Ollie T interview

I'd guess that most riders don't survive just by competing though, whatever there discipline most do clinics/demos/teaching as part of their profession.

popsdosh, maybe naive but I was thinking along the lines of if it was a case of face fitting zara would be going for the added publicity that brings regardless of the strength of her current horsepower. I think (might not be right!) there is also the 'problem' of owners sending horses to riders that are more likely to get an international run, which compounds the problem of the greater horsepower ending up in the same people's hands.

At the end of the day we have a lot of good eventers, there aren't that many spaces on a team, some are going to be disappointed and surely it would be questionable for the selectors to overlook the old guard, with current horsepower if they are getting the results :rolleyes:. Same with show jumping really.
 
Interesting thread :) I agree with those who say the rather jaundiced attitude comes far more from the journalist, who clearly has a very "well-defined" view of equestrianism in general and eventing in particular. You can agree or disagree with his opionion: my view is that nothing is ever black and white - there is some truth in what he says but also quite a bit of nonsense :D Oli's own quotes are perfectly unobjectionable to me, but have been used in a way to present a particular point of view.

Of course it matters whether your face fits in international selection matters - same in every sport, same in every country - nothing new there. However, it is extremely simplistic to suggest that in eventing it is all about whether you have inherited wealth! Purely based on evidence, Oli has consistently done better when riding for himself that he has in senior team Championships: I don't know the reason for this, I can speculate but I could be quite wrong. However, this record is bound to count against him when he is on the periphery for Olympic selection.

Lastly, regarding the demi-God who asked for £5000 for a clinic: several of the most elite British riders actually don't much like teaching, and are currently incredibly pushed for time. Easier, in many ways, under these circumstances to quote a ludicrous price for a clinic than refuse point blank, safe in the knowledge that no sane college would be willing/able to pay it.
 
I can hazard an accurate guess at which demi-god it was. possibly the same one who a volunteer told me they heard (direct, not told the story) ask an Organiser why they bother to provide packed lunches and drinks for Fence Judges etc, as 'they should bring their own to keep your costs down' (i'm paraphrasing, but that was the general gist)... yes, thanks for that, giving up a whole day and petrol costs etc isn't enough then?!

tbh i think re the 'face fits' thing, maybe i'm being naive but i believe that if anyone has a good enough track record and does really well in the 4*s before a Champs and the final trial, with no whoopsies, and a demonstrably sound horse, they'll get on the team. the latter point is HUGELY important, we've seen the results (in the last 20 years) of taking fantastic combinations with a question mark over the horse's soundness to the Olympics, and it has cost us very dear...
must admit i don't see him as vying with Piggy for the fourth slot (no mention of the fifth, sloppy journalism there), i think there are a few others with bigger claims to a place at present, but let's see what happens over the next month!
 
Kiribati_uk said:
Well I do........but hey i'm only an event groom.
Love how everyone takes whats written in the papers as gospel, I'm not an Ollie groupie BUT i work in eventing so see it for a different angle.
As for doing two star at 17... so must be from moneyed family....rubbish.
As for being done for drink driving he is a complete MUPPET of the highest order!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yep I agree.

Dont believe everything that is written in a paper. It is someone else's spin on a story, not nec. the truth or what was actually said.
 
kerilli said:
tbh i think re the 'face fits' thing, maybe i'm being naive but i believe that if anyone has a good enough track record and does really well in the 4*s before a Champs and the final trial, with no whoopsies, and a demonstrably sound horse, they'll get on the team. the latter point is HUGELY important, we've seen the results (in the last 20 years) of taking fantastic combinations with a question mark over the horse's soundness to the Olympics, and it has cost us very dear...
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My point exactly PF made it impossible not to be selected for the championships,however to most peoples surprise did not make the team but got Silver individually.When interviewed after the event the team management barely mentioned this achievement.It is a shame but the team is nearly a closed shop and to be honest its always been so.
I once overheard a high profile team rider standing watching a dressage test say to the owner that their horse would make the team with them.To the owners credit they said it wasnt going to happen!
 
kerilli said:
I can hazard an accurate guess at which demi-god it was. possibly the same one who a volunteer told me they heard (direct, not told the story) ask an Organiser why they bother to provide packed lunches and drinks for Fence Judges etc, as 'they should bring their own to keep your costs down' (i'm paraphrasing, but that was the general gist)... yes, thanks for that, giving up a whole day and petrol costs etc isn't enough then?!
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I'll be surprised if it is the same TBH, if all the fans and publicity surrounding them are right, it doesn't sound like her at all. ;)
 
The fees for top name riders to do clinics are very high, higher than most people seem to think, gauging from how many people assume organisers are raking it in for putting them on. And I'd agree, for many riders who would rather not, it makes more sense to quote a price that's "worth their time" if they're not bothered about doing it either way.

Public people all have "an image" (increasingly consciously manipulated) and journalism is not objective. I don't think you really can get an accurate feel of someone from their press - I know quite a few people whose personal selves don't line up with their public image. I'm constantly amazed at the idea that people who run fast or ride a horse well or hit the high notes should be "better" people than the rest of us or, if not, they're villains. No intervening steps. Mostly they are very ordinary people (good, bad, a mix of the two) in rather extraordinary situations, and behave accordingly.

In OT's case he has actively courted the idea of being The Outsider, the Poor Kid, and that can work for or against, like any other image. As above, he didn't really "come from nothing" in a horsey sense but he's hardly the only person to be cast that way. Look how badly people want singers to have "struggled" and don't want to hear they had a nice middle class upbringing in the 'burbs somewhere. Getting to the top in anything involves struggling.

I'd be curious to know what he thinks of the article. I also get the sense it doesn't really reflect what he meant but he's hardly the first person to have that experience. People who write things like that almost always go in with an agenda (horsey press included - I have personal experience) and are looking to support it. And, as in all things, people do have their favourites, rightly or wrongly, who can do no wrong while others struggle to get a look in.
 
I aggree with Tarrsteps OT probally talked to the journalist for some time and a journalist whose job it is to tease out quotes can easily push the the interviewee in the direction they want .
OT definatly has a public persona and will have to ride that whirlwind now, I have attended some clinics with him and as a teacher he is very horse friendly makes it easy for the horse to learn and can assess a horses character very quickly and accurately he comes across as someone who really likes horses.
I have to say he was not what I expected having attended those clinics I have have far more time for him than if I based my opinion of him just on his media profile.
 
kerilli said:
tbh i think re the 'face fits' thing, maybe i'm being naive but i believe that if anyone has a good enough track record and does really well in the 4*s before a Champs and the final trial, with no whoopsies, and a demonstrably sound horse, they'll get on the team. the latter point is HUGELY important, we've seen the results (in the last 20 years) of taking fantastic combinations with a question mark over the horse's soundness to the Olympics, and it has cost us very dear...
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I agree with this; to be fair I have rarely thought that the selectors have left an obvious choice at home. Oli most certainly was not left at home when he was consistently performing at the highest level with the required horse power.

Eventing is a tough game and everyone goes through ups and downs. The only 2 with the horse power to be almost guaranteed a slot are William and Mary - one of whom made it to the top from nothing, both of whom work exceptionally hard and are at the top of their game.
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The selection/"face fits" thing is complex. Look, everyone, selectors/Team Management included (most of all!) wants the team to be as successful as possible. However, selection is tricky in most cases. Take this time around: 5 slots, 4 pretty much pick themselves based on recent 4* form. That leaves one slot free, and maybe 4 or 5 riders who have at least some legitimate claim to it (or did, one notable candidate crashed and burned last weekend...) THAT is the situation where the face fitting becomes relevant, where the decision is marginal...

ETA: And I am quite sympathetic to the need for team members to fit in up to a point: anyone who has been on any sort of team with a disruptive team member will know just how destructive it can be. The Hong Kong experience doesn't seem to have been a very happy one, which illustrates how it's not just riders but owners, grooms, support team and the whole shebang which need to gel together sufficiently to provide the right environment for success. It is a fascinating and challenging topic :)
 
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And lets face it - if, as a selector, you have watched someone come up through the ranks, invested a lot of time, money and energy in them through ponies/juniors/YR, then it's natural that a) you want your decision to back them to be proven right by them making senior teams and b) you feel they are a safer bet because they already understand your programme.
 
Very much agree with TD - Team selection is a tricky process and while personal connections do come in to play, don't forget the people doing the picking want to win as much as anyone else. You are lucky enough here to have choices but with that situation comes differences of opinion.

Coming from a country where usually teams are essentially stuck with whomever has qualified, I can tell you NOT having that luxury can lead to some epic conflicts. And speaking as someone whose tax dollars and membership money has paid for some of those experiences I have been seriously unhappy from time to time with who has benefited!! ;) One of the things David O'Connor has brought to that program is an insistence that people get with the program and results would suggest it's worked. This does not mean micromanaging - historically many countries did work that way but modern competition doesn't lend itself to it as well -but it does mean team selection will have a bias towards people whose programs dovetail more easily, all things being equal.
 
popsdosh said:
I dont see what the problem is ,a few people always want to knock Ollie.
I am not sure if they are jealous or what! I think 95% of people on here would have done the same if they had the chance.He has worked hard all his life to achieve what he has, it has not been on a platter for him and he got the breaks because of his talent for riding horses and no other reason.KC does not have idiots as stable jockey and how many of you criticising would have the guts to take on a yard at 21 and work your butt off to make it pay.
I have said it before on here ,I personally do not know anybody else in eventing I would trust more and tell you straight about your horse.He has always taken on horses nobody else would touch and get results from them.This sometimes makes people antagonistic towards him ,I always think very similar to the way Martin Pipe was viewed in racing when he first came on the scene.
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I just wanted to quote last paragraph, horses nobody else wanted to touch, get better results from.....Ashdale Cruise Master is all I will write.
 
lar said:
Well he's not doing himself any favours this week is he? What with this and the story in Latest News.

Equestrianism likes those who inherit do they? What did Mary King inherit exactly? Except a huge amount of talent, driving amibtion AND (take note Mr Townend) the personality to deal with the setbacks with the same grace as she deals with the triumphs. That article just makes him come over as another Yorkshireman with a big chip on his shoulder
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Agree . . . and that's why MK is always a crowd favourite . . . her wonderful attitude always shines through and you get the sense that she knows how fortunate she is to be at the top and that she accepts the defeats/losses as her own/part of the sport/working with horses . . . I've never forgotten her falling off the penultimate fence at Badminton(?) when in the lead and getting to her feet and bowing/smiling to the crowd. Sheer class all the way.

P
 
TableDancer said:
The selection/"face fits" thing is complex. Look, everyone, selectors/Team Management included (most of all!) wants the team to be as successful as possible. However, selection is tricky in most cases. Take this time around: 5 slots, 4 pretty much pick themselves based on recent 4* form. That leaves one slot free, and maybe 4 or 5 riders who have at least some legitimate claim to it (or did, one notable candidate crashed and burned last weekend...) THAT is the situation where the face fitting becomes relevant, where the decision is marginal...

ETA: And I am quite sympathetic to the need for team members to fit in up to a point: anyone who has been on any sort of team with a disruptive team member will know just how destructive it can be. The Hong Kong experience doesn't seem to have been a very happy one, which illustrates how it's not just riders but owners, grooms, support team and the whole shebang which need to gel together sufficiently to provide the right environment for success. It is a fascinating and challenging topic :)
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I agree with every word here.

The other thing no-one seems to have mentioned is owners. The owners in this sport have such a considerable input, after all they finance these horses and choose riders and are either loyal to those riders (or not as the case may be).

I don't know OT at all, don't have strong feelings either way. Have admired a couple of amazing examples of riding and cringed at some others. Such is life.

He seems to attract the more quirky/difficult horses. Perhaps he needs to evaluate why he isn't being approached with more potential now/future team horses? Maybe he is, but I just don't know about it?
 
TableDancer said:
most elite British riders actually don't much like teaching, and are currently incredibly pushed for time. Easier, in many ways, under these circumstances to quote a ludicrous price for a clinic than refuse point blank, safe in the knowledge that no sane college would be willing/able to pay it.
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I know he's not a British rider but he is based here, but Dan Jocelyn gives his time willingly to those who want to learn from him. Two women from my yard had a clinic with him when he had time on his hands b/c Badminton was cancelled . . . they enjoyed it so much they went back a second time with another yard mate and Dan's wife made them lunch and now they are going back again to spend the weekend at Dan's (in his house) to get a really intensive course. And the cost is beyond reasonable.

Not all top elite riders hate teaching . . . nor are they eager to fleece those who want to learn from them.

P
 
I think the fundemental problem/point of the article is that it is not possible to be an elite equestrian, keep your best horses, have a good lifestyle on talent/good luck alone.

Didn't Pippa Funnel say that she could not have survived as a pro rider had she not married WF - and this was after winning Badminton (I may have made that up, but think the quote was along those lines)

The sport is funded by rich people, (which is also I suppose true of football), but there is no middle ground in equestrianism in the UK, if you want to be rich and ride for a living, have rich parents. In other countries you can make a good living working with horses, we need to change I think.
 
PolarSkye said:
Not all top elite riders hate teaching . . . nor are they eager to fleece those who want to learn from them.

P
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I really take exception to the fact that you have chosen to misquote me :mad:

What I actally said was "Several of the most elite British riders..." Ok, most elite is probably a tortology for which I apologise, but I certainly never said or implied that most British elite riders don't enjoy teaching :eek: :eek: :eek:

Asking £5,000 from an institution for a service they have requested is hardly fleecing, either. They have the choice of going ahead or not, in full knowledge of the facts. I reiterate, my strong belief is that the rider concerned had no real wish to do the clinic in the first place and therefore quoted a clearly unreasonable price. It's only the same as when someone asks if you will sell a horse you don't really want to part with, you quote a completely unrealistic pricef in the hope they will go away. If they agree this price and buy the horse, have you fleeced them? I don't believe so. Fleecing is taking advantage of someone's ignorance and cheating them in some way.

Glad your friends had fun with Dan. I hope he donated at least some of the fees he took for the lessons to Claire Lomas's walk fund for Spinal Research - many of the top riders used the unexpected time off that weekend to walk with her :)
 
And let's face it, 'suicide bids' are hardly uncommon in the world of business! I do it, everyone I know does it - you get asked to quote for a job where it would be unwise, politically or for any other reason, not to bid but you don't want the job, so you shove in an unreasonably high bid and hope you don't win the work. If you do, the £ make up for the fact you didn't want it in the first place!!

I went to a conference recently where one of the topics of conversation over lunch was 'suicide bids' you ended up winning!!

ETA: I'm using 'bids' in the same way as 'quotes' here rather than implying that people are actually attempting suicide! ;)
 
Maesfen said:
I'll be surprised if it is the same TBH, if all the fans and publicity surrounding them are right, it doesn't sound like her at all. ;)
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that's what i thought... ;) ;)

good points about everyone on the team/squad getting along. I know of a Team trip many years ago to the Europeans where tensions ran very very high between 2 grooms and their 2 horses' riders because one wanted the radio ON to settle their horse, the other wanted the radio OFF because their horse liked peace and quiet. sounds minor but became major!

that's great to hear about Dan Jocelyn and his wife, good to know!
 
kerilli said:
that's what i thought... ;) ;)

good points about everyone on the team/squad getting along. I know of a Team trip many years ago to the Europeans where tensions ran very very high between 2 grooms and their 2 horses' riders because one wanted the radio ON to settle their horse, the other wanted the radio OFF because their horse liked peace and quiet. sounds minor but became major!

that's great to hear about Dan Jocelyn and his wife, good to know!
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Oh, and PolarSkye talks of MK's 'sheer class' - for me it was seeing her face just after King William had skittled out, iirc, 7 showjumps at a Champs... and she was smiling and patting him. That was a real Rudyard Kipling "If" moment... "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster and treat those two impostors just the same..." No toys out of pram moments there.

oops, meant to edit, got it wrong, sorry!
 
I actually think it is an alright article and you have to consider that it is written to attract a wider audience than just horse people interested in three day eventing so it has to have an angle.
 
kerilli said:
that's what i thought... ;) ;)

good points about everyone on the team/squad getting along. I know of a Team trip many years ago to the Europeans where tensions ran very very high between 2 grooms and their 2 horses' riders because one wanted the radio ON to settle their horse, the other wanted the radio OFF because their horse liked peace and quiet. sounds minor but became major!

that's great to hear about Dan Jocelyn and his wife, good to know!
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It does make for a better team spirit if everyone gets on and a better environment for giving your best without coping with unnecessary aggro. The perceived troublemaker is not always the one who causes the problem, they can be on the receiving end and the instigator is in fact the one who is seen as Mr/Mrs Perfect. This can easily lead to the so-called bad boy under-performing and being under pressure. If this is a known situation then the sensible selection is one who isn't in that position.
It's interesting your perception of Mary's reaction to falling off or having fences down when in a winning position where others behave in a totally opposing manner. To some the smiling and waving is intensely irritating and the opposite is perhaps a more natural reaction. Each to his own!
 
oldvic said:
It does make for a better team spirit if everyone gets on and a better environment for giving your best without coping with unnecessary aggro. The perceived troublemaker is not always the one who causes the problem, they can be on the receiving end and the instigator is in fact the one who is seen as Mr/Mrs Perfect. This can easily lead to the so-called bad boy under-performing and being under pressure. If this is a known situation then the sensible selection is one who isn't in that position.
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Ah, interesting. Yes, I'm sure there can be manipulation of the situation etc etc...
oldvic said:
It's interesting your perception of Mary's reaction to falling off or having fences down when in a winning position where others behave in a totally opposing manner. To some the smiling and waving is intensely irritating and the opposite is perhaps a more natural reaction. Each to his own!
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Hmm, never thought of that. It looks like supremely good sportsmanship to me (even if it is a facade... i really don't know. perhaps inside she is seething?) but i guess it is an unusually positive reaction to disaster, and therefore might be seen as looking false, maybe? never thought of it that way before.
 
There used to be a very good dressage rider who smiled all the time, no matter what was going on. I actually found her a very hard rider/trainer but it was interesting that she was never perceived that way outside of a very small circle. She came from a performance background and I suspect it was simply a habit that had been trained into her from childhood.

I also know a showjumper who is renowned for being friendly and cheery but is, in fact, a rather unpleasant person, cheats regularly on his wife etc. and another who has a rep for being sullen and hard on his horses, because he always looks a bit grumpy but is actually quite lovely and helpful. A lot depends on what sort of 'game face' people have, and if they are naturally shy or outgoing. You can't always judge by looking.

Which is not to say smiley people aren't lovely, just that sometimes un-smiley people are, too.
 
I suppose it's because if you do do what you feel like (was it Daniel Sibley at Burghley last year who had the most unlucky fall after a round that was going so well, in the main arena- he whacked his whip on the ground a few times and stamped his foot in what was a totally acceptable display of fury/ disappointment) you get slated...

ETA- TarrSteps, on very local level my sister did a lot of dancing/ dance exams when she was younger and had it hammered into her to smile, regardless. If you went flat on your face, you had to do it with a proper, teeth-showing grin. She stills does this smile whilst competing... Makes her look somewhat psychopathic when it's going tits up and she's hanging round pony's neck.
 
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This woman also came from a dance background, in fact, she'd been in her mother's dance company since she was a toddler. Her mother was a seriously tough piece of work and I heard from some people in the dance world she was known for smiling sweetly and carrying herself with perfect deportment, even as she was being terrifying. :D
 
Lolo said:
I suppose it's because if you do do what you feel like (was it Daniel Sibley at Burghley last year who had the most unlucky fall after a round that was going so well, in the main arena- he whacked his whip on the ground a few times and stamped his foot in what was a totally acceptable display of fury/ disappointment) you get slated...

ETA- TarrSteps, on very local level my sister did a lot of dancing/ dance exams when she was younger and had it hammered into her to smile, regardless. If you went flat on your face, you had to do it with a proper, teeth-showing grin. She stills does this smile whilst competing... Makes her look somewhat psychopathic when it's going tits up and she's hanging round pony's neck.
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Yes Lolo but is it wrong to show emotion? I personally don't have a problem with a reaction like Daniel's. I find it quite healthy - if it helps him, fine. Better the ground than the horse. There are some top riders that it's best to avoid for an hour or three after **** happening! Others are taught not to show their feelings in public which is good but ....
Yes, TarrStepps, a question of don't always judge a book by it's cover. What you see is what you get is so much easier!!
 
It's refreshing to see that others have also seen the other side to well known riders whose public face isn't anything like they portray when not "on camera" Certainly there are a fair few who'd do better to avoid the bars instead of pleading poverty!
 
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