Older horse with tooth problems

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I know I'm a vet, but I'm not a horse vet so I'm calling on the greater wisdom and experience of the forum. I hope you can help!

Anyway, my old boy Dan has issues. Nothing new there That horse is always causing me issues. He has always had good teeth - I have had them routinely rasped every year and he's never needed much doing except this year because I missed last year due to various issues so they were a bit sharp, but nothing major. Vet rasped them under sedation and they felt fine afterwards. This was in Feb. He is on retirement livery and I see him every few wks - he was fine last time I saw him - good condition, no probs eating. Went to see him on Wed and noticed he was quidding bits of carrot which is very unlike him. Also noticed that he has dropped off a bit of weight recently which is extremely unlike Dan especially an out of work, out 24/7 in big field Dan. He has always had a lumpy jaw - in between the bottom jaw bones, it's always felt a bit thickened, but I had a feel on Wed and he had loads of big lumps, much more than usual - they're not over the jaw bones themselves, but in the tissue between them.

Anyway, vet checked him out today and thinks it could be tooth related as his teeth are sharp again and she thinks the swellings could be abscesses. It's not even been 4mths since he was rasped so I'm a bit surprised they are sharp again but it could fit with the quidding and weight loss, although he wasn't quidding or losing weight in Feb when they were really quite sharp. I'm not convinced it's just sharp edges. It is possible at his age that the teeth are starting to come loose from the jaw and he is going to start losing them, although I thought at 22 he was a bit young for this to be happening

Anyway, vet has recommended I start by taking bloods and then sedating him and having his teeth rasped again. More £££ - blasted pony - always giving me something to worry about.

So, anyway I was just wondering if anyone had any experiences of tooth root abscesses, losing cheek teeth and what age this happens, or of lumpy tissue between the jaw bones?
 
Hmm... can't help with the possible abcesses/lumps, but older horses teeth shouldn't be rasped by hand. It causes too much rocking of potentially already loose teeth. They need to be filed down with power tools. I wonder if the problems that you are experiencing are from an overly vigorous rasping last time.
 
My boy started losing teeth about 5 years ago aged 28.

They get sharp more quickly when they're loose because the wear from chewing becomes uneven.

His front teeth are fine (touch wood
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) but he now only has one molar on one side and a pair (top and bottom) on the other. This has meant that he can't manage to chew long fibre (such as hay) but is fine on grass and can eat Readygrass when in.

The gaps also means he quids more but has got very good at hoovering the area once he's finished whats in the bucket!!
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I would go with the abscess theory too - I had a pony a few years ago who developed one at 17 years old, she had been regularly rasped by the vet but it still happened, took a while to shift the infection and she lost a lot of condiiton
 
very difficult to say without seeing but to be honest at 22, they shouldnt be falling out. Yes they will start to expire (cup out, where the enamel has expired leaving a cementum surface with no grinding surface and sounds squeeky).
If he has always had good dentistry it could be a possibility that he has acquired diastemas (gaps) between his teeth and got gingivitus/periodontal disease and possibly lead to an abcess. It is perfectly normal for diastemas to appear later on in life due to the reserve crown (crown below the gum line) is narrower and as the horse gets older the gaps appear where the wider younger tooth has worn away.
Diastemas are really easy to miss in a dental examination and are usually only picked up by a v experienced practitioner using a headlight and dental pick. Otherwise they are easy to miss!!!
 
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I would go with the abscess theory too - I had a pony a few years ago who developed one at 17 years old, she had been regularly rasped by the vet but it still happened, took a while to shift the infection and she lost a lot of condiiton

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can you tell me how you diagnosed and treated it?
 
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very difficult to say without seeing but to be honest at 22, they shouldnt be falling out. Yes they will start to expire (cup out, where the enamel has expired leaving a cementum surface with no grinding surface and sounds squeeky).
If he has always had good dentistry it could be a possibility that he has acquired diastemas (gaps) between his teeth and got gingivitus/periodontal disease and possibly lead to an abcess. It is perfectly normal for diastemas to appear later on in life due to the reserve crown (crown below the gum line) is narrower and as the horse gets older the gaps appear where the wider younger tooth has worn away.
Diastemas are really easy to miss in a dental examination and are usually only picked up by a v experienced practitioner using a headlight and dental pick. Otherwise they are easy to miss!!!

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thanks - i will make sure we have a good look for diastemas when we have him sedated. what is the management for these?
 
Diastemas:
Depends on the type of diastema. Search on google for an image of closed and open diastemas. It is difficult to explain but closed diastemas are more problematic because there will appear to be a gap between the teeth at the gumline and no gap at the occlusal surface therefore, difficult to diagnose and more feedpacking and chance of infection as the feed is so densly impacted in this gap. Solution is a relief cut at the surface of the tooth to create a "channel" for the food to "flow" through without getting impacted. Relief cuts are difficult as you have to avoid many pulp chamers in the tooth itself.
open diastemas you just have to have dentistry every 4 months or so to have the impacted feed flushed out with a pic and antiseptic solution.
Diastemas are EXTREMELY painful for horses and occur frequently in older horses. You can have a mouth with no sharp points at all but the diastemas can and will cause a horse to stop eating. Hope this helps!
 
My old mare had to have a tooth out at 22 as it was starting to become lose which made her quid and loose weight. She was much better after having the tooth out and put weight back on. She has since lost another as the surrounding teeth lose their opposit tooth support. She thankfully hasn't lost any more and is able to eat and keep weight on. I now have a fantastic equine dentist too.

Hope you find the cause and all is well.
 
My old TB mare is 25 and has lost 2 teeth. She has her teeth checked twice a year and looks well on a senior conditioning mix and ad lib haylage/grass. Thanks for the information about diastemas Victoria EDT, I have never heard of these but will look out for them. Hope Dan is okay Star.
 
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