Omega Rice

[kandm]

Hi,

I'm currently struggling getting weight on my girl, she came off the track in October and poor thing has been out 24/7 since as I cannot bring her in. She is currently having two feeds a day consisting of Happy Hoof Chaff (just because she likes it and encourages her to eat), linseed (mug in each feed, so two mugs per day), 1.5kg of winergy growth in each feed (3kg altogether), and alpha beet (1/2kg in dry weight per feed so 1kg per day). She is incredibly fussy eater hence adding a bit of chaff to her feed which somehow encourages her to eat it. I tried adding oil however she turned her nose up at it so have cut it out. She reacts terribly to anything high starch or high sugar sending her into orbit and her brain cells to go 100mph. I am thinking of upping her feed to feeding her three times a day. She also has very good grazing (see post in Tack Room for proof "anyone jealous?").

However, I have heard good things about Omega Rice, so before I buy I was wondering if anyone has any experiences with it?

Thanks,

Kiri

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm a fan.

My "go to" feed mix is Re-leve and Omega Rice, with a supplement if the horse is not getting enough feed to meet its nutriomal needs. (I'd never really considered this until I moved to the UK but I wonder if the current mania for soaking hay and feeding very bland fibre based feeds doesn't only limit calories, it limits nutritional benefit.) I don't feed chaff because it's unknown where I come from and no one has been able to make me see the benefit so long as the horse has ready access to roughage, other than maybe as a bucket filler for horses that don't really need hard feed but live with horses that do. I figure horses' stomachs are small and (again, given a god roughage ration) I want all my hard feed to provide maximum bounce per ounce.

For one that really needs the calories use something like Codlivine for extra oil.

So yes, I think it's a good, useful product. I've fed rice bran for years and had very few horses have a problem with it or refuse it.

One of the coconut oil feeds could also be an koto in, although some horses won't touch it so get a sample.

 

[nikkimariet]

My "go to" feed mix is Re-leve

I've fed rice bran for years and had very few horses have a problem with it or refuse it.

One of the coconut oil feeds could also be an koto in, although some horses won't touch it so get a sample.

Oh TS, Fig would give you such a headache... No Alfa, no peas, no rice and no coconut!

OP, have you considered rolled oats? I know yours is a sharp little wotsit like Fig, and these have put on a LOT of weight with no extra buzz. Cheap as chips too.

'I wonder if the current mania for soaking hay and feeding very bland fibre based feeds doesn't only limit calories, it limits nutritional benefit.'

100% agree with this TS. I have seen a number of horses on this type of diet and they all look ropey and scurfy and lack energy (though I'm sure there are exceptions).

 

[kandm]

I'm very tempted by rolled oats NM I must say! Maybe I will bite the bullet and buy some .

 

[Auslander]

Another rice bran fan here - I use Equijewel for an old TB mare we have her, who has heart problems, and isn't doing too well at the moment. Our vet advised feeding her small, nutrient rich hard feeds without any added fibre, so that she can digest them very easily, then giving her ad lib hay the rest of the time.

My other three are all on Copra - again, I don't feed large amounts in their bucket feeds, just mix the copra with a bit of soaked grass pellet slop and a few handfuls of Chestnut Horse Feeds Alpha Easy. They are all looking very well on that - but they are good doers anyway. The old girl thinks copra is poisonous, but loves the Equijewel.

 

[kandm]

Thank you Auslander I will bare your comments in mind .

 

[GinaGeo]

I really like rice bran. I feed an otherwise fibre based diet, and the rice bran is where the calories come from. He's looking really well with a good shiny coat at present. I'm not feeding much either - only about 200g in total.

I'd definitely feed as often as possible, the smaller the feed the more easily it'll be digested. Mine gets fed at least three times per day, although is feed is quite small.

 

[TarrSteps]

No, Fig wouldn't give ME a headache because I'm not that interested in feeding so if I have a tricky one I just get someone with a bigger body of knowledge to sort it.

 

[whizzer]

Another vote for oats , my super fussy poor doer loves them. He's got loads of energy on them but they don't send him crazy. I tried him just on high fibre bland diet & he just looks awful & rapidly loses interest in the feed. Think there's nothing I've not tried with this horse as he's so difficult to feed! I tried rice bran- equijewell absolutely blew his brains! Strangely he was perfectly sane on the omega stuff & did like it but it didn't do a huge amount for him condition wise, as I had to get it ordered & delivered I knocked it on the head after a few months.

 

[nikkimariet]

No, Fig wouldn't give ME a headache because I'm not that interested in feeding so if I have a tricky one I just get someone with a bigger body of knowledge to sort it.

The bigger body of knowledge doesn't exist in my world, so it's down to me to sort

Oh well. Whatever me and PS get next will be a doddle!

I tried rice bran- equijewell absolutely blew his brains! Strangely he was perfectly sane on the omega stuff

Equijewel blew Figs brains too, probably the E280...

Rice bran doesn't in general agree with Fig, just makes him silly but he was absolutely on another planet when on the EJ.

 

[whizzer]

The equijewell combined with releve high had to be seen to be believed! Copra reaction was epic as well. Hoping to buy a youngster this year & praying I don't end up with another horse like this! Surely nobody could be this unlucky twice....

 

[Archiepoo]

have you tried giving hay or haylage in the field? grass wont have much goodness this time of year even if its a foot high. id give adlib haylage and see if that helps

 

[nikkimariet]

The equijewell combined with releve high had to be seen to be believed!

Same! He was pretty much unrideable until it was out his system, and became very difficult to handle on the ground too. A couple of days off it = normal Fig.

 

[whizzer]

Same! He was pretty much unrideable until it was out his system, and became very difficult to handle on the ground too. A couple of days off it = normal Fig.

Snap! Awful on ground, lethal to ride,even unsettled when turned out! Stupidly braved a short hack,he spooked at literally everything including a bee that flew in front of his nose! Is generally fairly un-shockable out hacking! 3 days cold turkey & back to normal.

 

[Auslander]

Actually - Alf's been a bit bonkers since I started him on copra. Could be that, could be because he's freshly clipped and the wind has been evil. I don't really mind, as he's far better to ride when he's a bit wild. His slightly common ancestry means that he can be a bit pedestrian, so I love it when he gets snorty!

 

[nikkimariet]

Snap! Awful on ground, lethal to ride,even unsettled when turned out! Stupidly braved a short hack,he spooked at literally everything including a bee that flew in front of his nose! Is generally fairly un-shockable out hacking! 3 days cold turkey & back to normal.

Double snap! I know of a number of people who have had similar experiences too. It all made sense after doing a bit of research on E280 though!

 

[Ginn]

Kandm's out but ill try answer...

She gets adlib haylege in field but generally ignores it (as does my greedy pig of a horse) - I know the grass isn't good quality but the girls are on 8 acres of mud free, 6" high dense grass so the fact they're both not fussed about the haylege suggests they don't need/want it at the mo. Same reaction with hay...

Nik - my tb did exceptionally well on the topspec super condition flakes when she lost loads of weight as a youngster so as these are an oat base may try them next???

She is the most fussy eater I've ever come across - she point blank refuses to eat if she doesn't like it which is the main reason shes dropped the weight so quickly and we've struggled to manage it - anything high in starch or sugar and she is a total fruit loop and stresses the weight off (she must have dropped 50kg in a week when we tried this!) so we need calories that she likes the taste of without a high starch or sugar content.

We have tried adding oil (vet reccomendation) but even 1tbsp in her feed and she won't eat it! She loves the hoof kind chaff but it is almost calorie free! However, it coaxes her to eat the rest so its a bit of a compromise.

Hmmm...,

 

[nikkimariet]

Kandm's out but ill try answer...

She gets adlib haylege in field but generally ignores it (as does my greedy pig of a horse) - I know the grass isn't good quality but the girls are on 8 acres of mud free, 6" high dense grass so the fact they're both not fussed about the haylege suggests they don't need/want it at the mo. Same reaction with hay...

Nik - my tb did exceptionally well on the topspec super condition flakes when she lost loads of weight as a youngster so as these are an oat base may try them next???

She is the most fussy eater I've ever come across - she point blank refuses to eat if she doesn't like it which is the main reason shes dropped the weight so quickly and we've struggled to manage it - anything high in starch or sugar and she is a total fruit loop and stresses the weight off (she must have dropped 50kg in a week when we tried this!) so we need calories that she likes the taste of without a high starch or sugar content.

We have tried adding oil (vet reccomendation) but even 1tbsp in her feed and she won't eat it! She loves the hoof kind chaff but it is almost calorie free! However, it coaxes her to eat the rest so its a bit of a compromise.

Hmmm...,

It is a bum that she's out stuffing with grass, I've had the same problem with Fig. Bloats up on grass, comes in and just isn't interested in haylage or hard feed.

Fenugreek powder really kick started Figs appetite, cheap off ebay, maybe worth a try?

I'll be honest in that I don't rate topspec feeds, but a firm believer of horses for courses - the worst that'll happen is it won't work, the best that'll happen is it will work - so no harm in trying. However if it were me I'd be trying (and I do know I bang on about it!) winergy conditioning and rolled oats plus micronised linseed.

If she's ok with alfa, will she eat alfa-a oil instead of the hoofkind? That's got a dmj of around 12 IIRC, so more than the mollichaff.

Sympathies with the fussy eater thing, Fig doesn't like too wet, too dry, too stalky, too cubey or too oily!!!! Good job I love him!

 

[Ginn]

To be honest, I just don't think she likes hay/haylege. Tills will gobble it up on the trailer or on the yard but Pops just doesn't seem interested. Put it down in the field next to her and she'll nibble for a few mins then wander off and tuck into the grass!! That said, she's getting at least the recommended amount of Winergy rations so shouldn't be deficient in anything... Except blooming calories!

She's on the Winergy growth as its the same oil, DE and protein as the Condition but half the starch content of the condition (we did try condition - it completely blew her brains and as that was the only change can only conclude it was the starch!) We spoke to Winergy directly and they said the growth is definitely the more conditioning feed in this case and if anything to add in high energy or to swap to condition if she starts to lack energy under saddle or her work goes up considerably.

Likewise, very wary of the AlfaA Oil - I've had both tills and my old exracer on it and it sent both loopy to the extreme so very wary of it... Not worth ruling out but would need to be mega careful that Tilly didn't get anywhere near it!

Will have a google of the nutritional values of normal oats verses topspec flakes tomorrow for K and see what differences are. Straight oats would certainly be cheaper but it depends which is more calorific and palatable for the little monkey! Do you feed Fig a particular brand?

Out of interest, did fig and CS come from the trainer and if so, did you adapt their diet much when you got them and how did they adjust? The grooms told us pops was having 2 full buckets of hard feed 3x day and looking at her eat (she pecks and nibbles very slowly - teeth were done by one of the leading dental vets in the sw 2 weeks ago so teeth deffo not the issue) I suspect it took her much of the day to eat this (it takes her over half an hour to eat 1/2 a bucket!) and I wonder if not only was she never really hungry because food was in abundance but whether she didn't really eat much hay/haylege either so it's just taking longer than we expected for her to adapt to her new lifestyle and diet???

 

[Ginn]

Will also suggest k tries the fenugreek! Anything's worth a shot if it makes it tasty for her

 

[nikkimariet]

To be honest, I just don't think she likes hay/haylege. Tills will gobble it up on the trailer or on the yard but Pops just doesn't seem interested. Put it down in the field next to her and she'll nibble for a few mins then wander off and tuck into the grass!! That said, she's getting at least the recommended amount of Winergy rations so shouldn't be deficient in anything... Except blooming calories!

She's on the Winergy growth as its the same oil, DE and protein as the Condition but half the starch content of the condition (we did try condition - it completely blew her brains and as that was the only change can only conclude it was the starch!) We spoke to Winergy directly and they said the growth is definitely the more conditioning feed in this case and if anything to add in high energy or to swap to condition if she starts to lack energy under saddle or her work goes up considerably.

Likewise, very wary of the AlfaA Oil - I've had both tills and my old exracer on it and it sent both loopy to the extreme so very wary of it... Not worth ruling out but would need to be mega careful that Tilly didn't get anywhere near it!

Will have a google of the nutritional values of normal oats verses topspec flakes tomorrow for K and see what differences are. Straight oats would certainly be cheaper but it depends which is more calorific and palatable for the little monkey! Do you feed Fig a particular brand?

Out of interest, did fig and CS come from the trainer and if so, did you adapt their diet much when you got them and how did they adjust? The grooms told us pops was having 2 full buckets of hard feed 3x day and looking at her eat (she pecks and nibbles very slowly - teeth were done by one of the leading dental vets in the sw 2 weeks ago so teeth deffo not the issue) I suspect it took her much of the day to eat this (it takes her over half an hour to eat 1/2 a bucket!) and I wonder if not only was she never really hungry because food was in abundance but whether she didn't really eat much hay/haylege either so it's just taking longer than we expected for her to adapt to her new lifestyle and diet???

Will also suggest k tries the fenugreek! Anything's worth a shot if it makes it tasty for her

It might be worth trying readi grass or something as a forage replacer then?

How odd that she reacted to the conditioning! The growth is higher calorie due to higher alfa content, so you'd want to say P would be ok with alfa-a as a chaff? (I'm the same with Fig and CS' feeds/buckets, no contamination otherwise CS will fall asleep and Fig will be galloping into next year!). Be careful with the high energy, it has maize in it, which is effectively crack for horses!

Fig has just plain, own brand oats straight from the farm Interesting comment re: which is more calorific. Fig used to be on releve. Which, theoretically speaking, should be perfect for him. It's got a higher DMJ than the conditioning, but by the end of the releve course he quite honestly looked like a ropey, stringy bag of ****. As I said, horses for courses. Unfortunately with feed, there is no quick fix and it takes time to sort out. And even when you do find the the right thing you have to spend more time fiddling about with quantities!!!

No idea re: previous diets. CS was well looked after, and arrived in the pink of health. Fig... Not so much, all ribs and hips with no muscle. As he was unloaded I was told 'he hasn't had his teeth done in a while' lol, he ate up a lot better after having them done but I've since been told he's a notoriously fussy and slow eater (takes him 35 mins to eat 1 scoop of feed).

We just introduced hard feed slowly as normal, but plenty of turnout and always ad lib haylage. Thinking back, it took Fig quite a while to settle. He was very very quiet for a couple of months, and then a rowdy teenager for a few more. Probably around 10 months before he seemed to breathe that sigh of relief and just get on with it. Although, bless him, every time he had been on a lorry before it had meant going to a different country, so can't really blame him!

Fenugreek powder (more effective than the seeds) def worth a try Can buy it in small pouches for a few pounds.

Would really recommend micronised linseed too, as so high calorie but would be quite a small amount so would work with her being fussy?

 

[whizzer]

I've used the top spec flakes with success but find plain oats just as good but loads cheaper. Also use fenugreek & mint to tempt eating. I'm another who has the problem of horse stuffing itself on long grass then hardly eating any haylage or feed. We swapped into a rested field about 4 weeks ago & mine's now eating about half what he was.

 

[whizzer]

Have you tried the spillers conditioning chaff? Mine absolutely loves it, I use dried grass in winter but the spillers stuff works well in summer when he's out 24/7 & has zero interest in feed. At the moment I'm using solution mash as temptation & that's going down well. Mine likes cubes & I generally use the top spec cubes, I tried baileys top line cubes in the autumn but he was no fatter on them so swapped back to top spec as the starch is much lower.

 

[Ginn]

Nik - she already gets a large (probably not far off pint sized) mug of micronised linseed in each feed.
Re the AlfaA - tills is fine with alfabeet, fine with the Winergy, fine with mollichaff alfalfa but the dengie AlfaA - she literally becomes the spawn of Satan over night!!! I have no idea why but they must put something in it! Discovered that mollichaff do an alfalfa oil that has equivalent DE, oil, protein etc as the dengie AlfaA oil so will try that as we know they're ok with mollichaff alfalfa. Have also ordered in some bruised oats with a soya oil dressing! Fingers crossed.

Wizzer - think K is deffo going to try the fenugreek. Not looked at the spillers but will look into it if the alfalfa oil doesn't appeal.

We sat down and calculated her calorie intake versus need this morning and worked out she needs 80 MJ/day for maintenance so up by 25% to allow for weight gain we're looking at getting 100MJ into her a day. She is getting 40MJ/day over her current 2 feeds and by adding in a 3rd feed, swapping the mollichaff for alfalfa oil, adding in 1.5kg oats a day she will be getting 70MJ/day which means 30MJ/day will need to come from the grass (which is about right for the time of year).

In comparison, Tilly (also tb) who is in harder work and is approx 100kg heavier needs about 120 MJ/day and only gets approx 30 MJ/day in hard food (so about 25%) - the rest comes from the grazing and she is both looking an feeling great so hopefully we are on the right tracks with Pops.

Unfortunately the poor little thing has gone from being in, in fairly hard work, on very large quantities of hard feed and haylege and not having to cope with the great british weather; to living out 24/7, having a very different routine, doing only very light work and also having a growth spurt so despite making changes very gradually an sensitively we've not quite got it right for her and she's not had the easiest few months. However, the weather looks to be improving and as of this week her and Tilly are in together rather than next to each other (which she is so much happier with) so I'm hoping things are back on the up!