Ok, following on from the biting tongue thread!

[PapaFrita]

DieselDog said almost exactly what I was going to!

I think most people who have spent any time with horses (not just riding, but caring for them, watching them etc) develop a kind of 'horse sense' which is basically common sense but sometimes repackaged as NH/IH, etc. There's nothing wrong with this; it can certainly help anyone who is inexperienced or has hit a wall where their horse is concerned and can't work past it. If I were in such a situation I would, for the sake of my horse, certainly get in touch with someone and my first choice (purely from what I've read about his methods and read on HHO) would be Richard Maxwell.
What I really don't like is when one 'group' or another claims to have the 'right' way to back/train/fix problems with horses. I especially don't like it when they sneer at the rest of us who won't hesitate to smack a horse if it bites (even though it actually works and they never do it again), or those who insist that our horses must be unhappy or 'suppressed', and must be suffering dreadfully over those jumps despite the pricked ears and bright eyes...
Basically I think all decent horse people practice NH/IH daily without even realising, but I despise the evangelical zeal of some of the devotees.

 

[cosmo_sam]

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But I also think that they are not necessarily a cure for all problems.

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IH/NH, whatever you want to call it, is something that shouldn't be about "sorting out naughty horses" - it's a mind-set, it's a training/teaching method which anyone with any understanding of horses, should know and be doing; from Day 1.....and most trainers with any calibre, already do.
It has been placed into the public's hands, almost being proposed as a "last resort" - why?

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You are so right, it's the concepts and the mindset that is the point. I feel fortunate to have been able to devote a weekt to this, but tbh it is actually quite a big and tiring thing to do.

From watching novice type owners I've seen that they find it much easier to listen to the "whack em bash em - they're just trying it on to be naughty" brigade because that is easier to make sense of (in human logic that is)

Stepping back and thinking deeper is not easy.

This is also I think why often people get into thinking about these things at the "last resort" stage. Only then are some people willing to open their minds.

It would be much easier for all concerned to get a feeling for these concepts before a problem arises but I'm not sure how you could market that with real value?

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I do have to say though; one thing I do like about their marketing strategy with some of these people, is that they have opened the door for many people (without horsey-backgrounds) who are looking for a way to help them understand horses a bit more. Generally the books or videos or clinics are run in a manner which is easy for the general public to grasp......and yes I do think that this has to be a good thing for people with less understanding but with plenty of common sense.

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Yes exactly and tbh, you're the first "lifetime horsewoman" I've heard place a value on that.

Many say "we've been doing that for years and it's these silly novices that are gullible etc". I think it's better for the novices (and mainly their horses) for them to have somewhere to tap into what the successful horsemen/women have discovered through experience.

JMO though

 

[Tinypony]

I don't think the trainers see what they do as being for last resort horses, that is something the students sometimes imply. The only reference I've heard to a horse being last resort is in some Monty demos where it is said to justify the use of some particular gadget. Personally I'm not sure that a demo is the right place for a horse in that sad situation.
I think if you spoke to most natural horse trainers they would see it as a total approach to horsemanship, and one that should complement what people like to do with their horses. That could be hacking, competeing, young horse starting or whatever. I have yet to hear any trainer promote their methods as the only way to deal with horses, they tend to just offer it up as a possible alternative.
Having said that, it really annoys me when you hear a trainer or a student imply that the "old days" were when horses were treated badly and that they offer something more enlightened. It's just not true is it? But to be fair, only a few seem to imply that.

 

[IsabelleJ]

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I do have to say though; one thing I do like about their marketing strategy with some of these people, is that they have opened the door for many people (without horsey-backgrounds) who are looking for a way to help them understand horses a bit more. Generally the books or videos or clinics are run in a manner which is easy for the general public to grasp......and yes I do think that this has to be a good thing for people with less understanding but with plenty of common sense.

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Yes, for example I have seen reviews of Kelly Marks' books as being relatively accessible. The good thing about such methods becoming 'fashionable' is that it means a lot of people who would not have heard of them will possibly pick them up and try. And hopefully not all of these people will be using them as a last resort on their horses!

Isabelle