Olymoics and Horse and Hound

Cue Lucretia!!
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i think they just stated the facts and the London public were very much against this.

Now they seem to have reinforced their actual view.

or perhaps theyre just going with the majority
 
I actually bought the magazine so i could read this properly!!
Horse and Hound are now clearly toeing the party line, although they never really objected just printed the views (to an extent) of those that were.
However here are a few points to note in their presentation.
1 the KPMG report did NOT conclude the park is the 'best and cheapest option' as an unqualified statement. it said in fact, that the it would cost more money to change the plan at this late stage, which is not the same thing at all. The trouble was when London bid, they thought Paris would get the Games, so less deep thought was put into certain areas as long as the bid 'looked good'. Therefore several venues have had to be amended already when London did win. Richmond for example could have worked just as well. Much larger, at the end of a motorway already, well within London and fairly fantastic views of various listed buildings and the Millenium Wheel and already very horsey.
2 all the PR cafefull shows pictures taken from the Oueens House side of the park with its undoubted spectacular view. Sadly a great deal of the XC course will not be on that side of the hill and therefore will get the not quite so iconic view of the flats in Blackheath.
3. size comparrisons with Hong Kong are completely misleading. Beas River's 92 acres ONLY had to have the XC course in it. The horses were shipped there from their stabling at Sha Tin, which is where all the excercise facilities wre located.
4. the current plans (which i appreiciate are likely to change) do not have room for the required excercise arena's unless they are the size of postage stamps) nor the 1000 meter gallop track required by the FEI/IOC. The park is only 1000 metres widest point.
5. There are no appropriate natural water features in the park, any such will have to be dug.
6. Despite working with an aboriculturist, which is too be applauded, this will not prevent severe pruning at the very least, of a number of trees (the oldest in the london area) and some will probably be felled entirely as they will either be in the way of the course or the tv camera's.
7. NOGOE have no objection to the dressage and showjumping taking place in the park, it is the XC course they object to. Currently the course also runs through the formal garden which was never in the original plan.
8. Unlike Sha Tin there is no immediately available world class veterinary facility already on site. Either this will need to be built (not on current plan AT ALL) or any major injuries will involve a journey through London durng an Olympic Games. the easiest to reach will probably currently be Bell Equine (ne need to do M25 to reach it) or Royal Vet College (M25 and Dartford Crossing) in the way.
9. As for legancy's this is my biggest concern. Every horse person knows that equestianism is top of the IOC hit list despite Princess Haya being a horse person. Great Britain could be said to be one of the most 'horsey' nations on the planet. Therefore what hope is there of horses stying an Olympic Sport if even we CANNOT spend the money required, EVEN IN PART on some sort of facility that will have a use after the Games. I know the IOC is trying to move away from the 'lasting legancy' idea in certain areas. But in this case it is even worse that ignoring that. Greenwich is a World Heritage Site. They will not be able to restore it to it's current status entirely without spending MILLIONS. The local residents have NO INTEREST in horse sport, except in a perfunctory manner and most of them couldnt afford to indulge in it if they did (Did the H and H party take a tour round the residential areas on the other side of the park? I think not.). So if we do this, we provide all the opponents of Horse sport with all the ammunition they need to get equestrian out. So great, lets all have a lovely time, take some iconic pictures and go to bed happy knowing that we, the most horsey nation on earth, is responsible for the demise of one of the original ancient Olympic disciplines. Nice one, as we say in South London.
There are other things but that will do for the moment. I am very fond of Sue Benson and an admirer of Tim Hadaway and have no doubt they will do their best with what they are presented with. These critisms have nothing to do with them personally. Just to be clear.
 
the sooner they ditch the idea, the better. a world-class permanent fixture could be built, just outside London. much more accessible and useable in perpetuity.
how the hell will it cost more to change the plan now? nothing's built yet, surely?!
and pruning/felling those ancient trees will be a true crime imho.
 
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how the hell will it cost more to change the plan now? nothing's built yet, surely?!

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I don't understand that either. Would it really cost more to divert the money to upgrading an existing horsey area/venue (within easy reach of London) then to start Greenwich from scratch? I can understand wanting to keep everything within London rather than shipping certain sports out but there are potentially suitable venues within easy reach of London that wouldn't involve the disruption/destruction to a historic site.
 
Oh and i forgot to mention one other thing. The Park and the adjacent roads (some of which are slap bang against the fence) will need to be closed for a great deal longer than the three weeks implied by the time line in the magazine. once anything permenant is in there (dont forget the test event) keeping those areas secure with be a huge effort and expense, even with the park closed. Possibly the organisers are unaware of the amount of low income/unemployed inhabitants of Deptford, Lewishams and the like who will be incensed at the disruption to their lives due to these closures for a sort that many of them regard as entirely supported by posh snobs. When all these horses ship in for example, where are they proposing to store the lorries? Cant qite see Zara prepared to leave her shiny new Oakley, which cost more that most of the flats visible from the dark side of the Greenwich, parked on Blackheath for example.
 
The whole thing, IMO, is a complete disaster. We should never have bid for the Olympics.

I read an article in the Obersver newspaper (I think) a couple of weeks ago which said that there is now NO private funding for this build as the Govt/committee responsible for the funding can't secure any. If the article is accurate, all of the industrial partners have withdrawn their funding due to the current economic climate and there is doubt over whether Bovis LendLease, the company building the facilities, will even be able to complete. We, the taxpayers, are going to end up footing the bill for this as well, at a time when we are having to bail out banks and have an ever-increasing amount of people claiming benefits thanks to the number of redundancies.

Sorry, it's turned into a bit of a rant but I firmly believe we should never have bid for it. We cannot afford it. There are other, far more important things (see above list), that taxpayer's money should be spent on for the forseeable future. The Olympics is not one of them.
 
So what would be the best alternative site? Can we get a petition together?! I have a feeling that thousands (if not millions!) of people would agree that Greenwich Park is NOT the place to stage it, for hundreds of reasons. Times have changed, plans should change too... simple. There's no shame in compromise.
 
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So what would be the best alternative site? Can we get a petition together?! I have a feeling that thousands (if not millions!) of people would agree that Greenwich Park is NOT the place to stage it, for hundreds of reasons. Times have changed, plans should change too... simple. There's no shame in compromise.

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The problem is that there can't be anywhere with that much space in close proximity to London surely? I'm sure there are plenty of places outside the London area/London commuter belt but they would all be too far away.
 
Why? no one minded that the horse sports weren't in Beijing. If they were an hour from London (easily achievable) it would be close enough for the riders to all go to opening and closing ceremonies, and easier for non-London spectators to get there. a LOT more spectators will go for xc day than go to Badders and Burghley, yet from what i've heard Greenwich Park will have seriously limited numbers. A fantastic venue within an hour of London, closer to top-class veterinary hospital, a permanent site... sounds a much better prospect to me, and not a waste of money!
 
I must say that I'm split on equestrian Olympics in the park - I both love the idea and am horrified by it. I know Greenwich Park really well, I lived a stone's throw from it as a kid in Blackheath and always dreamed about galloping around it - I must have jumped imaginary ponies off every bank! Now it looks like it's going to happen, I really can't see how it can work. The terrain offers huge opportunities for an exciting xc course but it's just not that big or accessible and it's going to be hugely damaging to the park itself. There are far more sensible places to run it and put the money into the long term good of our sport. If H&H is now 'toeing the line' then I don't know how the general horsey population gets to put its opinion across but to me it all feels a little doomed - just because those In Charge are too scared to challenge what they first put forward.
 
Isn't there some sort of rule about the majority of the venues having to be within a certain distance of the Olympic village, or have I imagined that? That's what prompted my earlier comment. If I've got it wrong and am talking crap (which is very likely!) then I'm all for somewhere like Badminton. Plus it would make sense to put less money into just developing Badminton further by buildling on what they already have, than to start from scratch and spend a fortune on a new venue to be dismantled when the Games is over.
 
As someone who lived in Greater London all my life until a few months ago, and who knows Greenwich quite well, I agree that it was a misguided choice, and I'm curious to know exactly who made the decision. Quite apart from the possible damage to the park and the lack of legacy, 23,000 people trying to get into and out of the park very quickly. It certainly isn't too late to change the venue. According to H & H, the planning application to Greenwich Council doesn't go in till later this year!
 
i think they will have 100,000 spectators or more on xc day if they have room for them... i'm sure Badders/Burghley gets 80,000 or so, and more people will make the effort for the Olympics.
if they only have room for 23,000 then a lot of us are going to be very disappointed/frustrated.
 
I am still amazed they think it is the best option and cannot be changed, can't see how many would want to go, had it been easier to get to I would have gone, but the thought of trekking across London in the middle of the Olympics , no thanks.
 
Speaking as someone who has knocked my head repeatedly on the brick wall that is the local planning office, would it not be very ironic and quite entertaining if their planning application were to be turned down on a technicality? Surely since the 'neighbours' are already objecting furiously, that has to be grounds for a refusal?!
 
What a mess. I agree entirely with you, Lu.

Like Kerelli, I don't understand why they can't change tack?

Or is that more about certain people not losing face..........
 
The reason why it is in central london is that there HAS to be a equestrian venue within very easy reach (short travelling time) for the Pentathalon.

If they move the main equestrian events to outside London a second equestrian venue would still be needed in central london for the pentathalon which is where the extra expense comes in. Or so I believe....

I would wonder whether they should keep the majority of the equestrian events in Greenwich and just have the XC elsewhere just outside London like they did in HK!
 
And anyone who thinks i might have got it wrong about the lack of planning here, answer me this. if so much thought, time and money went into proposing the original bid, how is it theat the plans for the equestrian facility were not blueprinted on the same scale as the Park......Duh? No wonder they fitted in so well and i am just going to load the latest version on so you can all see it and spot the still obvious mistakes two years down the line. (more time money and effort etc).
 
Santa Claus that is another piece of fiction. the modern pentathletes ride over about 1.10 on borrowed horses, any venue with suficent grass in the middle for a course and warm up would suffice, which is EXACTLY what happened in Bejing. However, if you read my comments above you will see that no-one is really objecting to the showjumping and dressage, allthough the closure of the park TWICE and the surrounding roads will be a great diisruption to the surrounding area. it is the cross country that is the problem.
anyway as promised here is the last site plan i recieved. I am sure people will spot a few obvious mistakes and also note how on this one the course goes through the formal garden which it did not on the original submission.
Greenwich_site_plan_Oct_2008.jpg
 
I really don't think the park is big enough - XC day will be a logistical nightmare by the sounds of things
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I don't know enough about possible venues close to London to recommend another but it does strike me that there just isn't enough room at the current selection!
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I'm just going to keep my fingers firmly crossed that somehow it all works out!
 
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