Olympic test event- reactions to the XC
- Thread starter SusannaF
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millimoo
Well-Known Member
Lovely post MadisonBelle...
This is the spirit of the Games for this country, and totally how i feel about it being a moment in our lives to talk about for years and years to come - it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Whilst I'm sad for those who failed in the ballot, it was open to the nation, and I was fortunate to get tickets for the Dressage Kur Finals.
I cannot wait, and will treasure the memories with my family for the rest of my life once all is said and done.
This is the spirit of the Games for this country, and totally how i feel about it being a moment in our lives to talk about for years and years to come - it is a once in a lifetime opportunity.
Whilst I'm sad for those who failed in the ballot, it was open to the nation, and I was fortunate to get tickets for the Dressage Kur Finals.
I cannot wait, and will treasure the memories with my family for the rest of my life once all is said and done.
BBH
Well-Known Member
[
I'm only sad I didn't get tickets for everything as I will be cheering on every sport and will be taking quite a few days off of work to watch it.
)[/QUOTE]
Ditto
Only I wonder how much equestrianism will actually be on telly given the sheer volume of sports needing coverage and ours being a minority sport.
I'm only sad I didn't get tickets for everything as I will be cheering on every sport and will be taking quite a few days off of work to watch it.
)[/QUOTE]Ditto
Only I wonder how much equestrianism will actually be on telly given the sheer volume of sports needing coverage and ours being a minority sport.
Spudlet
Well-Known Member
Hopefully the red button will be fully used - I think the digital switchover will be all done by 2012, so fingers crossed everyone will be able to get this service. It would be a shame for any sport to be missed by TV coverage when this option is there - whether that's eventing or greco-roman wrestling (although I know which one I'd rather watch
).
).BBH
Well-Known Member
Hopefully the red button will be fully used - I think the digital switchover will be all done by 2012, so fingers crossed everyone will be able to get this service. It would be a shame for any sport to be missed by TV coverage when this option is there - whether that's eventing or greco-roman wrestling (although I know which one I'd rather watch
I hope so too but as with Olympia sometimes red button isn't available on freeview. Last year a couple of nights were available on freeview but not all of it. I couldn't understand if they were there anyway why not make it available for everyone to see.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Given the Olympic schedule for next year, the Eventing at least will get decent tv coverage purely because there's not actually that much else going on during those 4 days (and by that I mean, it's mainly preliminary heats for a number of sports) 
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Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Two points of information
In the normal way, Greenwich Park is never watered or fertilised. Never. The cross-country track has been watered, fertilised and had a surfactant applied to it every month for almost a year. That's why the difference is huge. After the Olympics, the cross-country track will no longer be watered or fertilised. The grasses sown on the track will perish. The difference will then be even more marked than it is now, between the parkland and the cross-country track. The track will be a long ribbon scar. It will have to be reseeded with the seeds of the same grasses that grow in the rest of the parkland and cordoned off to recover. If there is no money to do this, though, that won't happen. The track will just remain, a long 10ft wide scar winding all over the Park.
See above. Also the damage to environment is already worse than even the most pessimistic of us envisaged. At the Greenwich Council planning board in March 2010, the CEO of The Royal Parks told the public that the cross-country course would just be scarified. Will Connell, of the BEF, contradicted him, saying that the course would be prepared in the usual way. What has happened is something in between, and it is still awful.
In the normal way, Greenwich Park is never watered or fertilised. Never. The cross-country track has been watered, fertilised and had a surfactant applied to it every month for almost a year. That's why the difference is huge. After the Olympics, the cross-country track will no longer be watered or fertilised. The grasses sown on the track will perish. The difference will then be even more marked than it is now, between the parkland and the cross-country track. The track will be a long ribbon scar. It will have to be reseeded with the seeds of the same grasses that grow in the rest of the parkland and cordoned off to recover. If there is no money to do this, though, that won't happen. The track will just remain, a long 10ft wide scar winding all over the Park.
See above. Also the damage to environment is already worse than even the most pessimistic of us envisaged. At the Greenwich Council planning board in March 2010, the CEO of The Royal Parks told the public that the cross-country course would just be scarified. Will Connell, of the BEF, contradicted him, saying that the course would be prepared in the usual way. What has happened is something in between, and it is still awful.
toffeesmarty
Well-Known Member
Slightly off topic but Greenwich is not the only area in the place in the UK to be holding an event where the environment has been adapted to suit the Games. I am not saying this is right but it is so tiresome reading the positive comments by people who are genuinely excited at this once in a lifetime event being attacked by another negative. Lets hope we medal so that equestrianism gets the media attention it deserves and hopefully will continue within the Olympics for future generations.
Before there is another 'yes but' comment about the cost, the environmental damage, the loss of 'your park', the needs of your community, the cost, the transport links and the inconvenience, (have I missed anything?), for millions of young people across the world the Olympics will be the inspirational moment that can be life changing.
When I was a child I didn't go to boarding school, nor could my parents afford a pony but I knew this was all I ever wanted. I read horsey books, watched every minute of tv coverage of HOYS/Hickstead, etc and remember cheering when Richard Mead and the others medalled in the Olympics. My dream was that one day I would be able to ride and perhaps own my own horse. It wasnt until I was in my late 20s that I achieved my dream.
Where you grow up does not have to be a barrier to your future life dreams.
We have the sailing in Dorset. The road network to Weymouth is appalling. There is not one mile of motorway in Dorset - plus we don't have the public transport system that there is in London. We know that during the Games the road network will come to more of grinding halt than it does every weekend when people travel down here with their cars and caravans. A new road leading into Weymouth has carved through the cliff and downland. Lizards, butterflies and rare plants were resited. Not the best solution but the tourism coming into Dorset should benefit the economy and hopefully if there experience here is memorable they will return. Only time will tell to what extent- but personally I can't wait for this time next year.
I would have done anything to get equestrian tickets, but it will be the tv for us.
Before there is another 'yes but' comment about the cost, the environmental damage, the loss of 'your park', the needs of your community, the cost, the transport links and the inconvenience, (have I missed anything?), for millions of young people across the world the Olympics will be the inspirational moment that can be life changing.
When I was a child I didn't go to boarding school, nor could my parents afford a pony but I knew this was all I ever wanted. I read horsey books, watched every minute of tv coverage of HOYS/Hickstead, etc and remember cheering when Richard Mead and the others medalled in the Olympics. My dream was that one day I would be able to ride and perhaps own my own horse. It wasnt until I was in my late 20s that I achieved my dream.
Where you grow up does not have to be a barrier to your future life dreams.
We have the sailing in Dorset. The road network to Weymouth is appalling. There is not one mile of motorway in Dorset - plus we don't have the public transport system that there is in London. We know that during the Games the road network will come to more of grinding halt than it does every weekend when people travel down here with their cars and caravans. A new road leading into Weymouth has carved through the cliff and downland. Lizards, butterflies and rare plants were resited. Not the best solution but the tourism coming into Dorset should benefit the economy and hopefully if there experience here is memorable they will return. Only time will tell to what extent- but personally I can't wait for this time next year.
I would have done anything to get equestrian tickets, but it will be the tv for us.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
In the context of £12bn that is the total cost of the games then yes, £60mn IS trivial.....0.5% to be precise.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice to have a shiny new equestrian venue somewhere....but that would bring its own problems....arguments about where it should be, who should run ot etc. Let's also not forget that new/updated facilities need to be economically viable otherwise they will just fail. Great Leighs is one example..and Towerlands another which seems to struggle to make money despite having millions poured in.
cefyl
Well-Known Member
£60m is not trivial to the UK equine industry.
Towerlands and Great Leighs are private enterprises and run as such and therefore it is no surprise given the way they are run why they struggle.
Colleges such as Hartpury already have excellent infrastructure in place and would benefit the future generations. Stoneleigh Park also has excellent facilities and infrastructure, easy transport access. The BEF / BHS / BSJA / BD / BE et al are short sighted in not seeing an opportunity once and for all to get the national training facility they have been griping about needing for decades.
Before someone screams transport if you had been to Atlanta, Barcelona, Athens, Sydney, the equine venues were a fair distance from the host city and this was overcome easily. Look at Hong Kong, that did not exactly deter equine spectators.
How about all of you complaining, and dissapointed at missing out via the insane allocation system of tickets for 2012. A venue away from Greenwich would mean far greater capacity for spectators.
Sadly the typical British attitude of the moaners who run equine sport in the UK with a shut up and put up approach has been evident. So they let people with no interest, or direct connection to the UK equine industry dictate OUR Olympics without a whisper of complaint, or the courage to stand up and speak out.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
Yes, but £60mn is the cost of putting on the event NOT the amount of money being invested in temporary infrastructure. How much do you think Badminton costs to host every year....and that is only a third of what is required at the olympics and lasts just 3.5 days.
You are also correct in that Towerlands and Great Leighs are privately owned....but that is an even bigger concern because if the private sector can't make these venues wprk financially how the hell are the federations going to !? Someone will have to pay ultimately....and yhat will come down to the likes of you and i in our BE, BS and BD subs...which we all already moan about.
People have to realise, equestrianism isn't a profit centre....it's a cost. A fairly small number of very wealthy people subsidise the sport for the masses....be it in subsidising prizemoney/sponsorship at shows, spending wildly intralistic prices on horses or just by giving up time for free.
You are also correct in that Towerlands and Great Leighs are privately owned....but that is an even bigger concern because if the private sector can't make these venues wprk financially how the hell are the federations going to !? Someone will have to pay ultimately....and yhat will come down to the likes of you and i in our BE, BS and BD subs...which we all already moan about.
People have to realise, equestrianism isn't a profit centre....it's a cost. A fairly small number of very wealthy people subsidise the sport for the masses....be it in subsidising prizemoney/sponsorship at shows, spending wildly intralistic prices on horses or just by giving up time for free.
bseage
Member
I've scanned through the postings since my previous one on 15 July and feel just disappointed that no one has responded to my major concern which is who is representing the athletes here?
Is it really fair to ask a horse, the athlete, to do 40 jumps at 4 star level, over 5.7 kilometers which will require three ascents and descents of Greenwich hill? And why are BE and H&H not picking up on the reservations expressed by some of the riders after the test event. On a wet day this 'BMX track' to quote Fox-Pitt could be lethal.
So, important though they are, issues such as legacy, damage to the park and disruption of the lives of the residents of Greenwich are insignificant compared to the safety of the horses. But this is then given no priority compared to the needs of the riders to be in the team and have a chance of a medal, Coe's desire for a spectacular in London and the sponsors of the games and the riders to see themselves at a spectacular, but totally unsuitable venue.
There is still time to move it to a proven and safe (for the horses) venue.
Is it really fair to ask a horse, the athlete, to do 40 jumps at 4 star level, over 5.7 kilometers which will require three ascents and descents of Greenwich hill? And why are BE and H&H not picking up on the reservations expressed by some of the riders after the test event. On a wet day this 'BMX track' to quote Fox-Pitt could be lethal.
So, important though they are, issues such as legacy, damage to the park and disruption of the lives of the residents of Greenwich are insignificant compared to the safety of the horses. But this is then given no priority compared to the needs of the riders to be in the team and have a chance of a medal, Coe's desire for a spectacular in London and the sponsors of the games and the riders to see themselves at a spectacular, but totally unsuitable venue.
There is still time to move it to a proven and safe (for the horses) venue.
cefyl
Well-Known Member
As a sponsor, and past organiser of successful equine events I am very well aware thank you of production costs, profits, and loss. As a current owner, and past competitive rider (international be it 25 yrs ago) I am well aware that the equine industry is generally not a profit centre. However as I do have an international view point I am saddened at the opportunities the UK has failed to grab to keep up with the rest of the world over the past 3 decades.
No sport is cheap. All sport is supported by people who give up time for free at some point. But sponsorship in the UK for equine sport is not at the level it could be and there is a very good reason why. Compared to other UK sports it is pitiful and this is something the BEF should be looking at. To whine about the price of horses is another typical British excuse. There are plenty of horses and rider combinations who do make it to top international level without extortionate prices paid, but they do have the full backing of their country federations. Again the various equine governing bodies here seem too preoccupied with infighting and ego shoving to be of benefit. Subs - another typical moan, what would you rather, a cheap sub for a cheap service, or pay a bit more and reap the rewards? As you like to throw around % the cost of a yearly sub is a tiny % of the whole picture. If you cannot afford the subs then why buy a horse of the quality to compete at that level anyway? And that is not elitist just fact. It's like saying I can buy a the animal but not afford the insurance or possible vets bills.
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Rambo
Well-Known Member
Correct me if i'm wrong but Olympic eventing is 'only' 3* level isn't....to make it easier for the emerging nations to participate ?
bseage
Member
I'm fairly certain that the test event was 2 star and that the olympic event is 3 star plus that is with some jumps at 4 star level. Thank you for noting that, but yet again, there has been no response to the point that where is the 'voice' of the athletes in the decision to use Greenwich which is a totally unsuitable venue.
badattitude
Well-Known Member
Bseage, I think some people have noticed the points you mention. Perhaps you might care to read this.
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2011/07/observations-and-comments-on-london-2012/
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2011/07/observations-and-comments-on-london-2012/
mtj
Well-Known Member
Badattitiude, that certainly made interesting reading.
Especially the author, who i believe is the former HHO, Lucretia, who was very opposed to the use of Greenwich.
Especially the author, who i believe is the former HHO, Lucretia, who was very opposed to the use of Greenwich.
watertray53
Well-Known Member
Thank you badattitude for posting that link.
Very interesting reading indeed!
Very interesting reading indeed!
cefyl
Well-Known Member
Brilliant article, I hope this can get published in a UK major newspaper such as The Times. This is exactly the kind of thing, and the way it needs to be said, to be put into the public eye now. Lucretia is sorely missed as a HHO contributor.
One point that this article brings home is that the future generations of UK equine sport will be very sparse on the ground of spectators in 2012 due to the lack of capacity, and the ill thought out ticket allocation. What a shame there will not be a chance at all of the many equine colleges and training establishments in the UK being "allocated" tickets, these are the future of our sport and the Olympics in our own country should have been the opportunity to inspire and drive forward ambitions. Instead they will be left with a red button experience that frankly will be not any different to that of any previous Olympics.
bseage
Member
Badattitude...thank you. But did you notice that there is nothing even in this well written critique of the test event and Greenwich as a venue that touches upon the thing that concerns me most....is the venue fair to the horses?
The horses are fit, but there can be no real preparation for a twisting track over 40 fences, up and down Greenwich hill 3 times and possibly in the wet. LongLeat was cancelled a few weeks back because of the wet and it is a far rounder and less steep course than that proposed at Greenwich.
But as you indicated many of the points I have made are being discussed, so time for me to sign off. All the best.
The horses are fit, but there can be no real preparation for a twisting track over 40 fences, up and down Greenwich hill 3 times and possibly in the wet. LongLeat was cancelled a few weeks back because of the wet and it is a far rounder and less steep course than that proposed at Greenwich.
But as you indicated many of the points I have made are being discussed, so time for me to sign off. All the best.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Whether you are an equestrian or a taxpayer or a resident, this well-informed and measured report on the Test Event could make you cry.
Observations and comments on London 2012
July 20th, 2011 by Lulu Kyriacou
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2011/07/observations-and-comments-on-london-2012/
Edited to add: posted before I saw that "badattitude" had posted a link to it.
Observations and comments on London 2012
July 20th, 2011 by Lulu Kyriacou
http://www.horsetalk.co.nz/index.php/blogs/2011/07/observations-and-comments-on-london-2012/
Edited to add: posted before I saw that "badattitude" had posted a link to it.
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Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Incidentally, is everyone aware that, in Greenwich Park, the difference in height between the lowest and highest parts of the Park is 50 metres.
http://www.sciencesupplements.co.uk/blog.asp?Display=151
bseage
Member
But the 50 metre change in height takes place between the back of the Queens House ( National Maritime Museum) and the top of the ridge by the Observatory. So a height change of 50 metres over around 250 metres making a 20% gradient. It is dangerous for a horse to gallop across the face of a hill, so they would have to gallop up and down it and three times. Is it fair to the horses?
teapot
Well-Known Member
In terms of gradient, what's the height difference in the course at Gatcombe/Bramham/Chatsworth? Lu's article is as interesting and well written as always.
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Orwell
Active Member
Please forgive my ignorance, but can anyone explain the BEF's position to me?
Are they in favour of holding the Olympic equestrian events in Greenwich Park?
If so, then why? There would be no legacy. Are they not supposed to promote the interests of riders? Do they not care about the future of their sport? Do they not care that spectator numbers would be limited, to that approximately 200,000 would-be spectators will have to settle for watching the events on TV?
If not, then why are they not exerting pressure to have the events moved? Do they not care about the future of their sport? ...
cefyl
Well-Known Member
BEF's postion - Head in sand.
Obviously they do not care enough, nor to support, the thousands of dedicated UK spectators who support the various equine events year in year out in Britain, in all weathers, at all venues. Most of whom now with the incredibly little capacity for spectating at Greenwich will be limited to watching our own Olympics on tv instead of being there supporting Team GB.
The BEF owe it to the UK equine community to explain why they have not from the start voiced even a tiny opinion and request to get the equine events moved to a more suitable venue. The silence from the start has been frightening. Oh wait a minute. Of course Princess Pushy rules lets not forget. The location has been decided and written in stone by people who have no earthly interest in UK EQUINE SPORT before or after the Olympics. And NO - THE BEF DO NOT CARE ONE LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE FUTURE OF THE SPORT IN THE UK.
Rachel Mawhood
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think you can blame Will Connell for the fact that the 2012 equestrian events venue is - still - Greenwich Park. He - and Lord Coe - attended the fateful Greenwich Council planning board meeting in March last year and spoke forcefully for LOCOG's planning applications. I was there. Had those two really been interested in UK equine sport, they could have talked round Princess Haya. So ask: qui bono. For Lord Coe, the "bono" is the chance of being the next head of the IOC and rewards beyond the dreams of avarice. And Will Connell? Well, you tell me.
teapot
Well-Known Member
To be fair, the BEF are probably slightly more worried about Equestrianism being an Olympic sport or not in the future and if having Greenwich as a venue appeased certain people at the top of the greasy pole, you can kinda understand why they said yes...
Everyone seems to have forgotten the worrying times pre Beijing over the future of the sport...
Everyone seems to have forgotten the worrying times pre Beijing over the future of the sport...
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cefyl
Well-Known Member
BEF should be worried about the future of equestrianism in the UK. The location of the 2012 equine events could well seal the fate of the future of the sport in subsequent Olympics with a totally unsuitable venue. As I said before Head in Sand. And as for appeasing certain people they should be taking care of their own first and foremost and thinking about the horses welfare, not having the courage to do so is appalling, but sadly not surprising.
Wishful
Well-Known Member
At the moment, the two sports at the top of the IOC hit list are fencing and equestrianism - they would like them to be replaced by golf and rugby sevens (or not replaced) as neither are particularly universal and equestrianism costs a fortune and there is a perception that the events can only be run in the grounds of a stately home, or on a dedicated horse stadium, things which don't really exist in the parts of the world the IOC is keen to hold the Olympics...
Plus there are subjective judging issues with both, which the IOC also dislikes.
Fencing (my other sport) has been working unbelievably hard to make the IOC keep it in the olympics as not being an olympic sport would probably kill it stone dead as an international sport. Fortunately Beijing made the Chinese interested, so suddenly it is not dominated by Europe and the USA, which in combination with the new technology (wireless and video replays) gives us a chance of staying part of the Olympic movement.
IF the UK can pull off a good equestrian games in the heart of the Olympic city this will do far more for the future of equestrian sport in the UK than fantastic facilities which get mothballed as the UK sport funding is pulled when equestrianism gets dumped from the Olympics (the difference in funding between the Olympic disciplines and Carriage Driving/Vaulting which aren't Olympic sports is massive). Holding the event at Burghley (or any other established venue) would do nothing for the sustainability of eventing in the Olympic movement as it would show that even with the much vaunted British expertise at running equestrian events, we have to fall back on pre-existing infrastructure. Holding a successful event at Greenwich would show that any city with a decent park (not even a golf course) can hold the equestrian events at the heart of the games, and should help eventing's fight to stay in the Olympics.
I was disappointed not to get tickets, but I'd far rather watch eventing at many future Olympics than see it live once, and never see it again as the IOC managed to ditch it in favour of golf!
Plus there are subjective judging issues with both, which the IOC also dislikes.
Fencing (my other sport) has been working unbelievably hard to make the IOC keep it in the olympics as not being an olympic sport would probably kill it stone dead as an international sport. Fortunately Beijing made the Chinese interested, so suddenly it is not dominated by Europe and the USA, which in combination with the new technology (wireless and video replays) gives us a chance of staying part of the Olympic movement.
IF the UK can pull off a good equestrian games in the heart of the Olympic city this will do far more for the future of equestrian sport in the UK than fantastic facilities which get mothballed as the UK sport funding is pulled when equestrianism gets dumped from the Olympics (the difference in funding between the Olympic disciplines and Carriage Driving/Vaulting which aren't Olympic sports is massive). Holding the event at Burghley (or any other established venue) would do nothing for the sustainability of eventing in the Olympic movement as it would show that even with the much vaunted British expertise at running equestrian events, we have to fall back on pre-existing infrastructure. Holding a successful event at Greenwich would show that any city with a decent park (not even a golf course) can hold the equestrian events at the heart of the games, and should help eventing's fight to stay in the Olympics.
I was disappointed not to get tickets, but I'd far rather watch eventing at many future Olympics than see it live once, and never see it again as the IOC managed to ditch it in favour of golf!