Old horse SI problems?

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Noodlebug

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My old mare has been struggling to walk downhill for the last few months. She is retired so this is just observed in the field. She does have Cushing's and TB flat feet but there is no pulse to any of her feet. She has an arthritic knee which she seems to cope well with. The action walking downhill is a lateral walk and it really is the only walking downhill that is the problem. She also has two lumps over her sacrum (right is higher) and also looks very crooked to me; dropped on the left. She did slip over in the winter spooking at something in the hedge but we have good days as in cantering around the field and bad days where she looks really horrible walking downhill. I had the vet in May and she said it was laminitis from the hard ground and didn't look at her backend. I check her digital pulse twice a day and I honestly do not think that it is laminitis. It could be foot pain in the fronts but get her on the flat ground she walks really well. Anyone else had SI problems as everything I look at is to do with working horses
 
I honestly think the cheapest (in the long term) and the most likely success will come from whipping her away to an Equine Hospital with a lameness expert.

If they had suspected lami there, they would have X rayed the same day. If that had not been the cause, they would have carried on investigating until they found the issue.

The hospital would have a built in slope for the purpose of identifying lameness up or down hill. They would keep going until they found the issue.

When I have taken mine, I have both times been told to be prepared to leave them there for 4 days if possible, but both times the source of pain has been identified and treated on one day.

One was just a source of lameness, suspected ligament in the foot but as the treatment would be a steroid injection to the site of pain anyway, I did not scan (would have been about £1500), just treated.

Second time was a mild suspensory, identified, scanned, treated all on the same day.

Did your vet block the horse sound to the front feet, so she was no longer lame?
 
If she has visible muscle wastage on one side then there is an issue somewhere behind causing it to develop over time and it is fairly likely to be from a fall or slip, this will have an effect on how she moves and may well feel worse some days than others, as for what to do that depends on how far you want to go investigating and treating, if she were mine I would probably not take a retired horse for a load of investigations and just get a really good physio out to assess and see if some basic physio and daily exercises can help, although as it is now a chronic problem if it is the SI it may be hard to make much improvement even with veterinary treatment.
 
Red-1 said:
I honestly think the cheapest (in the long term) and the most likely success will come from whipping her away to an Equine Hospital with a lameness expert.

If they had suspected lami there, they would have X rayed the same day. If that had not been the cause, they would have carried on investigating until they found the issue.

The hospital would have a built in slope for the purpose of identifying lameness up or down hill. They would keep going until they found the issue.

When I have taken mine, I have both times been told to be prepared to leave them there for 4 days if possible, but both times the source of pain has been identified and treated on one day.

One was just a source of lameness, suspected ligament in the foot but as the treatment would be a steroid injection to the site of pain anyway, I did not scan (would have been about £1500), just treated.

Second time was a mild suspensory, identified, scanned, treated all on the same day.

Did your vet block the horse sound to the front feet, so she was no longer lame?
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No just watched her walk a few steps! Travelling not an option I am afraid and I wouldn't want to put her through the stress of going to an Equine Hospital.
 
be positive said:
If she has visible muscle wastage on one side then there is an issue somewhere behind causing it to develop over time and it is fairly likely to be from a fall or slip, this will have an effect on how she moves and may well feel worse some days than others, as for what to do that depends on how far you want to go investigating and treating, if she were mine I would probably not take a retired horse for a load of investigations and just get a really good physio out to assess and see if some basic physio and daily exercises can help, although as it is now a chronic problem if it is the SI it may be hard to make much improvement even with veterinary treatment.
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She had a physio out this week and she agreed that she looked stiff behind but walked quite freely on the fronts. I am not thinking of putting her through lots of investigations and to be fair she happily grazes around her field and can get up ok. This does seem to have developed over the spring/summer months and I just wondered about injections to the SI
 
I think I would nerve block her front feet to rule out laminitis firstly then go from there, it can be done at your yard fairly easily and not that expensive.

Is she on prascend for the cushings?
 
Pinkvboots said:
I think I would nerve block her front feet to rule out laminitis firstly then go from there, it can be done at your yard fairly easily and not that expensive.

Is she on prascend for the cushings?
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Yes, 2 a day and since the increase has kept coming into season which seems to make it worse!!
 
Noodlebug said:
She had a physio out this week and she agreed that she looked stiff behind but walked quite freely on the fronts. I am not thinking of putting her through lots of investigations and to be fair she happily grazes around her field and can get up ok. This does seem to have developed over the spring/summer months and I just wondered about injections to the SI
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They won't just inject areas without a proper diagnosis, if your not prepared to investigate what is exactly wrong maybe put her on some Bute and see if it makes her more comfortable.
 
Noodlebug said:
No just watched her walk a few steps! Travelling not an option I am afraid and I wouldn't want to put her through the stress of going to an Equine Hospital.
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I get this, we had one that could not travel. The vet we had was still pre-warned to bring all the kit for a lameness work up and did a full nerve block followed by X Ray of the place the block showed an issue on the day of his visit.

It does not sound like your vet did any sort of an examination at all in this case.

Most equine specialist vets can bring the small X ray machines and ultrasound type scanners out, as long as they are pre-warned so they know to bring them, as well as knowing to block several hours from their diary.
 
Noodlebug said:
She had a physio out this week and she agreed that she looked stiff behind but walked quite freely on the fronts. I am not thinking of putting her through lots of investigations and to be fair she happily grazes around her field and can get up ok. This does seem to have developed over the spring/summer months and I just wondered about injections to the SI
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Did they not see the muscle wastage? a physio should pick up on that and have offered some suggestions even if they felt it was beyond their remit to treat it.
You can inject the SI but it is fairly deep so the vet may want them in to do it, my horse had his done some years ago and went in to my vets, costs were around £500 as it needed to be guided by ultrasound and fairly deep sedation, mine was done after a brief assessment at home where he felt the SI was the obvious issue based on the history he had been given, I had just changed vets so it was his first sight of the horse .
 
Noodlebug said:
She had a physio out this week and she agreed that she looked stiff behind but walked quite freely on the fronts. I am not thinking of putting her through lots of investigations and to be fair she happily grazes around her field and can get up ok. This does seem to have developed over the spring/summer months and I just wondered about injections to the SI
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I would not bother with the physio until you have a diagnosis. They physio will have been best part of £100 for nothing much, and a workup would be likely under £500 if you pre-warn them that you are not insured. In fact, for the £500 I would imagine they would also medicate!

ETA - sorry, cross posted with be positive above. Lets me know the £500 I thought is not so far off the ball park though.
 
I don't think vet will inject SI on the yard - they want mine in hospital even though she ties-up travelling.

Could you get danilon for a week and see how it goes? My retired gelding had a nasty fall 12 months ago which I saw (his right shoulder took the brunt of it) & he has been on danilon since.
 
SEL said:
I don't think vet will inject SI on the yard - they want mine in hospital even though she ties-up travelling.

Could you get danilon for a week and see how it goes? My retired gelding had a nasty fall 12 months ago which I saw (his right shoulder took the brunt of it) & he has been on danilon since.
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Already on Dailon for the knee
 
Red-1 said:
I would not bother with the physio until you have a diagnosis. They physio will have been best part of £100 for nothing much, and a workup would be likely under £500 if you pre-warn them that you are not insured. In fact, for the £500 I would imagine they would also medicate!

ETA - sorry, cross posted with be positive above. Lets me know the £500 I thought is not so far off the ball park though.
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Physio wasn't that expensive but wasn't what I expected and it probably did no good or harm! She only used Ultrasound and no manipulation so it was almost certainly a waste if £50. I am searching for a good osteopath, chiropractor etc. but live on an island and not that easy!!! Hence the no Equine hospital involves an expensive boat ride!! I am quite happy to have extensive investigations at home just not moving her. If there is no treatment then I may have to may a decision about her and the quality of life, however, she seems very happy at the moment and since she is at home I see her all-day; Might be the problem maybe stop looking :):)
 
Coming back about the injections they are not going to be a cure if it is the SI, they will reduce the inflammation to allow physio and rehab to build up muscles to make the area function properly so if you cannot do a rehab because she is not otherwise fit enough then they will be a waste of money, unlike steroid injections into some joints where the muscle mass is not such an issue, my horse had 4 months of intensive rehab after his injections and came right but my vet was not certain they would be so effective and had said we only had one chance to get it right .

In my view any physio who does not manipulate is wasting your time and money unless the ultrasound treatment is part of a veterinary plan, I wouldn't bother with that again and in your situation would probably be thinking of managing her as best you can on danilon and giving her future serious consideration.
 
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My boy is a draft and when he fell it was hard - at speed and onto solid ground. I was devastated. The vet said all we could do was anti inflammatory meds and wait for the bruising to go down.

After around 3 months (with reducing danilon - 4 per day for first 2 weeks) I had a body worker out who specialises in soft tissue work. She did a great job on loosening him up.

He's retired so no need to be ridden, just comfortable in the field. Perhaps try a different physio or increase the danilon and see where you are. I knew that if there was any serious damage my options were limited but he seems ok now - did take a while though. Good luck x
 
^^^ Agree with Be Positive’s posts.

For an older retired horse who is already on danilon and 2 x prascend a day, I wouldn't be looking beyond getting a good physio/osteo/chiro on board. If after that the horse was still not comfortable, I’d call it a day.

I do have a creaky horse (Cushing’s, PSSM and bilateral hock arthritis), and I have recently had both sides of her SI joint medicated. The chiro vet recommended this to my regular vet, who was happy to do it without further investigations. It cost £263.60 at horsepital, including sedation, which was very reasonable, I thought. I wouldn’t recommend getting it done at home. My mare went into the stocks and the vet climbed up a stepladder to guide the extremely long needles in by ultrasound. It needs a lot of precision.

I do have a post medication rehab plan which involves strengthening the now pain free SI region with gradually increasing work in straight lines. This mare can be ridden, though, which helps hugely with the rehab. She started at 20 mins per day and is now on 45 mins per day.

I wish you and your mare well.
 
I would also be looking at physio for this. Have you been using any supplements for arthritis up to now? Obviously not a cure, but might make more comfortable?

I personally, wouldn’t investigate further, particularly as you can’t get to the vets, you’re on a hiding to nothing. If physio/ Danilon/ supplements won’t do it, I think I’d call it a day.
 
Yes looking into osteopaths and chiropractors now. Whilst she is still trotting over for dinner and cantering around when she doesn't want to be caught I will keep her going. She grazes all day and never looks unhappy if a little wonky. I don't use supplements as I have found them to work in the past but maybe a good quality joint supplement may help.
 
A friend and I have been using a sports massage lady for our horses, I can honestly say the difference is unbelievable both horses are moving better there posture has improved and just generally feel so much better to ride, might be worth looking into and finding someone who is recommended, my friends instructor recommended this lady to us and I now use her a lot and instead of my usual physio.
 
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