CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
I think it's absolute b*llshit tbh...
OK - who hates parelli?
- Thread starter SirenaXVI
- Start date
Nudibranch
Well-Known Member
Well Ive mentioned this before but my last horse came from a Parelli owner and when we went to pick her up they tried to load her into our box using Parelli and that carrot stick - what a load of rubbish. I can say with certainty that had made her a bad loader as I knew the previous owner, and prior to being Parelli-ed she was great.
Needless to say, a few minutes of common sense and a request to stop the continual flicking with that overpriced whip, got her into the box. Grrrr.
Needless to say, a few minutes of common sense and a request to stop the continual flicking with that overpriced whip, got her into the box. Grrrr.
ChocoCornflake
Well-Known Member
Id agree its just common sense horsemanship, repackaged and given jazzy new terminology for those owners who are actually afraid / unable to ride.
Exactly, look on Project Horses and the majority of them are Parelli/NH cases, who ''must go to a Parelli home''! Makes you wonder..
Trouble is, there are a lot of people out there who may not have much horse sense eg due to being a new rider, and are buying into it because they have seen it on the tv/in magazines and think it may help with their 'nutty' horse which would probably be fine with a more experienced owner.
The other day, I was so fed up with my horse spooking at various monsters in the arena, like the mounting block, i filled the school with obstacles, and in about half an hour I had him walking over tarpaulin and past flapping bags, with me on him! Needless to say there were no carrot sticks or long flapping ropes present, just some common sense horsemanship!
Exactly, look on Project Horses and the majority of them are Parelli/NH cases, who ''must go to a Parelli home''! Makes you wonder..
Trouble is, there are a lot of people out there who may not have much horse sense eg due to being a new rider, and are buying into it because they have seen it on the tv/in magazines and think it may help with their 'nutty' horse which would probably be fine with a more experienced owner.
The other day, I was so fed up with my horse spooking at various monsters in the arena, like the mounting block, i filled the school with obstacles, and in about half an hour I had him walking over tarpaulin and past flapping bags, with me on him! Needless to say there were no carrot sticks or long flapping ropes present, just some common sense horsemanship!
henryhorn
Well-Known Member
Partoow's reply says it all for me, so nothing to add except I'm yet to meet a parelli trained horse that hasn't had issues about something or other that parelli hasn't fixed.
Tinkerbee
Well-Known Member
It scares me.
PapaFrita
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I don't hate parelli as basic principles are good horsemanship
I do though hate the commercialism of NH/IH/Parelli in general and the seemingly 'strict rules' (since when does every horse follow the same behavioural rule book
) and the unfortunate holier than thou attitude a fair proportion of the 'followers' seem to adopt.
[/ QUOTE ]
You said it exactly right! Some Parelli devotees are soooo evangelical in their attitude they're like blinking Scientologists! "If you don't do Parelli/NH/IH you're CRUEL and your horse HATES you..." I'm not making this up!!
Someone said it was pre-packaged common sense. It IS... to a point; the basic principles are fine, but it doesn't seem to teach people when their horses are bored or fed up or scared
I don't hate parelli as basic principles are good horsemanship
I do though hate the commercialism of NH/IH/Parelli in general and the seemingly 'strict rules' (since when does every horse follow the same behavioural rule book
[/ QUOTE ]
You said it exactly right! Some Parelli devotees are soooo evangelical in their attitude they're like blinking Scientologists! "If you don't do Parelli/NH/IH you're CRUEL and your horse HATES you..." I'm not making this up!!
Someone said it was pre-packaged common sense. It IS... to a point; the basic principles are fine, but it doesn't seem to teach people when their horses are bored or fed up or scared
ChestnutMonty
Well-Known Member
I dislike the fact that some people dont fully understand what they are doing and why they do it.
For instance a woman at our stables bought a baby racehorse of the track, which was a bit nappy and one day out hacking it spooked at something so she made it walk backwards down a very steep track!
Why would you make a horse who isn't forward thinking, go backwards?
Surely you are just encouraging it to nap and go backwards?!?
PS. i agree with the chocolate biscuit theory!
For instance a woman at our stables bought a baby racehorse of the track, which was a bit nappy and one day out hacking it spooked at something so she made it walk backwards down a very steep track!
Why would you make a horse who isn't forward thinking, go backwards?
Surely you are just encouraging it to nap and go backwards?!?
PS. i agree with the chocolate biscuit theory!
the watcher
Well-Known Member
I have very mixed views. I am all for learning with horses, and I don't believe we ever stop learning, so anything that encourages people to watch their horses and build a relationship with them is a positive IMO.
The only part I have concerns about is the belief that Parelli can turn a nervous or inexperienced person into a confident horseperson with a confident well rounded horse - nothing other than one to one training can achieve this. DVDs have their place but they are no replacement for a good instructor in whatever method you chose. Worst still if this training is being diluted by somebody else who thinks they know what they are doing, and are passing this on second hand.
What ever training method you chose there will be bad instructors out there, I recently watched one who is apparently BHS trained that I just wanted to pull off the horse - so I certainly wouldn't reserve all my hatred for Parelli.
The only part I have concerns about is the belief that Parelli can turn a nervous or inexperienced person into a confident horseperson with a confident well rounded horse - nothing other than one to one training can achieve this. DVDs have their place but they are no replacement for a good instructor in whatever method you chose. Worst still if this training is being diluted by somebody else who thinks they know what they are doing, and are passing this on second hand.
What ever training method you chose there will be bad instructors out there, I recently watched one who is apparently BHS trained that I just wanted to pull off the horse - so I certainly wouldn't reserve all my hatred for Parelli.
silversox
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's absolute b*llshit tbh...
[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't agree, more.
Like I've said many times before on this forum: I witnessed Neil Pye, one of the so-called Parelli 'gods', hit a horse twice across it's head with his famous orange stick because it wouldn't back-up when the rope was waggled at it. Needless to say that horse is now one of the many 'parelli-shy' horses around the country, now.
I'm often tempted when I come across their trade-stand at some of the big shows to make my feelings known to the brain-washed young girls working there, but I chicken out!! What would you do if you came across their stand and they tried to shove a leaflet in your hand? I'd be interested to hear??
I think it's absolute b*llshit tbh...
[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't agree, more.
Like I've said many times before on this forum: I witnessed Neil Pye, one of the so-called Parelli 'gods', hit a horse twice across it's head with his famous orange stick because it wouldn't back-up when the rope was waggled at it. Needless to say that horse is now one of the many 'parelli-shy' horses around the country, now.
I'm often tempted when I come across their trade-stand at some of the big shows to make my feelings known to the brain-washed young girls working there, but I chicken out!! What would you do if you came across their stand and they tried to shove a leaflet in your hand? I'd be interested to hear??
shadowboy
Well-Known Member
I really hate these kind of debates because I too was very sceptical of NH/IH and parelli. I took on my little mare from PH Website after her owner called me saying she didnt know what to do with the mare as she was going to be shot! So i drove 3 hours over to see the mare who was sweet, kind but sharp and confused. No one was able to ride her- who knows why? Soshe was delivered to me a week later. Now I never bought any parelli equiptment- just used a lungeline and headcollar plus a showing cane (not too beat her with) and within 5 months of having her we competed at Writtle college in dressage and came 5th- you guys all said well done- but would you have done if I told you a lot of the methods were parelli methods? probably not. No I never bounced a ball at her, no I never made her fearful. But I mixed Parelli into my own style and worked with her- no pressure on her or me- we just spent time together. I think what parelli does do is make you spend TIME with your horse- how many of us spend over an hour a day with their horse - not riding honestly? well for a month we spent 1-2 hours just touching each other 5 days a week, desensitising her of having certain areas touched etc. I dont like how commercial it is- and I dont like how strict its rules can be- but if you look past it, its principles are good-and used with common sense it can turn horses round who did not click with our traditional methods. I do not advocate it yet, I will not slate it.
MagicMelon
Well-Known Member
I also agree with Santa_Claus about the commercialism part of it.
I love the idea and support anything with a gentler approach. I think it does have its place. However, what I dont like is the fact its American, and you KNOW it is if you know what I mean! And I dislike the attitude some parelli people think which is that their way is the ONLY way and somehow anybody who doesnt do parelli doesnt understand horses.
I love the idea and support anything with a gentler approach. I think it does have its place. However, what I dont like is the fact its American, and you KNOW it is if you know what I mean! And I dislike the attitude some parelli people think which is that their way is the ONLY way and somehow anybody who doesnt do parelli doesnt understand horses.
Gorgeous George
Well-Known Member
I don't hate parelli but I certainly don't like all the commercialism that goes with it, and the 'this is the way it must be done attitude'.
Having said that, I bought a book of general groundwork exercises and also Kelly Marks' books (I personally think she talks sense), and I spend some time each week with George doing groundwork stuff in the school. It is just simple stuff like making him move over, back up, turn, lower his head etc, walk past/through obstacles etc. as a novice owner it gives me more confidence, and hopefully him too and I hope he trusts me more. I just enjoy sometimes schooling from the ground and being with him!
Having said that, I bought a book of general groundwork exercises and also Kelly Marks' books (I personally think she talks sense), and I spend some time each week with George doing groundwork stuff in the school. It is just simple stuff like making him move over, back up, turn, lower his head etc, walk past/through obstacles etc. as a novice owner it gives me more confidence, and hopefully him too and I hope he trusts me more. I just enjoy sometimes schooling from the ground and being with him!
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think it's absolute b*llshit tbh...
[/ QUOTE ]
Really?
I can't say I hate it.......as has already been said a lot of the principles are based on common sense & good old fashioned horsemanship.
The problem with Parelli is that a huge proportion of those 'trying' to practice it aren't skilled at horsemanship & are using it as a last ditch attempt because all else has failed.
Of course it doesn't work for them..............nothing will because they simply aren't able to take on board that the horse doesn't really have any 'issues' or 'history', it just doesn't have any respect for them !!
There are a huge number of people who utilise so called natural horsemanship with an incredible effect - Richard Maxwell, Kelly Marks, Monty Roberts, & indeed Pat Parelli himself to name but a few. The difference is they are TRUE horsemen / women not people who have been to a demo / watched a video/ read a book, & thought " That looks easy - I'll try that on the lame ex-racehorse I was stupid enough to buy to learn to ride on"
Then to cap it all these woefully inadequate exponents of the art of natural horsemanship come on here & tell us how dreadful we all are for using whips & spurs instead of carrot sticks / magic wands or whatever. They are completely blinkered as to the effectivness of more 'traditional' methods which would have solved their problems before they'd even developed) they feel must be doing it right because 'it's natural' !!
I think it's more the attitudes of the people trying to emulate Pat Parelli & the like that wind everyone up - not the practices themselves!!
I think it's absolute b*llshit tbh...
[/ QUOTE ]
Really?
I can't say I hate it.......as has already been said a lot of the principles are based on common sense & good old fashioned horsemanship.
The problem with Parelli is that a huge proportion of those 'trying' to practice it aren't skilled at horsemanship & are using it as a last ditch attempt because all else has failed.
Of course it doesn't work for them..............nothing will because they simply aren't able to take on board that the horse doesn't really have any 'issues' or 'history', it just doesn't have any respect for them !!
There are a huge number of people who utilise so called natural horsemanship with an incredible effect - Richard Maxwell, Kelly Marks, Monty Roberts, & indeed Pat Parelli himself to name but a few. The difference is they are TRUE horsemen / women not people who have been to a demo / watched a video/ read a book, & thought " That looks easy - I'll try that on the lame ex-racehorse I was stupid enough to buy to learn to ride on"
Then to cap it all these woefully inadequate exponents of the art of natural horsemanship come on here & tell us how dreadful we all are for using whips & spurs instead of carrot sticks / magic wands or whatever. They are completely blinkered as to the effectivness of more 'traditional' methods which would have solved their problems before they'd even developed) they feel must be doing it right because 'it's natural' !!
I think it's more the attitudes of the people trying to emulate Pat Parelli & the like that wind everyone up - not the practices themselves!!
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well Ive mentioned this before but my last horse came from a Parelli owner and when we went to pick her up they tried to load her into our box using Parelli and that carrot stick - what a load of rubbish. I can say with certainty that had made her a bad loader as I knew the previous owner, and prior to being Parelli-ed she was great.
Needless to say, a few minutes of common sense and a request to stop the continual flicking with that overpriced whip, got her into the box. Grrrr.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've experienced that scenario at a show.
The bl**dy horse wouldn't load........I was waiting to lock up & go. I watched them faffing around it with tyhe wretched carrot stick for a liitle while...........they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
Well Ive mentioned this before but my last horse came from a Parelli owner and when we went to pick her up they tried to load her into our box using Parelli and that carrot stick - what a load of rubbish. I can say with certainty that had made her a bad loader as I knew the previous owner, and prior to being Parelli-ed she was great.
Needless to say, a few minutes of common sense and a request to stop the continual flicking with that overpriced whip, got her into the box. Grrrr.
[/ QUOTE ]
I've experienced that scenario at a show.
The bl**dy horse wouldn't load........I was waiting to lock up & go. I watched them faffing around it with tyhe wretched carrot stick for a liitle while...........they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
__Annie__
Well-Known Member
I don't hate it, I don't love it.
Whilst my mare was lame I completed the Level 1 groundwork with my mare as something fun to do .
I brought my pack, including halter, ropes etc, for under £200 and resold on ebay, minus the halter, ropes etc, for £160 so I feel I also got good value for money !
During 37 years with horses I still believe in keeping an open mind to different schools of thought.
I keep the stuff that works for my horse and store the rest as it may be useful for another horse.
I dislike people with a holier than thou attitude that are unwilling to look beyond the end of their nose
Whilst my mare was lame I completed the Level 1 groundwork with my mare as something fun to do .
I brought my pack, including halter, ropes etc, for under £200 and resold on ebay, minus the halter, ropes etc, for £160 so I feel I also got good value for money !
During 37 years with horses I still believe in keeping an open mind to different schools of thought.
I keep the stuff that works for my horse and store the rest as it may be useful for another horse.
I dislike people with a holier than thou attitude that are unwilling to look beyond the end of their nose
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
I don't understand why people get so wound up about this. Yes, you see lots of bad horsemanship from people waving orange stick, but let's be fair, you see a lot of bad horsemanship from people who don't. Bad loading at shows - when do you ever go to a show and there aren't people doing daft things trying to load? Every time you see someone handling a horse badly you don't try to find out who their trainer is so that you can blame them for the poor student do you? Sadly, people waving orange sticks make it rather clear who's system they are failing to follow well.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't really understand what it involves, but have seen a local lady hacking out and 'doing parelli' in her rope halter, and she just seems to slob along the road, sitting wonky and on a very well behaved steady horse - please correct me if this isn't what 'parelli' is.
[/ QUOTE ] I'll correct you. Parelli as Pat P teaches it isn't about that. It is about progressively producing a horse to the highest level - and that includes working properly and with self-carriage. But - I see riders slobbing along wonky just about every weekend, the tack they are using is irrelevant surely?
Evidence - this wasn't a Parelli clinic, it was with a teacher who has an "NH" approach, but rather different. The horse is, shock horror, wearing a bit.
[ QUOTE ]
Don't really understand what it involves, but have seen a local lady hacking out and 'doing parelli' in her rope halter, and she just seems to slob along the road, sitting wonky and on a very well behaved steady horse - please correct me if this isn't what 'parelli' is.
[/ QUOTE ] I'll correct you. Parelli as Pat P teaches it isn't about that. It is about progressively producing a horse to the highest level - and that includes working properly and with self-carriage. But - I see riders slobbing along wonky just about every weekend, the tack they are using is irrelevant surely?
Evidence - this wasn't a Parelli clinic, it was with a teacher who has an "NH" approach, but rather different. The horse is, shock horror, wearing a bit.
ajones
Well-Known Member
sorry just dont get it if you wanted your horse to sit why not get a dog ???
Partoow
Well-Known Member
I have yet to see a Parrelli horse working correctly. i.e in a way that manipulates the muscles to enable the horse to work the way in which we need it to. Thats point 1.
Secondly there is nothing 'natural' about getting on a horses back to work it. If you want that then leave it in a herd an take pictures.
Thirdly i have yet to see a parrelli rider with a good, balanced supple position. Ask anyone i train, when they understand more about their balance and posture then the horse responds in a more coherant way.[ that includes the picture above. the pelvis is rounded so the seat bones are appling pressure in a 'point pressire way' That may explain why that walk is lateral???There will be little or no transmission of the energy from behind to the hand. My point being stop making the horse do 'it' and start thinking more about the rider.
Get this Parrelli freaks 'A horse knows how to be a horse but you dont always know how to be a rider'
Thirdly i and other have said we dont deny that understanding the equine world makes us more effective horse people but you dont need to pray in the church of Pat Parrelli to get it!! or PAY for it!
Fourthly some of the most screwed up horses i have EVER had to deal with are those 'fiddled ' with using the Monty Roberts/ Pat Parrelli school of thought. To the point of being down right dangerous. A horse wants to feel confident in its leader its not complicated you dont need a carrot stick and string waving to achieve that.
Go to a proper riding school with well trained BHS staff and you will learn a thing or two .
Secondly there is nothing 'natural' about getting on a horses back to work it. If you want that then leave it in a herd an take pictures.
Thirdly i have yet to see a parrelli rider with a good, balanced supple position. Ask anyone i train, when they understand more about their balance and posture then the horse responds in a more coherant way.[ that includes the picture above. the pelvis is rounded so the seat bones are appling pressure in a 'point pressire way' That may explain why that walk is lateral???There will be little or no transmission of the energy from behind to the hand. My point being stop making the horse do 'it' and start thinking more about the rider.
Get this Parrelli freaks 'A horse knows how to be a horse but you dont always know how to be a rider'
Thirdly i and other have said we dont deny that understanding the equine world makes us more effective horse people but you dont need to pray in the church of Pat Parrelli to get it!! or PAY for it!
Fourthly some of the most screwed up horses i have EVER had to deal with are those 'fiddled ' with using the Monty Roberts/ Pat Parrelli school of thought. To the point of being down right dangerous. A horse wants to feel confident in its leader its not complicated you dont need a carrot stick and string waving to achieve that.
Go to a proper riding school with well trained BHS staff and you will learn a thing or two .
JM07
Well-Known Member
over-priced, over-marketed, over simplified and now , unfortunately, over-here............
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
Someone I know practices natural horsemanship, also teaches Pirelli; saw them out hacking the other day, horse in a halter, but she was wearing a body protector, I thought that quite amusing
Like a lot of things, its just common sense
Like a lot of things, its just common sense
Parkranger
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you seriously load someone elses horse without being asked? Blimey, I'd have killed you
can imagine how annoying it was to watch......
[ QUOTE ]
they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you seriously load someone elses horse without being asked? Blimey, I'd have killed you
can imagine how annoying it was to watch......
Murphy3
Well-Known Member
I watch the Parelli demos occasionally on Horse & Country TV and just feel "don't try this on your own at home, children". I'm very open minded about new ideas in anything but have a built-in mistrust of anyone using the hard sell or a surefire "method". It suggests that there is some short cut to training a horse and as we all know there isn't - its just a lot of work, patience and time.
I have found in all areas of my life that I learn most from seeking out an individual to teach me one to one - and sometimes have had to put a lot of effort into finding the right teachers. At the moment I have a wonderful instructor who used to work in a classically-orientated riding school. She has taught me to work my horse in hand as well as riding but her methods are the tried and tested traditional ones. She cares deeply for animals and I trust her with my self and my horse. And she doesn't cost the earth!
Having said that, the main thing I don't like about Parelli is his moustache!
I have found in all areas of my life that I learn most from seeking out an individual to teach me one to one - and sometimes have had to put a lot of effort into finding the right teachers. At the moment I have a wonderful instructor who used to work in a classically-orientated riding school. She has taught me to work my horse in hand as well as riding but her methods are the tried and tested traditional ones. She cares deeply for animals and I trust her with my self and my horse. And she doesn't cost the earth!
Having said that, the main thing I don't like about Parelli is his moustache!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Nope I don't hate Parelli.
I use parts of "Parelli" in the training of my cattle horses. I never would have classed these teachings as "Parelli" as these methods were all around long before PP made a name for himself - however there are no two ways about it that what I do with my horses and how they are worked, definitely has "Parelli" methods included in many aspects. My horses wouldn't be able to work cattle without it!
I don't have a problem with using the word "Parelli" simply as a name to give some of the things I do - but I still don't see it as "Parelli," just as a generic term given to the teaching of my horses about lassos, hanging latigos, cutting and sorting cattle, using the horses as packs, being able to have them not react to any of the "weird" things I ask them to do.
I take issue with the person who fundementally claimed that Parelli riders have no balance and basically cannot ride - you come over here and watch all of the wranglers and see what they are able to do with their horses and then tell me they cannot ride! Most people could only dream of being able to have a relationship with a horse such as they do. All wranglers do Parelli - they may not know that it now has a name and they may not know that the name these days is Parelli - but they do it regardless.
Take issue with useless riders by all means; there are PLENTY of those who come under the BHS umbrella, and in the UK there does appear to be many useless horsemen who come under the Parelli umbrella; so criticise these individuals if you wish, but to poo-poo a whole form of teaching (particularly as soooo many of these methods have been used for generations) seems blinkered to me.
Having said all that - I can't ever imagine me teaching any of my horses half of these things if I lived in England as I probably wouldn't see the relevance or need, since jumping was my thing there and not cattle sorting.
In a nutshell, it is NOT the name of what is done that should be run into the ground, it's the folks who don't have a clue about most aspects of good, grounded horsemanship who should be frowed upon - and they are not Parelli riders, they are just useless riders.
I use parts of "Parelli" in the training of my cattle horses. I never would have classed these teachings as "Parelli" as these methods were all around long before PP made a name for himself - however there are no two ways about it that what I do with my horses and how they are worked, definitely has "Parelli" methods included in many aspects. My horses wouldn't be able to work cattle without it!
I don't have a problem with using the word "Parelli" simply as a name to give some of the things I do - but I still don't see it as "Parelli," just as a generic term given to the teaching of my horses about lassos, hanging latigos, cutting and sorting cattle, using the horses as packs, being able to have them not react to any of the "weird" things I ask them to do.
I take issue with the person who fundementally claimed that Parelli riders have no balance and basically cannot ride - you come over here and watch all of the wranglers and see what they are able to do with their horses and then tell me they cannot ride! Most people could only dream of being able to have a relationship with a horse such as they do. All wranglers do Parelli - they may not know that it now has a name and they may not know that the name these days is Parelli - but they do it regardless.
Take issue with useless riders by all means; there are PLENTY of those who come under the BHS umbrella, and in the UK there does appear to be many useless horsemen who come under the Parelli umbrella; so criticise these individuals if you wish, but to poo-poo a whole form of teaching (particularly as soooo many of these methods have been used for generations) seems blinkered to me.
Having said all that - I can't ever imagine me teaching any of my horses half of these things if I lived in England as I probably wouldn't see the relevance or need, since jumping was my thing there and not cattle sorting.
In a nutshell, it is NOT the name of what is done that should be run into the ground, it's the folks who don't have a clue about most aspects of good, grounded horsemanship who should be frowed upon - and they are not Parelli riders, they are just useless riders.
JM07
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
In a nutshell, it is NOT the name of what is done that should be run into the ground, it's the folks who don't have a clue about most aspects of good, grounded horsemanship who should be frowed upon - and they are not Parelli riders, they are just useless riders.
[/ QUOTE ]
in a nutshell, Tia
In a nutshell, it is NOT the name of what is done that should be run into the ground, it's the folks who don't have a clue about most aspects of good, grounded horsemanship who should be frowed upon - and they are not Parelli riders, they are just useless riders.
[/ QUOTE ]
in a nutshell, Tia
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
that includes the picture above. the pelvis is rounded so the seat bones are appling pressure in a 'point pressire way' That may explain why that walk is lateral???
[/ QUOTE ]
I didn't put the photo up of that poor girl as an example of perfect ridden work, it was to illustrate that bits are used! If I remember correctly she was doing lateral work at the time the photo was taken, which would explain why the walk is lateral... She was there to learn, and improving her seat is one of the things she was working on. If she was a perfect rider (who here is?) then maybe she wouldn't have been on a clinic.
I'm also gobsmacked that someone should take the piss out of a person riding in a rope halter wearing a body protector. People who ride bitless are just as entitled to attend to their personal safety as anyone else. There can be several reasons for wearing a body protector, it doesn't always mean they think their horse isn't safe.
that includes the picture above. the pelvis is rounded so the seat bones are appling pressure in a 'point pressire way' That may explain why that walk is lateral???
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I didn't put the photo up of that poor girl as an example of perfect ridden work, it was to illustrate that bits are used! If I remember correctly she was doing lateral work at the time the photo was taken, which would explain why the walk is lateral... She was there to learn, and improving her seat is one of the things she was working on. If she was a perfect rider (who here is?) then maybe she wouldn't have been on a clinic.
I'm also gobsmacked that someone should take the piss out of a person riding in a rope halter wearing a body protector. People who ride bitless are just as entitled to attend to their personal safety as anyone else. There can be several reasons for wearing a body protector, it doesn't always mean they think their horse isn't safe.
Natch
Well-Known Member
Blimey, and to think I have only just found this thread, 54 replies and 3 pages in!
As I say in most of these threads, parelli is overly commercialised, but if it hilights the age-old issues;
1) understanding and intereacting with your horse's body language is a good thing
and
2) Kindness and humility are the best ways to train a horse
...then apart from being a rip off I don't have a problem with Parelli. I happen to think the Parelli model is flawed, but I do believe somewhere in its roots that the intention was to promote the above 2 points.
Well researched NH people know Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli didn't invent the wheel - the old cowboys, the old school horse people knew all this all along, but I believe for a while the horse world in general had lost sight of this knowledge. Anyone who brings the two points I make above back to the forefront of people's minds and puts it into a teachable format then good on them.
I think Parelli is now more than ever inward facing and way too commercial. I just think its one of a few fads that some people gain a little knowledge about, take a few shortcuts and land themselves in a lot of trouble because they are following part of the instruction booklet without knowing the why behind it or having the full set of tools.
a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
As I say in most of these threads, parelli is overly commercialised, but if it hilights the age-old issues;
1) understanding and intereacting with your horse's body language is a good thing
and
2) Kindness and humility are the best ways to train a horse
...then apart from being a rip off I don't have a problem with Parelli. I happen to think the Parelli model is flawed, but I do believe somewhere in its roots that the intention was to promote the above 2 points.
Well researched NH people know Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli didn't invent the wheel - the old cowboys, the old school horse people knew all this all along, but I believe for a while the horse world in general had lost sight of this knowledge. Anyone who brings the two points I make above back to the forefront of people's minds and puts it into a teachable format then good on them.
I think Parelli is now more than ever inward facing and way too commercial. I just think its one of a few fads that some people gain a little knowledge about, take a few shortcuts and land themselves in a lot of trouble because they are following part of the instruction booklet without knowing the why behind it or having the full set of tools.
a little knowledge being a dangerous thing.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
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they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
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Did you seriously load someone elses horse without being asked? Blimey, I'd have killed you
can imagine how annoying it was to watch......
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Yep sure did
They'd been trying for about two hours.......everyone else had gone home & I wanted to go home as well..........trouble was I had to lock up so they had three choices, Be locked in, start hacking, or let me do it. To be honest the poor animal was so fed up by this time it was almost a welfare issue
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they took the horse from them, shook the headcollar, growled at it, & led it straight in.
They were horrified & indignantly claimed that I'd ruined their training!! Part of my reply contained the line 'If you're training it not to load you could be right' The rest of my reply would get me banned from here if I included it!!
[/ QUOTE ]
Did you seriously load someone elses horse without being asked? Blimey, I'd have killed you
can imagine how annoying it was to watch......
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Yep sure did
They'd been trying for about two hours.......everyone else had gone home & I wanted to go home as well..........trouble was I had to lock up so they had three choices, Be locked in, start hacking, or let me do it. To be honest the poor animal was so fed up by this time it was almost a welfare issue
Skhosu
Well-Known Member
IF parelli was gentler they wouldn't be hitting their horses round the head with sticks. They have breakaway rein attachements I have seen being doubled up when the horse was not co operating. The horses I have seen have been confused and upset. Not gentler at all imo.
angiebaby
Well-Known Member
Tinypony, I'm also gobsmacked when said person also rides around village hatless, leading another horse, in the middle of single track lane. And looks down at everyone else who dares ride out in a bit.
BTW I have mentioned to said person if she caused an accident the insurance company wouldn't pay up on the grounds of not taking safety precautions.
I watched Pirelli on TV yesterday am, young boy hitting his horse with stick on the chest to get it to move backwards; Wouldn't you move back if someone smacked you on your chest with a stick?
BTW I have mentioned to said person if she caused an accident the insurance company wouldn't pay up on the grounds of not taking safety precautions.
I watched Pirelli on TV yesterday am, young boy hitting his horse with stick on the chest to get it to move backwards; Wouldn't you move back if someone smacked you on your chest with a stick?
Tinypony
Well-Known Member
Jakesmydog, if you read my posts you might realise I'm not exactly supporting Parelli.
I am very keen on certain trainers who have what people refer to as a "natural" approach, but the reason I'm keen on them is because they aren't Parelli trainers. I have the advantage of having come to understand Parelli as a student, and even by working for them for a while, and I have chosen to progress to methods that I feel are much less confrontational.
Now that you've added the extra info about your local "Parelli" lady I agree with you - it sounds as if she is up to some unsafe things. Personally I may be a bit of a "natural" horseman, but I wear a hat when I ride. On the right horse I might even stretch to a body protector! I am however insured to ride bitless, I checked and it is even noted on my insurance policy. (NFU).
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Well researched NH people know Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli didn't invent the wheel
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Monty Roberts claims to have invented stuff. Pat Parelli doesn't. He constantly says "This is so old it's new" and believes that he is just taking old knowledge and packaging it up to make it more accessible and understandable.
Now that you've added the extra info about your local "Parelli" lady I agree with you - it sounds as if she is up to some unsafe things. Personally I may be a bit of a "natural" horseman, but I wear a hat when I ride. On the right horse I might even stretch to a body protector! I am however insured to ride bitless, I checked and it is even noted on my insurance policy. (NFU).
[ QUOTE ]
Well researched NH people know Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli didn't invent the wheel
[/ QUOTE ]
Monty Roberts claims to have invented stuff. Pat Parelli doesn't. He constantly says "This is so old it's new" and believes that he is just taking old knowledge and packaging it up to make it more accessible and understandable.