Olympia: were the puissance audience cheated

It is a common thing in puissance classes for riders to withdraw either because the horse has reached its limit or it is being "saved" for another day, so shouldn't really come as a shock to anyone in the audience who follows show jumping.

Similarly in the speed classes there will often be a number who are schooling or not particularly mega competitive as the horse is either relatively inexperience or the rider does not want to rush it so as to blow its mind for another class.

Looking at the number of empty seats by the time the presentation took place and before the Finale, it would seem a lot of people wanted to rush off to catch last trains (I know we have had to do so in the past) so possibly a good job some withdrew!
 
I wouldn't say the audience were cheated but I think puissance is slightly losing its sparkle compared to the old days, when you'd insist that your mum got you out of bed to watch it, and everyone horsey that you knew watched it. The time of heroes!

Let's face it most people associate puissance with Olympia and it should really have star billing. I can't see any problems from a welfare perspective, the wall drops at a touch and horses as ever have the option to stop or run out. I also don't think any rider 'expects' the horse to clear the wall and didn't see anyone punishing their horse when it didn't clear it. I think it's great for people to have a go, with the caveat that they can withdraw if they know the horse isn't up to it. Last night, I think the two withdrawals early on were to save horses for other classes. Laura's withdrawal was because her horse was on the limit.

The solution? Increase the prize money for what used to be a top notch glamourous title. Allow riders to bring a puissance specialist. Puissance is special, it's synonymous with Olympia, it should be a fun challenge which people want to take part in, but is turning into too much of a liability for the riders imho.
 
If you feel so strongly OP, then perhaps you should enter next year?

You know I think that if the world doesn't end today somebody will be on here complainign about it.

Any responsible rider will withdraw a horse they feel has reached its limit. ANyone havign a go at 6' 8" still gets applauded in my book.
 
Bigginge said:
If you feel so strongly OP, then perhaps you should enter next year?

You know I think that if the world doesn't end today somebody will be on here complainign about it.

Any responsible rider will withdraw a horse they feel has reached its limit. ANyone havign a go at 6' 8" still gets applauded in my book.
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LIKE!!!!!
 
Crimbowitch said:
trainers - know far more about what the horse can or cannot do on the day - how do you know the horse had not started to feel "off", how do you know that the Whittakers entered to make up a class?

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because the commentators told us that was the plan having spoken the riders that day.. I actually don't think it sounds good to the audience at the start of the comp to be told so and so is only going to go 2 rounds with this horse.. it means you sort of don't care whether said horse clears it or not.

fwiw I thought they had also changed it a couple of years ago so that they could bring a specialist puissance horse in addition if they wanted, but I don't think there are so many of those about these days.
 
ester said:
because the commentators told us that was the plan having spoken the riders that day.. I actually don't think it sounds good to the audience at the start of the comp to be told so and so is only going to go 2 rounds with this horse.. it means you sort of don't care whether said horse clears it or not.

fwiw I thought they had also changed it a couple of years ago so that they could bring a specialist puissance horse in addition if they wanted, but I don't think there are so many of those about these days.
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yes... that day ... showjumping is a game of tactics as well as clearing the fences... the slow steady clear... the fast round and the risks, etc.... and of course the riders care if the horse clears the fence or not... you certainly dont want to teach a horse that they have a get out i.e a refusal, the amount of time and effort put into teaching horses to pick feet up etc and you honestly think the riders do not care if it clears it or not.....
 
I don't really understand your point as a response to mine? I wouldn't expect them to speak to them 2 weeks before although it may have been the day before I cannot remember the commentary that accurately.

Ah got it, completely crossed wires, I wasn't talking about the riders caring... it was you as in the 'audience'/me, ie when told John was only going to go 2 rounds on his I wasn't really bothered whether he cleared it or knocked a brick as he wasn't going to be a contender.. so removing much of the audience suspense factor
 
In one of the slow mo replays (I forget which horse it was) it showed the horse landing, and I swear it's legs all buckled! I thought it had broken it's leg - so no the audience weren't cheated - it's a bad rider that would push his horse too far.

Imagine the uproar if a horse did break it's leg or neck in a fall from that? You'd all be calling for the puissance to be banned.
 
Did the viewers get to see some of the top riders jump 1.80m? Yes.

Did the viewers get to see Ben Maher attempt to jump over 7ft of 'wall'? Yes.

We're they cheated? No.

Every year people say they are only doing a certain number of rounds and they do. Sheesh, I'd rather see people retire than lush the horse too much.
 
RiderLizzie said:
Did the viewers get to see some of the top riders jump 1.80m? Yes.

Did the viewers get to see Ben Maher attempt to jump over 7ft of 'wall'? Yes.

We're they cheated? No.

Every year people say they are only doing a certain number of rounds and they do. Sheesh, I'd rather see people retire than lush the horse too much.
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I agree. This is how they make a living so I think it's understandable if riders want to save their horses because they know them best, or even if they do use the class as a schooling round for classes with bigger prize money that's their job and that's how they pay their bills.

If it bothers people that much to point where they feel cheated then there are plenty of shows around where they can see the top riders compete at high level without having to pay a penny.
 
I was there and didn't enjoy it as much as I used too. I actually enjoyed the mistletoe stakes more as that was more of a competition.

Ben, Laura and the Itailian guy were the ones who gave us a good show though. I understand why the others pulled out, they have to compete them today. I do agree that they should be allowed to bring a puissance Horse with them on top of the other 3 Horses.

Laura did the right thing pulling out when she did.
 
I was there last night and I had a great time. Both John and Michael Whitaker's horses looked great and watching their riding is a masterclass - I don't mind watching them jump a 'schooling round' one bit!

We were glad Laura pulled out when she did, her horse had gone beautifully for her and looked tiny next to that wall. She'd also just come second in the class before. I don't think she 'owed' the crowd any more.

I was gutted Richi Rich took a brick out, I'd have loved to see Ben and Guy going head to head at the end.

I was terrified watching the Italian horse, what a 'unique' style :eek: - still it clearly works for them at a much higher level than I will ever reach.

Overall I was more than happy with the overall experience, it was a lovely way to start Christmas. If the show want to bring back Puissance specialists then that would be very exciting, but I've no complaints.

Well done everyone :D
 
to answer someone's question from earlier, the Italian guy (luca maria moneta) is really tall :D
have to say, I was impressed by his attitude - he looked like he was having a blast
 
blood_magik said:
to answer someone's question from earlier, the Italian guy (luca maria moneta) is really tall :D
have to say, I was impressed by his attitude - he looked like he was having a blast
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He made my evening. Nice to see someone at that level smiling all the way round. It clearly works for him and his horse. Made me worry a lot less about carrying my hands high when jumping :D
 
What a daft question! No the audience was not cheated. I have the utmost respect for riders that make a conscious decision to save their horse and get a lower placing and therefore less money, moreso than those who get carried away and potentially knock their horse's confidence.

I agree that Laura called it a night at the right time. She jumped brilliantly but knows her horse and knew that was the limit. I also have no problem with John & Michael schooling their horses round. I've had a horse that goes better in her second class than her first, so have entered a class before the one I really care about. I appreciate that's not in the same league, but same principle really.

The Italian guy terrified me (and I hated his stirrups lol) but fair play to him! You could put me on the best puissance horse in the world and I would not be going near that wall in the first round, let alone 3rd or 4th!
 
I watched both of the Italian guys rounds on wed nigh through my fingers, could those reins have been any shorter?!! I guess if he'd had a martingale on it wouldn't have made the blindest bit of difference, but blimey, he gave us some scary moments!
 
The TV commentator said that riders often use it for schooling. In racing there are enquiries if horses are obviously schooled around a course; I suppose people don't bet on showjumping.
I didn't get the impression the Whittaker's horses had reached their limit; it did seem a little unsporting & I expect spectators were disappointed.

Even though showjumping had a good summer at the Olympics, this type of behaviour by the top riders will hardly help it's popularity re-grow.
 
The riders can take 3 horses to Olympia plus a Puissance specialist - Ben Maher's horse was exactly that - I doubt that you will see that horse in any other class.

The riders do not always have a puissance specialist so some year's there will be more competitive entries than others.

Had Richi Rich not hit an early fence he too might well have made the later rounds.

Robert Whitaker's horse is a Puissance specialist (new to Robert) Had he not had a silly run out at the first fence he too might have made the later rounds.

It is all the luck of the day and the form of the horse. ie a competition!!
 
Nightmare before Christmas said:
I dont see whats wrong with it. These horses will come in next time experienced and ready to jump a bigger wall. Why crash and burn and spoil a horse when you can be tactful and give the horse confidence for future wins?
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I love Puissance - and I hate it too! A 'sensitive' horse will be destroyed by too much Puissance. They make an enormous effort, clear a huge wall and what happens?? They have to go back and jump an even bigger wall!

In the '70s, in Oz, a sponsor put up a $1,000 'reward' (a LOT of money back then!) for anyone who could beat the then record - but you had to win the Puissance class at big, nominated shows to 'qualify'! My then trainer, Art Uytendaal, had a fantastic horse called Disneyland and he won one of these classes over a 7'2" wall - Art refused to try for the record - the horse had won, he KNEW he'd won - and that was it where Art was concerned! The owner threw a strop and took the horse off him and the horse had 3 cracks at the record (all of them unsuccessful) with another top rider before he had a nervous breakdown and refused to jump 3'6"! Poor bu**er took some hidings for the stopping too!

Thankfully Art was able to buy him back (for peanuts), got him jumping again and gave him to his daughter for Juniors! But he never jumped Seniors again!
 
I agree that as a spectator, it was a bit frustrating having some horses only jump the first couple of rounds (though I believe the rider should withdraw them when they've reached their limits).

It didn't seem a large class though. I don't think anyone was prevented from running because of the schooling rounds? Would have been even shorter without them.
 
Phrase that springs to mind is can't do right for doing wrong. OK so you paid for tickets to watch, and yes travel costs and possibly accommodation etc... but what about the money the riders and their owners invest in getting a horse to Olympia? If the horse isn't up to jumping above a set height I would rather see the rider use it as a schooling round then withdraw graceful than set the horse up for a huge confidence knock. OK the wall is safer these days but horses will be horses and when their bottle goes problems will soon come flying in. If you don't like the fact that welfare comes above spectacle then it's simple - don't go. Go watch car racing, or motorbike racing, or any other sport where the only person getting hurt on the heels of a bad decision is the person that made it
 
Riders can bring three horses plus a puissance horse IF they have one! At the end of the day people bought those tickets BEFORE they even knew if there would be any competitors. It has happened before at larger shows that the show has had a job to persuade anyone to jump the puissance class. Money goes well down the line and with there being splits and divides of joint prize money it can be a handy diesel money class. At the end of the day the riders job is jump the horse not entertain the crowd and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming!
 
Christmas Spirit said:
I think it's one thing to withdraw when you know your horse has reached it's limit, it does the horse no good to set it up to fail, but it's another thing entirely to withdraw because you want to save the horse for more lucrative classes.
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I agree with this. Its so irritating that people enter just to have a warm up for say the Grand Prix. They should be in it to win it surely like most other classes? Maybe they should up the entry fee and prize money so they'd take it more seriously? I have no idea what they charge to enter the puissance...?

It is dull when they draw as well. They never used to in the olden days! Horses are worth too much money nowadays!
 
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