OK - who hates parelli?

I worked at Parelli's new office in stoneleigh park for 2 weeks as an office junior. 2 of us were employed and tbh it was a job i could do myself but i was sacked for "not getting on well in the office". Such BS cuz I got on fine they just wanted an excuse to let me go. Only difference was I didnt have a horse of my own and never tried parelli before but the other girl had a horse and was doing parelli. So I felt really annoyed and said to them I was at a disadvantage cuz I hadnt done any parelli but the response was "we dont just employ people who have done parelli". Um hello everyone in the office does parelli!!

Anyways I think some of the ideas are good but all the merchandising etc is a total rip off. I should know I was distributing the stuff and taking orders. If your rich then thats ok.
 
Tinypony I'm not saying they do or don't claim to, just that a lot of people get that impression. Until I started reading around the subject I didn't know any differently.

(BTW was it you who knows Tracy??)
 
Yep, that's me.
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I get what you were saying now. I think Pat P is generally pretty honest about where he came from and how he does things with horses (apart from a bit of selective memory re Philip Nye in his book, which I will never forgive LOL!).
 
I find it bizarre that so many people are so hung up about Parelli. I have some BHS qualifications which I obtained during the process of studying Parelli. I've also studied various other "methods" including Heather Moffett and Mary Wanless. I think it's unreasonable to be criticising Parelli based on watching someone in the early stages of the programme ie the person with the reins like washing lines; in a string halter and slouching etc etc. Furthermore to the person who suggested going to a BHS riding school as a solution for quality instruction I'm afraid I beg to differ - I've been to some appalling BHS qualified riding instructors. Just because you can sit properly and hold the reins correctly (according to the BHS) does not make you a good horseman/woman. There are also some very good open minded BHS instructors around. Parelli is about safety and progression to a very high level of horsemanship - how many of you can do a piaffe and passage with no reins as Mr Parelli can??

What happened to freedom of speech, keeping an open mind and embracing new ideas??? Frankly some of the comments made about Mr Parelli on this forum seem personal jibes and could anti americanism - absolutlely nothing to do with horsemanship!!
 
I find it bizarre that so many people are so hung up about Parelli. I have some BHS qualifications which I obtained during the process of studying Parelli. I've also studied various other "methods" including Heather Moffett and Mary Wanless. I think it's unreasonable to be criticising Parelli based on watching someone in the early stages of the programme ie the person with the reins like washing lines; in a string halter and slouching etc etc. Furthermore to the person who suggested going to a BHS riding school as a solution for quality instruction I'm afraid I beg to differ - I've been to some appalling BHS qualified riding instructors. Just because you can sit properly and hold the reins correctly (according to the BHS) does not make you a good horseman/woman. There are also some very good open minded BHS instructors around. Parelli is about safety and progression to a very high level of horsemanship - how many of you can do a piaffe and passage with no reins as Mr Parelli can??

What happened to freedom of speech, keeping an open mind and embracing new ideas??? Frankly some of the comments made about Mr Parelli on this forum seem personal jibes and anti americanism - absolutlely nothing to do with horsemanship!!
 
Nothing wrong with freedom of speech and open minds at all! I think its just such a touchy subject because so many people on here have seen bad examples of both Parelli students and trainers.
 
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Parelli is about safety and progression to a very high level of horsemanship - how many of you can do a piaffe and passage with no reins as Mr Parelli can??


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I'm beginning to think I've been to see another 'Mr Parelli' than the one you've obviously seen...
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- how many of you can do a piaffe and passage with no reins as Mr Parelli can??



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I can
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I have an independent seat and do not need to use the reins to control where I want the horse to go .... one way I used to teach the kids was to demonstrate how to ride a horse without reins and my horse would still turn/circle walk trot and canter just by using my seat and back... the kids realised then they didn't have to use harsh rein aids to get their horse to do what they want ... best way to teach was to demonstrate ... that way the kids believed if they saw for themselves
 
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Parelli is about safety and progression to a very high level of horsemanship - how many of you can do a piaffe and passage with no reins as Mr Parelli can??


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I'm beginning to think I've been to see another 'Mr Parelli' than the one you've obviously seen...
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LOL! OMG the perish the thought that there are two of them
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Sirena; do you think Pat Parelli is a good rider with competent horsemanship skills?

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Actually I do, my first problem is the supposition that ALL horses benefit from Parelli methods and that those of us who don't practice it are not good horse people and don't love our horses enough. I really had a problem with that aussie guy who stated "only come if you love your horse, I mean really love your horse".

My second problem is that people who lack the necessary horse skills start to practice parelli and end up with confused and worried horses. I watched a demo where Linda had two people, almost side by side lunging (quite closely) together, they did not turn with the horses so at times the horses were going round behind them, sorry but it looked dangerous (and also pointless imho), can you imagine a couple of novice people doing that? The carnage could be spectacular!

My third, and final problem is the cost of all the paraphernalia that goes with it, yes, I would expect someone to charge for instruction in anything but the cost of parelli is through the roof, mind you, as a marketing person myself, they have obviously identified their target base (40+ ladies with lots of disposable income) so they are very very good at marketing - shouldn't knock em for that I suppose, but it leaves a bit of a taste in my mouth.
 
I couldn't agree more. The NH approach should be encouraged. Fear and intimidation is not the answer, and being scared and down hearted because your horse is unamanageble is no way to live either. If Parelli help, then great. If your neighbour\the batn helps, then that is great too. Do what you have to do to get better at it.


I know lots of people who are uncomfortable with how commercial the Parelli brand has become - this inevitable when you go from a two man (and woman) band to a global organisation reaching out across all continents - you cannot run a business well on that scale without some good management. It's a shame, but a truth that happens for all businesses that succeed on a larger scale. None of the other brands of horsemanship are any different. they all sell 'products' to make money to spread the word.

They dont want to just reach a few thousand people at a conference, they want evryone with an interest to have access. So therefore DVDs and books, websites and TV shows are needed in order to do that. That takes a lot of people and talent to organise and that comes at a cost. The bigger and better the materials the more expensive it becomes.

I actually like the idea of home study, and have done so for more academic purposes (I am a nuturopath) and have made huge improvements in my own approach to life and horses because of it. I think that is a good thing. The Parlli products, whether you like th ephilosophy or not, are well produced, high quality , intensive information sources which turn out to be quite good value for money when compared to, say, having regular riding lessons!!!

In my time I have had probably hundereds of riding lessons - these taught me a lot about riding, but absolutely nothing about the horse, what it needs, what is important to it, or how to care for its physical emtional and mental health. Not good value for money for someone looking to own a horse and work with it for the long term, rather than just ride one occationally.
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So there!
 
Mr Parelli is a cowboy first and foremost. he rides like a cowboy, BUT not all cowboys can do the high level dressage moves tha Parelli can. The horse looks fantastic. he doesn't claim to be a classical dressage rider, but is a very good horseman.

Why are we encouraging peopleto 'hate' or 'love something anyway??? Why cant we let those that do, carry on with it, and those that dont can carry on not doing it. Simple.
 
Um, no. Parelli emphatically place the blame with the handler for not dealing with the horse well. the horse is just being a horse whatever behaviour it displays. That is the point.

Trying to eliminate poor human behaviour which causes the horse distress, anxiety, pain, and confusion is what the Parelli training is fundamentally about. Understand the horse, let the horse be a horse and work with that rather than try and make uit change to be the animal you think it should be.

If you find that patronising, then so be it.
 
Your last comment is absolutely right. Parelli is tyring to help those who are really in trouble, dont have enough horse experience or 'sense' to get it right without help.

As for instructors - mine have taught me loads about riding, but very little bout anything else. Perhaps I have been unlucky, but when I payed for a lesson, it was generally expected to be a riding lesson - nothing else is on offer to to the average punter I am afraid. Once you are in the Pony club or riding club, that changes - but you generally ahave a horse by then, and it's too late!!
 
what about the hitting with the 'carrot' stick, etc. etc.? I find all that a bit off... and the shouting in the demos and unhappy looking horses at the demos?
Reasons why I wouldn't do it myself.
 
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what about the hitting with the 'carrot' stick, etc. etc.?

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Parelli doesn't teach you to hit your horse with a carrot stick .

AS has already been mentioned, some dumba** will strike a horse with a whip, carrot stick or piping etc.

IMO this has nothing to so with Parelli, BHS etc and everything to do with general bad horsemanship...
 
TBH I haven't watched the TV programmes.

The Level 1 programme didn't require me to hit my horse , don't know what else to say about that subject ..
 
You've seen someone on a TV programme hitting a horse with a carrot stick to make it back up? What did the horse do - run away? What idiot person would do that and I'm amazed that something so stupid was aired on TV. Anyone with any basic knowledge knows that the carrot stick is supposed to be used as an extension of the arm, as with any type of whip.
 
yup, its when they use the carrot sticks to get the horse to back up (ridden), apparently to keep them straight...if horse doesn't go back fast enough/at all they begin using the sticks..
To clarify pat parelli is on the horses back at the time, there is no one on the ground.
 
Oh yes I know that they are used to tap horses in order to steer them, that's not what I was commenting on though - you said that he HIT the horse with them. It's the hitting part I can't understand, particularly if you are talking about Pat himself. If it was just some idiot who was hitting as misinterpretation of what you are supposed to do with them - but your allegations of the carrot-stick creator hitting horses with it, is to say the least, incredible!
 
Well, that is not exactly true. I have just watched some of the Parelli Liberty and horse behaviour DVDs and part of the traininig is that you give fair warning (as a horse would) and if the horse does not move you go through the phases ending in a 'tap' with the savy string or the stick. It's not a 'whack', and gets the horses attention and learns to move before phase 4. But I'm afraid sticks do come in contact with the horse.

Perhaps the difference (if there is one) is that the 'tap' is used never when the human is frustrated, angry or at a loss of what to do next to force the horse through a fear threshold, which can be case when talking about riding whips.

It's supposed to emulate how horses communicate - they pull faces, run at eachother and if the offending equine does not shift, it gets a bite or a kick - and it learns from that.

So it's not all fluffy bunny sh*t, it requires you be assertive if the situation warrants it. Not everyone can do that. Most of us become firm and assertive when we are frustrated, angry and annoyed, but we need to be firm when needed which is not often the same thing.
 
I just don't get it at all I'm afraid. Each to their own and i wouldn't knock anyone for doing it. My horse will go back with a little touch and the word 'back' when i ask him to without having to wave a rope at him. And isn't a carrot stick just a glorified lunge whip??

To me its just good common horse sense labeled up with a phone number price tag
 
that's kind of what I'm saying, people say it is gentler...I don't see it!
And I assume you're not saying that only parelli people are able to not hit their horses when frustrated?
 
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Well, that is not exactly true. I have just watched some of the Parelli Liberty and horse behaviour DVDs and part of the traininig is that you give fair warning (as a horse would) and if the horse does not move you go through the phases ending in a 'tap' with the savy string or the stick. It's not a 'whack', and gets the horses attention and learns to move before phase 4. But I'm afraid sticks do come in contact with the horse.

Perhaps the difference (if there is one) is that the 'tap' is used never when the human is frustrated, angry or at a loss of what to do next to force the horse through a fear threshold, which can be case when talking about riding whips.

It's supposed to emulate how horses communicate - they pull faces, run at eachother and if the offending equine does not shift, it gets a bite or a kick - and it learns from that.

So it's not all fluffy bunny sh*t, it requires you be assertive if the situation warrants it. Not everyone can do that. Most of us become firm and assertive when we are frustrated, angry and annoyed, but we need to be firm when needed which is not often the same thing.

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Are you referring to my post

TBH I haven't watched the TV programmes.

The Level 1 programme didn't require me to hit my horse , don't know what else to say about that subject .. '


If so, I'm confused as to which part is not exactly true
 
I worked for a dressage rider for a short time a few summers ago. Her main horse was working at grand prix (competing PSG) and was also trained to level 3 parelli. She did not like the ridden work in parelli, and hence why she stopped it. She said the horse was schooled completely wrong and upside down. She did however retain some methods, mixed with other methods she found worked. Her horses were all impeccibly mannered and easy to lunge (i didnt spy any £200 pound starter kit though!) but were also worked in side rein/pessoas etc. Basically she used her common sense and applied the training based on the horse.
My friend is studying horse behaviour as part of her degree, she has studied parelli and again agree that some of it was ridiculous but other parts she may use.
A women at my yard uses it, i suspect more for her own confidence, but she has a very willing and tolerant pony and has done all her research. However i do get an impression that she believes her way is the only correct way, and we are all training our horses in a way that makes them unhappy.
Although parelli seems to help her, and at the end of the day its not doing them any harm.
I think what im trying to say, is that each to there own, if it works then great. But i hate the commercialism or parelli, and also the cult like status that "we are right, everything else is wrong" and the thought that every horse should be trained in this way, my friends horse would literally attack you if a carrot stick was waved near it!
I think that there are idiots in all aspects of horse training, NH/parelli just seems to attract more. As ive said before, a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, this applys to all training methods!
Surely the most effective way of training is to fit the training to the horse not one method that is a cure-all.
Wow, ive rambled
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The part of your post which is indicating that Parelli dont require you to 'hit' the horse with the carrot stick.

They dont advocate whacking them in frustration, but using contact, as a horse would, to get them to move out of the way is definately in the programme. Level 1 DVDs also do have this to some degree - the hsort range circling game for example has you tap the horse behind the saddle to indicate ot should move. Passive persistence in the propoer position using the phases. Phase 4 generally makes contact with the horse one way or another.
 
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