Older horse, back dipping. What can I do?

[HandBR]

My old boy (22) has been in very light work for the last couple of years mainly bits of hacking. He hates schooling! His top line has now all but disappeared and although he is sound, happy and healthy can't be ridden in a saddle as it no longer fits and saddle fitter & physio have both advised there isn't much point trying to find another to fit him because the dipping will only get worse due to age & level of activity.

So I now find myself between a rock and a hard place. I need the correct type of exercise to build up his back, but he can't be ridden in a saddle. And he's too unpredictable to ride bareback except in the arena, where he is very, very reluctant to stretch down to build up his back. He fights a chambon and also the Kavalkade lunging method. Once upon a time he used to go beautifully in the chambon - just a feel of it and he would drop and stretch beautifully and I can only assume his present reluctance is due to the weakness in his back.

We do regular carrot stretches and I do bits in the chambon as he will drop and stretch for a little then start to resist and go hollow again. I won't lunge much because of his age - don't want to add to our woes by putting too much pressure on his ageing joints. We live in a miserably flat area. The only "hills" are flyovers. We have done walking over raised poles but he quickly gets bored and starts attempting to jump/jog over them.

So for now we continue with raised poles, carrot stretches and little bits on the chambon. But I do worry that with his age (he is rising 23) he is too far gone to turn around top-line wise. I am going to give it over the winter doing what we are doing then re-assess the back situation with the physio to see if there is enough improvement to attempt finding a saddle that we can use just to get him out and about again. He hates schooling but loves his hacking.

Has anyone else managed to bring a horse back/turn one around with a similar issue, or has any advice to offer?

 

[Rowreach]

You would be able to fit an original Solution saddle to him. Horses with lordosis are ideal candidates for them. And you can pick second hand originals up reasonably cheaply, but if you went down this route I'd recommend getting a Solutions fitter out to balance it to him and you.

 

[HandBR]

Thanks for that! Will Google Solution saddles now.....!

 

[Rowreach]

PM me if you want to

 

[JillA]

Read the article I just posted on proteins, they might help build muscle if you supplement them

 

[Andalucian]

I use a treeless saddle on my dippy backed horse and she lifts up beautifully in it. I prefer a treed saddle, but she made it very clear that she couldn't move in it, so I listened.

 

[meleeka]

A session with a McTimoney Chiropractor makes all the difference to my boy. She also showed me stretches to do in between visits. Mine has a rear riser pad (with 3 shims in) and it means the saddle still fits him. His back goes up the more he does.

 

[HeresHoping]

Whilst you are sorting out the saddle issues, rather than lunge in the Chambon, can you go out in hand walking in it? 20 mins on a circle is a huge ask for a horse with a weak back. But 10 mins up the road with its undulations could be doable? Building up as you go? Also, let it out a few buckle holes so there is no need for him to drop his head completely but it is lowered slightly. If you are using a roller with your Chambon, you could also ask him to work his back end a little bit with a stretchy tail bandage fastened around his quarters, just above his gaskins.

A word of warning though. I love the Chambon, I really do. Far nicer than the Pessoa. However, if they are fighting it, it's because they are finding it difficult to stretch out those back muscles for any sustained length of time and the hurt will make them lift their heads and that will not only pull on their polls but also pull up their mouths (obviously, as that's how it works). I was rehabbing a horse we suspected had mild kissing spine and for the first couple of weeks he was fine, seeking down. By week three he really started to fight it, and in just 3 sessions his mouth was really, really sore. Now the Chambon was not particularly tight - in 'neutral' it didn't even pull the bit up in his mouth. It transpired the horse had many more issues than just KS. Anyway, the point is, I would work with your physio whilst you are building his back up - make sure that what you are doing is not making him sore or exacerbating issues elsewhere.

Also, at 23 has he had a Cushings test? Older Cushings horses develop a greater sway in their backs than those that don't. And, of course, it makes it much harder for them to develop and maintain muscle.

 

[Gloi]

Has he been tested for Cushings? That is a very likely reason for the muscle wastage.

 

[Shay]

Test for cushings a very good idea - before you feed proteins as that could make matters worse! Also echo the recommendation to look at a treeless saddle. I've had old ponies over the years who go this way - although much older than your lad. 22 isn't always that old for a horse - depends on type. But every one of the ponies had cushings to a greater or lessor extent once they started to dip like that. We were always able to keep them going with medication and in bareback pads, cub saddles or treeless saddles. There comes a point obviously and you have to retire them completely. But there are options.

 

[LD&S]

My mare has a dippy back but not a medical issue, I was advised walking her over poles with them raised at one side alternately, right left right left, if that makes sense, stretches too but saw you already do that, it helped quite a bit and as she got better and more used to it I raised them a little more but they were only ever at walking in hand height not jumping.

 

[JillA]

Test for cushings a very good idea - before you feed proteins as that could make matters worse!

How come? Sugars and starches are no-no's for Cushingoid horses but I'm not aware that proteins can do any harm?

 

[HandBR]

Thanks for all the replies.

He was tested (negative) for Cushings two years ago and vet has advised to re-test next year, which I will be doing. He had a bout of laminitis (managed to avoid since with a radical change of diet and keeping his weight down) and the vet was certain it was Cushings, but test came back negative. However I am aware that his age and previous lami mean he is a good candidate so will be re-testing as vet advised.

Re: Chambon. He walks OK in it, with a decent downward stretch, just fights it in trot so I am going to abandon trotting in it and will continue to lunge in walk only as at least he's happy like that and has a very good active walk, decent over-tracking.

I had considered tree-less but wouldn't know where to start! Also I've heard very mixed reviews about them and will at this point check out the Solutions saddle range if I can find a local adviser/fitter to talk to.

Will also be getting physio back out after a period of time with the stretches and raised poles to see if there's been any improvement.

Thanks everyone - lots to think about!

 

[JustKickOn]

Just a few little suggestions:
Equitop myoplast helped my friend's old boy loads, and over four weeks the Physio noted a considerable change for the better.

Carrot stretch his nose down to the floor and then ask him to step backwards

Scratch his tummy (think of "the claw" type tickling) as this encourages them to lift their back, equivalent of a human sit up

Have you tried a Pessoa, just in walk, going large around the arena to ask for the stretch down. Short bursts are best, as if he has no strength there, then it will be tough for him.

 

[Tyssandi]

My old boy (22) has been in very light work for the last couple of years mainly bits of hacking. He hates schooling! His top line has now all but disappeared and although he is sound, happy and healthy can't be ridden in a saddle as it no longer fits and saddle fitter & physio have both advised there isn't much point trying to find another to fit him because the dipping will only get worse due to age & level of activity.

So I now find myself between a rock and a hard place. I need the correct type of exercise to build up his back, but he can't be ridden in a saddle. And he's too unpredictable to ride bareback except in the arena, where he is very, very reluctant to stretch down to build up his back. He fights a chambon and also the Kavalkade lunging method. Once upon a time he used to go beautifully in the chambon - just a feel of it and he would drop and stretch beautifully and I can only assume his present reluctance is due to the weakness in his back.

We do regular carrot stretches and I do bits in the chambon as he will drop and stretch for a little then start to resist and go hollow again. I won't lunge much because of his age - don't want to add to our woes by putting too much pressure on his ageing joints. We live in a miserably flat area. The only "hills" are flyovers. We have done walking over raised poles but he quickly gets bored and starts attempting to jump/jog over them.

So for now we continue with raised poles, carrot stretches and little bits on the chambon. But I do worry that with his age (he is rising 23) he is too far gone to turn around top-line wise. I am going to give it over the winter doing what we are doing then re-assess the back situation with the physio to see if there is enough improvement to attempt finding a saddle that we can use just to get him out and about again. He hates schooling but loves his hacking.

Has anyone else managed to bring a horse back/turn one around with a similar issue, or has any advice to offer?

We have 26 year old livery year with dippped back still lightly ridden

 

[Under-the-radar]

I had to move to a treeless several years ago as my mares back was quite dipped. However - this was not a muscle wastage symptom - but a long backed ex brood mare. Her back has progressively got more dipped over the years - but she has remained fit and sound throughout.

I have been riding her in a HM Flexee saddle for the last 3 years - this has flexed quite significantly but flexes with her shape. In the last 3 years she has progressed from prelim to medium level dressage, and will pop a few jumps here and there. She has also taken part in BRC quadrille for the last 3 years, qualifying for the finals at Olympia last year and the finals at Bury Farm this year.

I have now retired her from competition sound - she will still be hacking and doing fun rides and beach rides etc. She is not going to be getting unfit or stopping work.

I found the Barefoot saddles really useful with her back shape - but you need to be hot on checking the fit / shimming very regularly.

 

[Orangehorse]

My saddler fitted a prolite pad underneath the saddle to lift it slightly and it also allowed his muscles to work correctly under the saddle, and I can see that it has made an improvement to his back.

 

[HandBR]

I am really interested in the treeless option, but don't trust myself to know whether or not it is fitting right. We have a resident saddle fitter on the yard but she has said she would be clueless with a treeless and I don't want to put her in a difficult position. I am absolutely paranoid about ill-fitting saddles!

The more I think about the more I am concerned it is likely to be Cushings and will be getting him re-tested so at least I can rule it in or out and in the meantime will continue with the walk work and add in a tail bandage round his back end to encourage him to round as much as possible. Will try getting him to step backwards with the carrot stretched and scratch his tummy to get him to lift!

 

[pennyturner]

If a horse is worth riding, it is worth finding a saddle that fits!
Second hand saddles have never been so cheap, and you WILL be able to find one that fits, if you're careful. Our 30+ Dartmoor improved in shape massively with a new saddle in his 20s, as his old one no longer fit, and was making his dippy back worse. Still being ridden, and loving life. (His new saddle cost about £50, and has bought at least 8 years of happy hacking!).

The one we put him in was a little Lionel Dunning show saddle. Gorgeous, and probably too good to use for hacking out novice kiddies, but with a very cut-back head, short panels and straight cut, it relieved the pressure behind his withers, which was what he needed.

 

[HandBR]

Ooops just replied to your other thread - just to say very interesting article! He needs protein!!