Olli's comment

There is absolutely no comparison with AT, what a load of boloxs! She deliberately carried on when her horse was injured, totally different kettle of fish.
We are talking about people at the lower end of the dressage marks (including some of your team and experienced riders) thinking it's not worth continuing which is a totally defeatist attitude and a very bad example to other young competitors. It's about time they grew up and acted responsibly for their sport, not cried off cos it doesn't suit them!
 
wot oli meant was that if there was a chance of winning then he might chance his horse a cross the country but if theres no chance of winning or being in the top ten then wots the point of risking his horse?
 
I think thats unfair, yesterday i wasn't going to run in a PN because we weren't in a position to get placed and the ground was rock hard. As it happened i went round very slowly, seriously slowly for the school.

If you've got a potential team horse who isn't up there and ready to go clear and stay up there then its a big gamble to run it, not necessarily climb up and end up wtih a problem.

Whilst no one want problems with legs/hard ground, if this is the horse's main 1 event for the year and its in with a good chance you may be more likely to gamble than if you're down the ranking. Again a gamble as the horse may climb up and win, may not suffer from the ground etc etc.

If Badminton don't want riders to withdraw its very simple they need to sort their ground, its too late now to do anything but they've had all year.......

The horses suffer from this lack of preparation, the riders suffer which means the spectators and sponsors do. They're running a business which has to provide the goods - this year they've failed on the going.
 
Which is exactly what I said in my first post on this thread I believe
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So it's worth risking the horse over the ground if you have a chance of winning but otherwise why bother?

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And his comments did not mention placings, but not being in a position to win much prize money. I still feel that if their concerns are for the horses due to the ground conditions then the placings should make no difference to their decision to run or to withdraw.
 
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wot oli meant was that if there was a chance of winning then he might chance his horse a cross the country but if theres no chance of winning or being in the top ten then wots the point of risking his horse?

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but as proved by WFP there is very much still a chance to get in top ten. Last year WFP withdrew after his dressage which left him about 12th i believe saying he had no chance of getting in top 3. The end result meant that if he had stayed on his dressage score (which was very possible as was Tam he withdrew) he would have been 2nd as only one horse being Over To You (or was it two!?) managed to finish on their dressage scores.

I agree i have no issue with riders withdrawing due to hard ground i do have issue with riders withdrawing just because they can't win. No body knows what the end result will be till every horse completes. Just look at Rolex where Kristin Bachman was eliminated for jumping the wrong SJ course. Had she not she would have won. Would anyone have predicted that happening? no therefore if the ground is good enough to try win on in my mind its good enough full stop.
 
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guessin uve never ridden at badders so therfore u have no idea wot actually goes on behind the scenes. wud u run ure precious little donkey on going like the M6?

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Yet Oli has said nothing about withdrawing one of his 'precious little donkeys' from the competition, the one that is currently in 11th place......
 
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guessin uve never ridden at badders so therfore u have no idea wot actually goes on behind the scenes. wud u run ure precious little donkey on going like the M6?

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How do you know I have no idea as to what goes on behind the scenes? And I do not have a donkey, I have a horse, and I would never withdraw a horse because I had failed to get a decent dressage score - which is what we are talking about.
 
Does anyone think that riders/owners are showing particular hesitation in this situation because of the current climate re: the AT situation? I have to say if I had a horse running this weekend I would be very leery of running it because if ANYTHING happened that could even slightly be attributed to the going I would fear a lynch mob.

There is a lot at stake here and these people are under a lot of pressure at a time when really all they should be thinking about is jumping around a course that the vast majority of riders wouldn't tackle under any circumstances. They have investors and sponsors and organisers and fans all wanting them to run for the greater glory of the sport and the business. By and large these are not wealthy people who can easily afford to just shrug their shoulders and walk away without considering the business aspects. I know this sounds heartless but look at the people on here pushing for the show to run because they've bought tickets and wanting refunds if it doesn't even though the costs have already been incured. Don't they care about the welfare of the horses? If the rider is already poorly placed then there is just that little bit less pressure because there is no way they'll be able to return on all the investments anyway. I don't think it's that they don't care, I think it's that, as mentioned, they are weighing the pros and cons. I would love for this not to be a business but it is. That's what attracts the trade fair and pays for Radio Badminton and allows every other aspect of this event - and a thousand related circumstances - to flourish.

Also keep in mind that there are future team placings and qualifications at stake. I AGREE people should not run if they fear for their horses but who knows if their connections will remember that when their horse doesn't qualify for something because it hasn't completed a 4*. This should NOT be a consideration but it has to enter people's minds that their greater standing in the sport might be riding on such a prestigious event. What if someone withdraws and the feeling is that makes them "not tough enough"? It's much easier to duck that judgement if you can just say you're saving the horse for another day.

I agree whole heartedly that if it's not good enough to go then standing after dressage should have no bearing. But I think it's naive to say that's the only factor in play. What about the value of the horse? What about the money put out by supporters that will never be regained? What about people who want to see a particular hero win the day? Not everyone is going to have the opinion and I fear many people right now, given any excuse, would prefer to withdraw from the risk completely rather than face the wrath if they make the wrong choice.
 
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And what about the public who pay the entry fees to allow such a god purse of prize money
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And what about those riders who would kill to go round Badminton but were balloted out so that people like Oli can take two horses...
 
I agree with Vicijp. As a part owner of a point to point horse we have had to make very difficult decisions over the last few weeks. After a rather traumatic first run, our horse then performed very promisingly and we were excited about his next race. However, at that point the rain dried up and race after race was on hard ground. One day we even took the horse in the box in the hope of racing, but eventually didn't run as the ground wasn't as good as we hoped.

It is particularly irksome when you hear a commentator saying how disappointed the sponsor is because their race turns out to have one entrant in it. But do they really expect people to risk their horses' soundness just to keep the sponsors happy
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. I can understand how difficult it is to keep the ground right in these unusual weather conditions, but I can quite understand why people don't want to risk injuring their horses!

Surely we want to encourage people to put their horses' welfare first - especially in the light of the Amy Tryon affair.

However, I do agree the decision to run a horse should be made on whether it would damage the horse to run - I think the chances of winning should be taken out of the equation.
 
hm... its not sportsman like... BUT... I think it might be in the back of anyones minds if they had done well and were in that situation.
 
But is the whole thing becoming too precious?

30 yrs ago people didn't frequently withdraw from prestigious events for such reasons. In those days you didn't have copious course watering for 72hrs before hand and the Equivator running for days.

Maybe horses do more events these days than they did then, but then they didn't have the medical advances we have now. I think people are so worried about what the general public might perceive that the general consensus is to pull out and not risk it.
 
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30 yrs ago people didn't frequently withdraw from prestigious events for such reasons. In those days you didn't have copious course watering for 72hrs before hand and the Equivator running for days.


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The ground was probably a lot better for it too. Firm ground is a lot better for horses than badly watered ground.
If Badminton really have only watered for the last 72 hours then they really need to grow a brain, if I was involved with the sport in any way I would be writing complaints.
Ground needs watering every day - little and often, for it to sink in and actually do some good. A lot of P to P courses have been watering for 10 + days lately, and are still only just raceable.
The Equivators are good as a last resort. Used just before the turf is due to be used they lift up the ground and reduce the jar underneath. Use them too soon and all they do is let the air in and dry it out even more. If you have an adequate watering system then to be used 1/2 times a week would probably help, but definetly not 'running for days'.
The people running this prestigious event sound in desperate need of being educated - send them on work experience at Aintree.
 
I assumed that the motivation for riders withdrawing their horses if they weren't doing well enough was that Badminton is a very strenuous and more than a little bit dangerous, and it was more in their interests to protect their top horses for future events (isn't there something coming up soon?) than run.
'Lesser' riders probably have more to prove and are willing to go for the ride.
I hadn't thought of the other aspects; the public spectacle, etc, etc (but I can be remarkably dim!!)
 
But 30 years ago how often would you reach the first weekend in May having had no rain for 6 weeks?

By all means withdraw to save your horses legs on hard ground, not because you did badly in the dressage and are throwing your toys out the pram.
 
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