but all the same why buy the bugger if you're going to sell it on again so quickly. Little mite is not even 2!
These are the sort of people who should be targetted also when we speak about over production of stock that will most likely never be a world beater.
Also more people should take responsibility for their own horses if they can no longer look after them.
Time and time again, listings of oldies or some even not so old, being sold as can't be ridden etc, losing land blah de blah. If you really cannot look after the thing, or are wanting a horse than can be ridden and can't afford to do both then do the right thing and have it pts!
Not just pass your problem onto someone else. Yes the horse may get a good home but the person who just rehomed your horse may well have rehomed one from a rescue centre. So essentially your horse that you no longer have time or money for or can't be arsed to look after the bugger when it becomes unrideable or old has just taken the place of another horse waiting to leave a centre. Now because that other horse is not now leaving the centre an animal in dire need of rescuing could now be forced to suffer because it has no rescue place to go to.
There is always a knock on effect in the horse world and people who think otherwise are just kidding themselves.
I think there is a time and a place for horses to be destroyed and some would indeed be better off.
Horse owners should take more responsibilties for their actions.

 

[cbmcts]

No but what you have said makes it seem that way. Do you not think staff who work there have favourites? And a lot of them have ex owners so cannot be PTS just beacuse they need more room.
Those horses are there because people WANT to care for them, not because they want to give them some grass for five minutes before the next horse comes along.

Of course they do and I really admire the people who work and have to deal with the animals at the sanctuaries - I don't know how they cope with what they see and do on a daily basis. I also believe (hard as it may sound) that if you have handed your animal to a charity to care for at their expense and with their facilities, staff and time that as an EX owner you no longer have any say in their future or welfare.

Sadly,all the rescues are struggling financially plus with a lack of space and fewer homes coming forward for the horses they already have in - also the problem of loan horses returning due to their loaners lacking cash to keep them - so policies IMHO have to change. Rationing of resources seems to be the only viable way forward for the foreseeable future which would mean that PTS could become an option a lot sooner then it does now. The alternative is for charities to lock the gates (so to speak) and try and wait until the economy improves. What happens to the horses that need help NOW or in the next few years? Even ones that just need a hand up temporarily and have a future with a job and a value to a new owner? I have to admit that I would find it very difficult to do if I was them but I don't think it can be avoided. Remember, the people that deserve blame are the ones who didn't consider whether these poor animals should be bred in the first place and the others who let them get into a state that needed the intervention of a charity - they are the ones who should have taken responsibility in the first place.

I said this before and I'll say it again - if the owner who has had the fun and the work from a horse in it's youth and health cannot be bothered to give and pay for that horse's retirement, that owner is being very selfish and unrealistic if they think that anyone will or should do it for them. By all means, loan them as a companion, retire them to cheaper livery but please don't pass them on just to avoid having to make a hard decision. That job of calling the vet, hunt or knacker man belongs to the person who they served, who owes them that at least rather than an uncertain future.An old fashioned view certainly but I won't apologise for it.

We all know that these are expensive animals to keep who need a fair bit of time and space, that the bills can rise to scary figures if they injure or age. This shouldn't be news to any owner - I know s**t happens, that things don't go to plan, that life has unexpected, unwelcome challenges (been there, done that!) but you decided to originally get this animal so it should be your responsibility to decide in a realistic, clear headed fashion what to do when you can't keep them any longer for whatever reason. If they have a value to their next owner, great. The problem is when they don't - that is when you have to face facts and sometimes put their welfare in the longer term over your guilt and upset. Nobody said it was easy...

 

[leah_x]

Or maybe get a group of people together to educate people if that's everyones solution. In my opinion PTS shouldn't even be considered. I certainly wouldn't want to give money to a charity who I knew might go and put horses to sleep just because there are too many.

 

[touchstone]

Of course they do and I really admire the people who work and have to deal with the animals at the sanctuaries - I don't know how they cope with what they see and do on a daily basis. I also believe (hard as it may sound) that if you have handed your animal to a charity to care for at their expense and with their facilities, staff and time that as an EX owner you no longer have any say in their future or welfare.

Sadly,all the rescues are struggling financially plus with a lack of space and fewer homes coming forward for the horses they already have in - also the problem of loan horses returning due to their loaners lacking cash to keep them - so policies IMHO have to change. Rationing of resources seems to be the only viable way forward for the foreseeable future which would mean that PTS could become an option a lot sooner then it does now. The alternative is for charities to lock the gates (so to speak) and try and wait until the economy improves. What happens to the horses that need help NOW or in the next few years? Even ones that just need a hand up temporarily and have a future with a job and a value to a new owner? I have to admit that I would find it very difficult to do if I was them but I don't think it can be avoided. Remember, the people that deserve blame are the ones who didn't consider whether these poor animals should be bred in the first place and the others who let them get into a state that needed the intervention of a charity - they are the ones who should have taken responsibility in the first place.

I said this before and I'll say it again - if the owner who has had the fun and the work from a horse in it's youth and health cannot be bothered to give and pay for that horse's retirement, that owner is being very selfish and unrealistic if they think that anyone will or should do it for them. By all means, loan them as a companion, retire them to cheaper livery but please don't pass them on just to avoid having to make a hard decision. That job of calling the vet, hunt or knacker man belongs to the person who they served, who owes them that at least rather than an uncertain future.An old fashioned view certainly but I won't apologise for it.

We all know that these are expensive animals to keep who need a fair bit of time and space, that the bills can rise to scary figures if they injure or age. This shouldn't be news to any owner - I know s**t happens, that things don't go to plan, that life has unexpected, unwelcome challenges (been there, done that!) but you decided to originally get this animal so it should be your responsibility to decide in a realistic, clear headed fashion what to do when you can't keep them any longer for whatever reason. If they have a value to their next owner, great. The problem is when they don't - that is when you have to face facts and sometimes put their welfare in the longer term over your guilt and upset. Nobody said it was easy...

Excellent post!

 

[Fantasy_World]

Excellent post!

Agreed!!!

 

[leah_x]

EX owners have a say it in because it is usually people who have lost a relative due to illness & don't have a clue about horses. Its not their fault they are there, but they done the right thing. That's why they don't PTS horses with an owner without giving a valid and genuine reason. Imagine their disgust with sending the animal to the charity if it ended up being killed because they wanted to put a younger more deserving horse in its place..

 

[SamanthaUK]

Really wish I was a millionaire, I'd rescue as many as I could.

 

[touchstone]

Or maybe get a group of people together to educate people if that's everyones solution. In my opinion PTS shouldn't even be considered. I certainly wouldn't want to give money to a charity who I knew might go and put horses to sleep just because there are too many.

But the fact remains that there ARE too many and insufficient homes, so do you leave horses to abndonment, neglect and suffering, or make a difficult decision that those that are approaching the end of their lives or are ill or need long term (expensive) specialist care are pts?

 

[rhino]

EX owners have a say it in because it is usually people who have lost a relative due to illness & don't have a clue about horses. Its not their fault they are there, but they done the right thing. That's why they don't PTS horses with an owner without giving a valid and genuine reason. Imagine their disgust with sending the animal to the charity if it ended up being killed because they wanted to put a younger more deserving horse in its place..

I'll ask again, what is your solution?

Too many horses
Not enough homes
Not enough money

 

[SamanthaUK]

We could all help them out..

 

[rhino]

We could all help them out..

I think most people here work pretty hard in order to keep their own horses and donate what and when they can. It is not and never will be enough.

I feel there is an awful lot of naivety about the extent of the problem to be honest Go to some auctions, see what is passing through the ring.. Look at the situation with 'breeds' such as the dartmoor hill pony.... Or 'Franch' rescues..... Work as or with rescue centre personnel. It is heartbreaking but to suggest that somehow these horses can all be saved shows a real lack of understanding.

 

[Rowreach]

I think most people here work pretty hard in order to keep their own horses and donate what and when they can. It is not and never will be enough.

I feel there is an awful lot of naivety about the extent of the problem to be honest Go to some auctions, see what is passing through the ring.. Look at the situation with 'breeds' such as the dartmoor hill pony.... Or 'Franch' rescues..... Work as or with rescue centre personnel. It is heartbreaking but to suggest that somehow these horses can all be saved shows a real lack of understanding.

"like", and a lot more tactfully put than what was going through my mind.

 

[SamanthaUK]

I think most people here work pretty hard in order to keep their own horses and donate what and when they can. It is not and never will be enough.

I feel there is an awful lot of naivety about the extent of the problem to be honest Go to some auctions, see what is passing through the ring.. It is heartbreaking but to suggest that somehow these horses can all be saved shows a real lack of understanding.

I guess so. I've been to two horse auctions and my heart almost stopped. They looked so depressed and ill. I really wanted to 'rescue' them all.
I understand that people who own horses have to care for their own and i'm so grateful that they do put bits and bobs aside for charities.

I didn't mean for my comment to be offensive or naive. So sorry for that!

 

[touchstone]

Helping the charities is one thing, but how many donations does it take to pay for just one extra horse? In the current economic climate with lowered wages and rising costs I think most people are struggling to pay mortgages, put food on the table never mind looking after their own animals. Sadly charitable donations are the first thing to stop out of most budgets when the going gets tough. I know I certainly wouldn't contemplate taking on another horse at the moment.

I donate to charities where I can, but the current crisis is beyond raising a few hundred pounds here and there, although I'm sure every penny is welcomed and much needed.

 

[Always Henesy]

I think most people here work pretty hard in order to keep their own horses and donate what and when they can. It is not and never will be enough.

I feel there is an awful lot of naivety about the extent of the problem to be honest Go to some auctions, see what is passing through the ring.. Look at the situation with 'breeds' such as the dartmoor hill pony.... Or 'Franch' rescues..... Work as or with rescue centre personnel. It is heartbreaking but to suggest that somehow these horses can all be saved shows a real lack of understanding.

Like ^^^^^
You are the voice of reason

 

[rhino]

I didn't mean for my comment to be offensive or naive. So sorry for that!

They weren't You come across as really passionate about welfare which is lovely! We really do need people who want to make a difference and the optimism is refreshing

Some of us have just been around a bit longer, dealt personally with some really heartbreaking cases and are possibly a little cynical.. Or realistic, sometimes I'm not too sure which!

 

[SamanthaUK]

Thanks Rhino. I am so passionate about the welfare of horses. It sickens me when horses, or animals in general, are unwanted and abused, and just 'given up on'. I really want to make a difference.
But if I ever got a horse, I know for sure that I would give everything for that horse and probably wouldn't donate or fundraise as much as I do or want to now.

 

[touchstone]

I don't have a horse to pay and care for so I can't even pretend to know how much it all costs. I'll do my best to raise money for horses in the charities.
I didn't comment to sound like i was having a go, I didn't mean it in that way!

Ah it's okay, I didn't take it as you having a go, just you wanting to help horses but as Rhino has said, you really can't help them all and the line has to be drawn somewhere and hard choices made.

 

[SamanthaUK]

Ah it's okay, I didn't take it as you having a go, just you wanting to help horses but as Rhino has said, you really can't help them all and the line has to be drawn somewhere and hard choices made.

I guess so, it's just so sad that so many horses are abused and unwanted. It really makes me feel down and I really want to help them all out.

WHEN I buy myself a cob (that's what I want) i'll care for it so much and I'll never let anyone hurt it or abuse it.

It makes me so angry when people dump horses. I know there are reasons, eg, out of money, no space, no time. But just to dump them? It's horrible.

 

[Spudlet]

If enough people donate small amounts it does make a difference.

But that doesn't mean there aren't hard choices to be made. At the end of the day, some horses will not come right no matter what is done - they are just too damaged by what has happened to them in their past, and in those cases, PTS can be the only thing to do. Perhaps in future that decision will need to be taken sooner for some horses.

People that work in rescues are not automatons, they feel for the horses they take in, even if their attitudes are very practical - there is still emotion and dare I say it, passion there. It is always sad to see a horse that has been comprehensively screwed up.

Education is important to try and prevent welfare problems before they happen, as is people looking for horses considering rehoming one as opposed to buying.