ok thoughts? WARNING GRAPHIC!

binkymerlin

binkymerlin

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again WARNING GRAPHIC inside view of the horses foot!!! i came across this whilst trying to educate myself further in hoof construction, i have lamenetics and would like to know more about what goes on in the horses hoof. I found this very interesting and abit :eek: I would like to know what you all think as it was a huge eye opener for me to actually see what happens when a horse bears weight on the hoof. please ignore my bad grammar {there will be lots} i have alot going thru my mind atm:o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ayEJacuoJ7I&feature=related
 
J&C I think you're right, it does make sense that the whole of the hoof should be in contact with the ground, particularly as the frog absorbs impact. Don't know how that works with shoes on?

One of these videos was posted here a few weeks ago. Really interesting stuff, makes you think. I was looking at hoofprints for a while afterwards, looking for a frog indent :rolleyes:
 
very interesting!
i have never seen a shod horses foot with the frog in contact with the ground, unless on a soft sufrace.
 
J&C yes correctly shod feet allow the frog to touch the ground, all my shod horses in the past had this.

I've never understood the barefoot argument that a frog should be in contact with the ground and with shoes it isn't because this is un-true.

Really interesting video though.
 
My horse is barefoot - it's a Thoroughbred and they're meant to have terrible feet. His feet are just fine!! It's good to see that because I was thinking of shoeing him in front as he seems to have really sensitive feet on gravel and stony stuff but I think he just needs to man up a bit as he has been off work a while!!! :D
 
Insightful!
I have a barefoot lami prone pony and a shod horse, good to know. Will be analysing those hoofprints tomorrow, I'm confident that I have the desired frog position though! My farrier is the bizz :P
 
Surely if that is the case that all shod horses aren't weight bearing on the right parts then most of them would be lame, if that happens to their hooves?
 
the old age argument of barefoot versus shod. you have to treat each as an individual. and the quality of your farrier. most lamanitics are bad management, the other are predisposed due to medical conditions(cushions.ESPM/insulin resistance) there is no right or wrong you have to do what suits your horse, his living environment, his diet, his age, his foot condition.
 
i too wil be looking at hoof prints tomorrow, i may even wet abit of ground (its gone really hard) to see how my horse is using his hooves. The vid has really got me thinking as it makes sense and i can actualy see whats goin on. But i suppose its a catch 22? I have lots of questions for my farrier now AND alot of reasearch to do!
 
Hey
I did a lot of studing into hooves when my boy took laminities afew years ago! Shoes normaly add more grip and protection to the hoof wall, the white line and the bulbs of the heel also help prevent sole bruising, and yes the frog is used to absorb concussion but on that impact its also used as a pump to circulate the blood flow back up the leg. Which is why laminitis can also be due to concussive forces. So now as all farriers have to be registered your horses feet should be safe in their hands!
Sorry but im just back after having a baby so I'm studying as much as I can and love the chance to recap!
 
crazyhorse4727 said:
and yes the frog is used to absorb concussion but on that impact its also used as a pump to circulate the blood flow back up the leg.
Click to expand...
I'm not an expert or professional but I thought the whole hoof contracted and expanded during motion (pressure and release on the ground)that was the main pump. I believe the frog is also a sort of spring that allows the hoof to flex enabling the 'spread' of the hoof on full weight bearing in the stride and so heels can cope with uneven surfaces for eg.

Hooves are actually very dynamic not 'fixed' at all.
 
The only elastic areas of the foot are the frog, bars, plantar cushion and lateral cartilages all help to absorb concussion and disperse it upwards and outwards. And that's a direct quote from the bhs manual, as the know a lot more than most.
 
Ok

"We now know that during weightbearing the pressure within the digital cushion actually decreases so that this long-held theory cannot be correct. despite what is said in many farriery and veterinary texts. When the horse puts his foot to the floor at the beginning of the stance phase, his weight his weight is transmitted down the limb to the coffin joint. The pedal bone is attached to the inside of the hoof by the laminae, and the weight bearing down from the coffin joint pushes the pedal bone downward torwards the floor. Because the laminar attachments are to the front and the side of the pedal bone, the back of the pedal bone is largely unsupported. This means that the back of the pedal bone can be pushed down further than the front, and it rotates backwards.

This creates a greater force at the heels and because of the relatively flexible attachment of the hoof at the heels, they can spread out more than the hoof can at the toe. This expansion of the hoof allows some of the concussive forces to be absorbed. As the heels spread out, the sole loses its concavity, allowing the soft tissues within the foot to spread out. The frog drops with the sole until it contacts the ground, where function to act as a cushion to prevent the total drop of the sole and, as a result, restrict the spread of the heels.

Thus it can be seen that, contrary to popular belief, pressure against the frog during the stance phase is not a pre-requisite for hoof expansion."

An extract from "No Foot, No Horse" Gail Williams BA(Hons) PhD and Martin Deacon FWCF

I guess it depends on the you look at it. I think this is a really interesting point. By my understanding, the shod hoof should have the frog in contact with the floor when weightbaring. The hoof print in the video did not show this. So surely yes, that was bad for the hoof, but it was bad shoeing, yes? GOOD shoeing shouldn't have these problems.

I agree, I think we all would, bad shoeing is a welfare issue, but is it not a little far to say all shoeing is a welfare issue and should be banned. Afterall, in this video it is being assumed that the frog of a shod foot will not drop down or touch the ground unless I've missed something.

Very interesting. I stand to be corrected of course. I'm sure I will be ;)

J&C
 
'In a correctly shod foot the weight of the body falls upon the wall and frog- which should be permitted to make contact with the ground at shoe level. When only the wall receives the weight, the buffering effect of the digital cushion, the large pad of fibrous tissue which overlies the frog, is lost. The result is greater strain on higher structures of the leg, such as the fetlock, cannon and tendons. Limb circulation also suffers'
Hoof structure and movement
Smythe mrcvs, goody b.sc. Ph.d., gray mvb mrcvs.
In me this is a clear outline of good shoeing and the dangers of bad!
 
ok guys some very good point made. This is what i like about forums, you get to read different peoples point of view. i found this and would like to see what you make of it http://www.thenakedhoof.com.au/html/article-WhyShoeingBadIdea.htm just for thoughts what would we do IF it was full on proved that shoeing was bad and cruel? we ask our horses to travel on different grounds, jump ect.. so what would we do or put on their feet? im just fantasising obvs i would do the very best by my horse and we are very lucky to have a super farrier BUT what would happen? sorry for the ramble thoughts are travelling faster than fingers :-)
 
As someone else pointed out earlier, the frog, amongst other things, helps with 'venous return', i.e. return of the blood in the veins back up the leg. Unlike arteries, veins don't have muscular walls and so rely on the muscles around them, as well as the action of the heart, to keep the circulation going (which is why you're supposed to contract your calf muscles periodically when on long haul flights to try to prevent DVT). Because the horse has no muscles in the distal (lower part) of the leg to contract and aid blood flow in the veins, the frog contacts the ground and acts as a pump. V important for correct circulation and avoiding fluid accumulation in the lower leg.
 
crazyhorse4727 said:
Yes because an organisation which makes horse welfare their job wouldn't see fit to keep up to date!
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. But some people still think they they are the enlightened ones.

I don't think you can accurately simulate what's going on in a foot by cutting it in half, then cutting it off the leg and pressing (what looks like a piece of chipboard worktop) wood up and down on it. Hardly scientific is it.
 
misterjay said:
Forgive me if I'm being dense, but following this theory, why does the pedal bone sink in founder cases?
Click to expand...
The pedal bone is held in place by the laminiae, which are lots of finger like projections which interlock to create a very tight bond (which holds the weight of your horse). In laminitis these bonds fall apart and rotation or dropping of the pedal bone occurs (extremely painful disease). If the pain is not controlled quickly enough with the weight of your horse pushing down, the horse compensates by trying to ease the pressure, this can lead to the tendon running down the back of the leg contracting and causing the pedal bone to rotate or without the support of the hoof wall the pedal bone can tip downwards. Without rapid treatment or if the horse doesn’t respond to treatment the pedal bone can drop out of the sole of the foot or rotate beyond repairable damage (founder).
 
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