Old owner wants horse back!

[Spring Feather]

Ditto - a friend went through exactly the same scenario - it went to court - she won!

Two of my friends went through same scenario except they were the "previous" owners - their cases went to court - they won because they had bills of sales, registration papers etc. So it totally depends on what written evidence each case can provide.

 

[Elsbells]

Possesion is 9/10th of the law. I should imagine if she get her hands on him, you'll be lost, so be very careful.

 

[Foster1983]

Thank you all so so much for your comments! Losing this horse would break my heart! The bills so far for the last 3 years come to a sum of over £5k and I do have receipts for everything! But in fairness the money means nothing. The previous owner came up with the purchase price of £1k, I only agreed on the understanding that she never contact us again because it was an evil trick to play.

I feel really naive because I got nothing in writing from her, I gave her the benefit of the doubt at the time. I was given his passport with the horse but did not change into my name... Yet another foolish thing! I had only ever loaned horses previously so did not understand the importance of all these small details! God I will not be this silly again.

A solicitor mentioned the law of "Equity"... (fairness)... and that because the previus owner has led me to believe for 3 years that the horse was mine until just recently it can be argued that this is unfair. She didn't mention anything prior to this month.

I could kick myself!

 

[Foster1983]

Two of my friends went through same scenario except they were the "previous" owners - their cases went to court - they won because they had bills of sales, registration papers etc. So it totally depends on what written evidence each case can provide.

This lady bred him so will not have a receipt for him as such but will have his original paperwork... But then anyone who breeds a horse could keep the papers and snatch it back whenever they feel like it if this is what the law states!

 

[Elsbells]

Hah! You have the passport!

Not proof of ownership we know, but proof of something seeing as you were given posession of it in the first place. I have to confess that I have only just done something about changing my mares this week and I have had her 2 years!! I do have a reciept though.

 

[Spring Feather]

You aren't the first and you won't be the last person to take someone on their word and trust that they won't change their mind at a later date. Are you sure you don't have any emails lurking on your computer somewhere which might help your situation? I agree with your lawyer that equity should count for something. Out of interest, does the "owner" have any paperwork stating the horse is owned by her?? Right now the horse is in your care and control, I would think in this situation it is her place to prove that she owns this horse and if she has as little as you then who's to say who legally owns the horse ... possibly the person who has it? I wish you luck.

 

[DW Team]

If you are a BHS gold member give them a ring and see if there legal eagles c
an help. So sorry you have been put through this. Good luck.

 

[Spring Feather]

This lady bred him so will not have a receipt for him as such but will have his original paperwork... But then anyone who breeds a horse could keep the papers and snatch it back whenever they feel like it if this is what the law states!

Okay so neither of you have a bill of sale ... that's looking a bit more promising for you. Is the horse registered? Who has the registration papers?

 

[MrsHutt]

You said that the 'owner' had said she had merely loaned the horse to you? Where is the loan agreement? Would anyone who wanted their horse back in the end 'loan' it to someone without such an agreement? I think that speaks volumes and would do so to any court hearing the case! Also, the fact that you haven't heard from her in so long would make anyone think that she had 'abandoned' the horse and you would reasonably assume it was yours to keep.

I do think you would have a good case if it went to court. Fingers crossed for you!

 

[babymare]

oh foster sweetheart stop being so hard on your self - we all believe and hope in good human nature - i know i do and been so hurt to - i have little legal advice I know I cant help other than a big hug and my thoughts with you - and please hun you are human trusting and ready for hurting like me so please please stop tearing self up - pm me any time honest - i have great ears and shoulder xxxx

 

[Wagtail]

I really do hope it works out well for you. What an awful thing to have happened.

 

[kal40]

OP: please keep us updated. Its an awful situation to be in but you have had some good but of advice on here.

 

[ofcourseyoucan]

sad situation.you said the horse was dropped off at your friends yard, and then you took her on. surely your friend will back you up on the free to good home issue. or was the horse dropped off at your friends , for your friend to find horse a home? Good luck.

 

[bumper]

All the very best of luck to you, really the woman who gave the horse to you is behaving very badly. If morals came into it, the horse is yours: she seems to have none. I very much hope all the good advice you have been given on here helps you, and that you prevail x

 

[Amaranta]

Was there an advert or anything in writing which said "free to good home?"

In the absence of a loan contract, I think you could charge her livery for the horse - 3 years x ? plus training, etc. etc. Then you can come to some arrangement over taking the horse off her hands for the £1,000.

This is a nasty situation and I just hope it ends well for you.

Quite common though. My sister got a foal from a neighbour that the owners were fed up with. She insisted on paying a small amount and when they came by 3 years later and saw what a nice horse he was, she could show them the cheque book where she had paid for him.

I agree, without a loan agreement she cannot prove it was indeed a loan, present her with a bill for livery and training, I'll bet she will back down.

 

[Dolcé]

I would strongly agree with those suggesting you move the horse asap! If there is any chance of her getting possession of him you must prevent it as possession will make a huge difference. I have seen so many times on here where the horse has been taken back and the new 'owner' had no redress. I have to say though there are several happy endings on this thread which make me quite hopeful for you. Good luck x

 

[Circe]

I hope everything works out ok for you.
This seems to happen quite alot.
If it was me the first thing i would do is move the horse so she cant just turn up un announced and take him.
Then i would inform her you're billing her for
livery, vets, farrier etc. Let her know that you will have the horse as payment.
If and when this is sorted out, get it in writing that the horse is yours.

 

[AmyMay]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...g-centre-tug-love-court-battle-Stockport.html

 

[brighteyes]

Would the horse pass a 5 stage vetting? Just wondering...

 

[MissMincePie&Brandy]

Can you find any texts or emails from her, that you can use as written proof. Have you got any witnesses who can back up the fact that she gave you the horse?

Have you got any emails or texts that you have written to your friends around the time you took him on, telling them about your new horse, and the circumstances with which he was given to you? These will be dated, and may provide useful evidence.

You need a solicitor.

Try and find as many invoices relating to the horse as you can, going back as far as possible; livery bills, vets bills, saddlery, dentist etc, etc

As a last resort if you are unable to provide any proof of 'ownership', and it is a case of her word against yours, you and your solicitor might be able to justify making a claim against her for your expenses incurred over 3 years, which will work out far, far in excess of what the horse is worth. You need a good equine solicitor, who is not going to give in!

Good luck!

 

[brighteyes]

How often has she been in touch since he was dropped off and who brought him? Were there any arrangements regarding his delivery and did he come with any equipments, vaccinations etc?

 

[Puppy]

Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away.

How was this 'offer' communicated to you?

 

[Bug2007]

If you say you'll take her to court she might just back off.

 

[Damnation]

On one hand I think it was a little silly to take a horse without even paying £1 and getting a reciept and witnesses for the transaction. Perhaps I am just not a very trusting person it is a lesson learnt and I hope that you keep the horse

What I would do is find witnesses to her dumping the horse at your last yard. I would also issue her a bill for the horse's keep if she has decided there was no contract in place. Perhaps she will back off then.

 

[CHH]

Hi,

Firstly,

Move the horse to a secure location.
Seek legal advice from an equine specialist. To cut your costs here you can do some leg work and prepare a file for them.
1) What happened the day the horse was dropped off?
2) WHO dropped of the horse? (Suggest you get their contact details)
3) Wintesses to the horse being dropped off
4) Spreadsheet with receipts to match of all expenses for this horse todate.
5) Passport (yes it is not legal ownership) but who had it made - you or her? If she handed it (as should have been legally correct 3 years ago on transfer whether money changed hands or not and when a horse travels for any reason) to you then this is not you stealing her horse. The horse was never reported stolen, abit odd if she would claim that route if she hadn't noticed for 3 years it had gone.
6) Are you at the same yard as 3 years ago? is this how she knew where you were?
7) Agreeing to pay her money has left some vulnerability.

Please do contact an equine solicitor - ask for a free hour consultation (or a small charge one) and then take it from there. Most will do this.

Sadly not everyone is ethical in this world.

i wish you every success.

get a file of everything you can on the matter, I speak from experience (not the same issue but involving a horse) that the more you provide to a Solicitor in the first place the better.

 

[brighteyes]

And MOVE it, quick!

 

[Foster1983]

The "free to a good home" message was communicated verbally through a friend and then to my face on arrival. He was delivered by previous owner with no notice and also no tack or rugs or anything that belonged to him. He was in very poor condition. There were witnesses to his abrupt arrival.

Since then she has been in touch 2-3 times just to see how he is. She was visiting family in my area last year and she popped in for 5 mins to see him. She didnt even recognise him!

I am sure he would sale through a vetting process right now. If you saw the comparitive photographs of 'then' and 'now' you would think it was a different horse.

I have saught legal advice, I guess I will be sitting tight and seeing what happens now.

Thanks again for the advice!

 

[unicornleather]

Best of luck with this and let us know how you get on, Oz

 

[missponymad]

Can anyone offer me some advice please?

Almost 3 years ago I was given a horse who was offered to me as "free to a good home." The previous owner had bred the horse herself and had found herself in a position where her health unfortunately prohibited her from having the time to look after and do a great deal with him. She could not bring herself to take any money for him and agreed that if she could find a good home for him then she would literally give him away.

The horse was dropped off with no notice and left at my friend's yard so I assumed the previous owner was desperate and took the horse on with no question. He was not in great condition but I saw some potential in him as he was sweet natured. After corrective shoeing, a lot of care, love attention, change of feeding routine and training and exercise I managed to straighten out his walk, improve his condition and get him showing to a really good standard. He now hunts safely, jumps to 1m high and always gets placed in showing classes. He is a really good all round horse and I love him to pieces! I have covered the cost of all of the livery and vet expenses.

2 weeks ago the previous owner called advising the horse was for sale and asking whether I would pay £1k for him (bearing in mind he will be worth a lot mor than that now!). She said the horse was never "free to a good home" and that I have only ever had him on loan. I would not have spent the thousands of pounds I have spent on someone elses horse and NEVER agreed to a loan agrement. After a discussion I agreed to pay her the £1k providing she left us alone it moving forward. 2 weeks later (whilst I was trying to scramble together the money) she called again saying she was coming to collect the horse the following morning and that she no longer wanted to sell the horse to me. I refused her entry to the yard until I have saught legal advice as I see the horse as my own and have no idea what to do!

Has anyone else had a situation like this before who may be able to advise me?
Thank you!

gosh that must be horrible for you
tell her to stay off the property and make sure he is safe and nothing seems suspicous in anyway around him because some horses act funny when they know somethings not quite right, you never know she could be hanging around the yard with out you knowing. make sure none of your stuff goes missing.

good luck with it all xx

 

[SusieT]

Have to say the fact she ahs been in touch may not bode well with you. When she came to visit what was the discussion?