Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Mudchute is, of course, much more than an equestrian centre. From their web site
Hahahaha - the IOC doesn't work like that.
Olympic test event- reactions to the XC
- Thread starter SusannaF
- Start date
Mudchute is, of course, much more than an equestrian centre. From their web site
Hahahaha - the IOC doesn't work like that.
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. First time I have seen Hartpury mentioned in this context. Note to LOCOG: I see that it even has Modern Pentathlon arrangements.
http://www.hartpury.ac.uk/Hartpury-Facilities/
Yes, I gather she has an imperious - arrogant, domineering - style which she is allowed to get away with. Like ordering modifications to one of Mike Etherington-Smith's jump at the 2008 Olympics, the night before the start of the competition.
badattitude
Well-Known Member
There is much wrong information in this thread, Rachel is well informed on the technicalities but not on certain other aspects. The sun was shining on Tuesday and i am sure that everybody who was there had a lovely time. One wonders how positive the impression would have been in torrential rain.
Hoof and The London Horse Network are doing nothing tangible for London's current equestrian population, it is all smoke and mirrors so far.
Ebony Horse Club was given the FEI development award so it could be used as evidence of an 'equestrian legacy'. But is is not unique in many ways because the riding schools and livery yards in London have all helped underpriviledged children in the past, in greater numbers than Ebony currently can. The South London Branch of the Pony Club held its shows in parks such as Dulwich and Brockwell and virtually all the children were mounted on borrowed ponies provided at no charge by the owners. Many of the children worked at the stables to pay for their lessons. I know as I was one. Dane Rawlings was another.
Many of the local businesses will not benefit as much as they think, the audience will indeed be funnelled in and out of the venue. Some, like the pub outside the gate are likely to be closed entirely.
The park is the size that it is. There is no 'extra space' the course did not turn about as much because only five minutes were required but most of the other loops were along side what was seen last week.
Most damming of all. Even though the event is a sell out according to LOGOG's own press release and even though two ballots for tickets have passed, the organisers still have not confirmed the numbers attending. They are still working on 'models'. The only reason for this reticence must be that they already know spectator numbers for the cross country will be much more limited than they are stating.
The venue is decided now. We will have to wait and see.
Hoof and The London Horse Network are doing nothing tangible for London's current equestrian population, it is all smoke and mirrors so far.
Ebony Horse Club was given the FEI development award so it could be used as evidence of an 'equestrian legacy'. But is is not unique in many ways because the riding schools and livery yards in London have all helped underpriviledged children in the past, in greater numbers than Ebony currently can. The South London Branch of the Pony Club held its shows in parks such as Dulwich and Brockwell and virtually all the children were mounted on borrowed ponies provided at no charge by the owners. Many of the children worked at the stables to pay for their lessons. I know as I was one. Dane Rawlings was another.
Many of the local businesses will not benefit as much as they think, the audience will indeed be funnelled in and out of the venue. Some, like the pub outside the gate are likely to be closed entirely.
The park is the size that it is. There is no 'extra space' the course did not turn about as much because only five minutes were required but most of the other loops were along side what was seen last week.
Most damming of all. Even though the event is a sell out according to LOGOG's own press release and even though two ballots for tickets have passed, the organisers still have not confirmed the numbers attending. They are still working on 'models'. The only reason for this reticence must be that they already know spectator numbers for the cross country will be much more limited than they are stating.
The venue is decided now. We will have to wait and see.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
Rachael love, there is no argument to be had. The Olympic Equestrian events will go ahead at Greenwich. End of. I expect we can all have loads of fun after ther the event debating how things could have been better had they been held elsewhere, but for now such discussions are mere speculation.
Why don't you reinvest your considerable energies & skills in another cause - one that isn't now totally pointless.
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windsorblue
Active Member
THE AD HOMINEM FALLACY FALLACY
One of the most widely misused terms on the Net is "ad hominem". It is most often introduced into a discussion by certain delicate types, delicate of personality and mind, whenever their opponents resort to a bit of sarcasm. As soon as the suspicion of an insult appears, they summon the angels of ad hominem to smite down their foes, before ascending to argument heaven in a blaze of sanctimonious glory. They may not have much up top, but by God, they don't need it when they've got ad hominem on their side. It's the secret weapon that delivers them from any argument unscathed.
Taken from....
http://plover.net/~bonds/adhominem.html
One of the most widely misused terms on the Net is "ad hominem". It is most often introduced into a discussion by certain delicate types, delicate of personality and mind, whenever their opponents resort to a bit of sarcasm. As soon as the suspicion of an insult appears, they summon the angels of ad hominem to smite down their foes, before ascending to argument heaven in a blaze of sanctimonious glory. They may not have much up top, but by God, they don't need it when they've got ad hominem on their side. It's the secret weapon that delivers them from any argument unscathed.
Taken from....
http://plover.net/~bonds/adhominem.html
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Hartpury was mentioned in many online and verbal debates before Princess "Have My Own Way" finally nailed Greenwich as the venue. I would have thought it made perfect sense having so much of the basic infrastructure in place, easy access, would be of benefit to the UK long after 2012. I find it disgusting the BEF / BD / BSJA, and BHS remained submissive on this and did not actively push for somewhere that was not going to be basically the equivalent of pouring money down a drain. Or maybe PH just did not want to venture any further into the British peasant countryside than she had to, or will have to present medals.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Love it - but please cease and desist from taking the name of the spud in vain. We spudlets are a delicate bunch, and we don't like ad tubernim attacks
mtj
Well-Known Member
Hartpury's own website states that it has potential access problems from the main access road - road is known to flood.
Choosing this venue or Windsor had the potential to provide a Cypress Mountain (Vancouver olympics) type fiasco.
Choosing this venue or Windsor had the potential to provide a Cypress Mountain (Vancouver olympics) type fiasco.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Please believe me, as one who has lived in Greenwich since 1979, Hartpury's access problems are tiny compared with those of anywhere in south-east London. LOCOG wants everyone (except the so-called Olympic family) to use public transport. However, it is a myth to say that Greenwich has good transport connections: on the railways we have rolling stock that stops working if a hot day is followed by a rainy day, and a stalled train can close the whole line from London Bridge to Charlton (Greenwich is inbetween those two stations); on the roads, just one lorry shedding its load can gridlock the whole of London for the next 8 hours, and we have roads "known to flood" too in heavy rain (due to blocked drains) or as a result of a burst water-main. A bomb alert can close the Blackwall Tunnel (which is on the Zil lane, the route for the "Olympic family", between the Olympic Village and Greenwich Park) for half a day, even if it turns out to have been a hoax.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Yes, do quote from a vanity web site, instead of coming up with your own contribution. The abusive ad hominem is often used by those who cannot defend their argument or answer a pertinent question. Please play the ball, not the man.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
On the subject of flooding. A day or two after LOCOG started installing the temporary arena in Greenwich Park, the drought broke. We have photographs of the resultant flooding in Greenwich Park, including one of a maelstrom torrent of water bursting out of a manhole. Entirely normal for these parts and usually no problem because we don't usually have 200 horses running round trying to keep their footing on the steep slopes.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Is that what you were doing, when you dismissed eventing as an 'elite' sport?
Or is that an ad equinim attack?
As for vanity - how self-centred and delusional do you have to be to keep fighting this long-lost battle?!
Spot_the_Risk
Well-Known Member
Well, I always thought (and said at the time) that I thought Greenwich was the wrong venue, and having read all the comments on this thread, I'm glad that we didn't get any of the tickets we applied for, and can watch on the TV instead from the comfort of Devon!
watertray53
Well-Known Member
Well said Spot_the_Risk I quite agree with you! I was there last Tuesday and the journey from Paddington to Greenwich was hideous! We were travelling after the rush hour and the underground was packed. Heaven only knows what it will be like next year when there will be thousands of extra people using it. I for one am also glad to be staying at home!
Wishful
Well-Known Member
Paddington to most places is hideous... I'd probably change at Reading and come in somewhere else (Waterloo/London Bridge) and pick up Jubilee from there. Or from where I'm starting, direct train to Waterloo (cheaper than Paddington and about 30-45 mins slower). Paddington to Liverpool Street or Kings Cross is almost as much of a pain although the routes are marginally more direct.
That said, the Burghley and Badminton traffic is pretty horrific, Windsor is massively constricted by river crossings etc, there would be unlikely to be any camping available on an Olympic site and there is NO sensible public transport to any of them. Greenwich has the river (which is quite a pleasant journey), Jubilee and Docklands as well as the overlands (which I agree are fairly rubbish, but better than most of the ones in the rest of the country).
That said, the Burghley and Badminton traffic is pretty horrific, Windsor is massively constricted by river crossings etc, there would be unlikely to be any camping available on an Olympic site and there is NO sensible public transport to any of them. Greenwich has the river (which is quite a pleasant journey), Jubilee and Docklands as well as the overlands (which I agree are fairly rubbish, but better than most of the ones in the rest of the country).
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
I was at the test event on Tuesday. I parked in Orpington & got the train to Lewisham (20mins) In Lewisham I changed on to the LDR, & 10 mins later arrived in Greenwich. It isn't an easy train journey from anywhere like Reading or Slough, but then nor are lots of other places !
watertray53
Well-Known Member
Wishful I agree about using the river , which we did on the way back.
A lovely way to travel until you have to use the tube at Westminster
packed with tourists and business people returning home. Sardines in a tin!
A lovely way to travel until you have to use the tube at Westminster
packed with tourists and business people returning home. Sardines in a tin!
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
There always seems to be something wrong - delays - on the Jubilee line nowadays. If you follow www.twitter.com/BBCTravelAlert, you'll see what I mean.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
I agree that the river is a lovely way to travel but, because the Thames is tidal here, you are at the mercy of the tides which can lengthen journey times if you happen to be going upstream when the tide is going out or downstream against the flood tide.
SusannaF
Well-Known Member
Well I'm sure they won't have bothered to sort out the Jubilee line by 2012 
teapot
Well-Known Member
That availability being dependent on where students are living. And given how much students pay for the privilege of it, they'd be uproar if they were decanted out of it. It's bad enough being a postgrad there during the summer, let alone being kicked out of your room.
The accreditation at the highest level is for the double bedded new halls. Which have postgrads living in them during the summer. No they're not full but it would be a little awkward having an 8 room flat with 4 PhD students and 4 Olympic competitors in. The 'shockingly bad' stuff which is no where near a decent standard of living is a.) not accredited and b.) funnily enough the stuff that's available during the summer. Postgrads arn't even offered the option of living in it. First year undergrads who have to share a bathroom between 20, be catered and move all their stuff out at the end of every term do get the option. I'm talking 19th century building which hasn't been modernised.
Banqueting facilities my arse. It's a small ish dining room with wood paneled walls. The conference facilities are good though, but they're funnily enough not in use over the summer. The gym's no different to what you'd find in a semi decent hotel.
Just trust me on this one - never believe what RHUL publish, or at least take it with a pinch of salt. They rely solely on the reputation of being part of the (dying) London collegiate. But they get away with it as the campus is nice, and the accommodation in parts is pretty decent IF you can get access to it. They're not going to mention that the A30 is shocking to drive down, Windsor's not easy to get to by public transport and the campus will still have students living on site.
Greenwich has the open space, hills already built in and general ambiance of a 3 day event venue (and yes I have been there very recently). Hickstead doesn't. It's flat, the stands, loos and facilities need completely re-building, you wouldn't fit an Olympic arena in the international arena space wise, and the stands space by the dressage arenas is pretty limited. Plus as it's a privately owned venue, it would mean convincing the Bunns to knock down the already decreasing standards of stands, loos and re-building from scratch.
Greenwich with regards to reports post test event for the media.
What's that got to do with the price of fish?!
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Then you haven't seen LOCOG's plans for the "open space". Why do you think that spectator numbers are restricted to less than 50,000? Because Greenwich Park is too small.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Well I'm sure they won't have bothered to sort out the Jubilee line by 2012
The problems appear to be systemic. Despite an upgrade costing hundreds of millions of pounds, the
And so on and so on. I am not the only one who thinks it won't be straightened out in time to work properly during the Olympics.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/20/jubilee-line-disruption-olympics-tube
20 April 2011
Pebble101
Well-Known Member
I am really not sure why you are posting on this site to be honest, I think your arguments are directed at the wrong people - we are not the decision makers. And some of your posts seem to contradict each other.
The decision is made,it's too late to change and we are stuck with it although I know a lot of us think it is not the best decision ever made to hold it at Greenwich. However we might as well make it a success.
Maybe it will ignite a passion in some of the 'inner city kids' like it did with me many years ago. I don't know if I would be classed as one of them - lived in Catford and went to school in New Cross for those who know the area! Now passionate about Eventing.
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SusannaF
Well-Known Member
Amen.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
In more than one Olympics, in the past, the venue for the equestrian events has been changed quite late in the day. It is silly - a waste of money and opportunity - to persist with Greenwich Park and could be disastrous from the point of view of the UK national equestrian community.
Zebedee
Well-Known Member
But that's not going to happen with regard to Greenwich /2012.
As Pebble101 has already said the decision has been made, & the best course of action now is for everyone to pull together & make it a sucess. I'm sure you're a far bigger person than to hope for failure just so you can say 'I told you so' ?
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
The short-sightedness of the UK equestrian community is extraordinary. If your promising young equestrians don't win any medals at the Olympics 2016 and 2010 - because your competitors, in Germany, France and the US have benefited from fantastic training facilities upgraded at the same time as the UK was saying "no thanks" to a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to upgrade as well at the expense of the tax payer - don't say I didn't warn you.
Why "arrange to fail" - and insist on everyone else "pulling together" to ensure failure - when you could arrange to win?
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Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Topical comment on this:
James Pearce
BBC Sports News Correspondent
www.twitter.com/Pearcesport
Tuesday 12 July 2011, about 11.00am
https://twitter.com/Pearcesport/status/90713144783142912