OMFG - Advice please!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter JoG
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OP, have you spoken to the loaners vet? Are you sure a vet has been called, I am now expecting you to be offered a lower price than you first asked, as the horse 'is now not worth what I first agreed to pay'. Yes I am a cynical old bat, but it sounds very fishy to me. btw my foster daughter has 7 displaced vertebrae and would find a long journey almost impossible, and that is with weekly chiro. She cannot be operated on and her back is unfortunately unfixable. She takes morphine on a daily basis and is likely to for the rest of her life (which has no doubt been shortened by this) So please the know-it-alls who say any back can be fixed, take heed.
 
from what I have read, I first thought well, a loan, means, loan, so the horse is in the loanees care. If she calls the vet, then maybe she didnt think it was necessary to tell the owner? I would, but then I would be very sensitive to the owner, as I live and breathe my horses.
If it was my horse and the Op is that unhappy with the horses care and the loanee, I would take the horse back. I should suspect that you will always have doubts about the loanees care. If the loanee is not coping then the horse could be passed on to another home, if she buys him. Any horse that I have bought, Ive been over the moon with my new ownership, sounds like to me, the loanee isnt that 'made up' and has severe doubts about the horse. I would be concerned that even if she buys him, she might not keep him.
 
yorksg ..please read the NICE recommendations for back treatment!" and there is treatment available but you might have to fight your case?! and it might take a combination of treatment (and poss surgery!) morphine is great! but also additive! but hey ho dig your head in the sand or the muck heap! backs can b and are sorted. look at NICE recommendations!
 
I think you need to speak to the loanee to see what has gone on in more detail, and perhaps speak to the vet to see what they think has caused the problem. It sounds like she has been responsible by calling the vet, but you need to find out if the problems have been caused by her not caring for him particularly well, or are just natural occurring symptoms which have just been rather unfortunate timing in which case she has done the right thing and should not be assumed to be responsible - local fields may have been sprayed with something that hasn't agreed with him, as an example - if she wasn't aware of this it can hardly be her fault - the vet should be able to give you their opinion. I'd definitely look into it more before you make a decision.
 
Wow - so much interest in my back! thanks for the implications that I am just using a bit of back pain as an excuse to sit around doing nothing :rolleyes: of course if I could go I would but after 4months off work, 6 weeks bedridden, giving up riding, twice weekly physio, acupuncture, numerous exercises and a whole host of painkillers/NSAIDS I am still only just avoiding an operation to have 2 joints in my spine and 1 in my pelvis fused so travelling is definitely NOT an option and I am pretty confident that I am doing everything to treat it :(

Having slept on it (and had awful dreams about my horse having turned from black beauty into the tired cab horse :( ) I have to wait until the vet sees him on Thursday and speak to them direct about what his health problems are and what treatment he needs.

There is a full legal contract in place and the loanee will be paying for any treatment that is necessary whilst he is in her care. There is also no negotiation on price, that has already been set....but I want the best home for him so am also going to try and speak to the instructor and see if she thinks the rider is overhorsed.

I bought this horse wanting to give him a home for life, I didn't realise things would change so drasrtically....if it isn't the right home now, then I have to face my disappointment and my feelings of having let him down have him back, which again is a complete nightmare butgoing to have to make a solution, find someone I can trust to ride him, under my supervision, then readvertise him and find the right home for him, without a loan period so that I have to make a complete break from worrying about his welfare :(

My luck this year has been really bad this year, one thing after another...so in the hope that I am due a change I have bought lots of lottery tickets and if I win and buy a mansion he can live the life of riley, in a field getting fat :)
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
yorksg ..please read the NICE recommendations for back treatment!" and there is treatment available but you might have to fight your case?! and it might take a combination of treatment (and poss surgery!) morphine is great! but also additive! but hey ho dig your head in the sand or the muck heap! backs can b and are sorted. look at NICE recommendations!
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i'm sorry, i know this is hijacking the post slightly... but...

this is REALLY ***ing me off! who on earth are you to tell people their back problems are fixable?!?! jeez, how rude. do you think people spend their lives in pain/allow their children to spend their lives in pain FOR FUN?

Seriously? i'm quite sure yorksg is aware that morphine can be addictive, i'm quite sure when your child is in pain you do anything you can to get them fixed. so don't accuse her of digging her head in the sand. that's downright obnoxious.

yes, some back problems are treatable. but, some aren't. or some take time. you know nothing of the history of the OP's back problems, or indeed yorksg's child's back problems. and you know NOTHING about the treatment they have tried etc.

you're rude, and i think what you're saying is very hurtful.
 
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clipcloppop said:
i'm sorry, i know this is hijacking the post slightly... but...

this is REALLY peeing me off! who on earth are you to tell people their back problems are fixable?!?! jeez, how rude. do you think people spend their lives in pain/allow their children to spend their lives in pain FOR FUN?

fecking hell, seriously? i'm quite sure yorksg is aware that morphine can be addictive, i'm quite sure when your child is in pain you do anything you can to get them fixed. so don't accuse her of digging her head in the sand. that's downright fecking obnoxious.

yes, some back problems are treatable. but, some aren't. or some take time. you know nothing of the history of the OP's back problems, or indeed yorksg's child's back problems. and you know NOTHING about the treatment they have tried etc.

you're rude, and i think what you're saying is very hurtful.
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Fully agree, i was :eek: when i read that post! Seems to me someone has a chip on their shoulder about back problems! The OP is not you ofcourseyoucan, neither is everyone else with a back problem. How could you possibly think ALL back problems are treatable?? that is a foolish thing to say and i'm sure all the thousands of people with UN-treatable back problems who are taking strong painkillers just to get through the day would agree. Besides, this thread is about the loanees horse! not her back.
 
yorksG said:
OP, have you spoken to the loaners vet? Are you sure a vet has been called, I am now expecting you to be offered a lower price than you first asked, as the horse 'is now not worth what I first agreed to pay'. Yes I am a cynical old bat, but it sounds very fishy to me. btw my foster daughter has 7 displaced vertebrae and would find a long journey almost impossible, and that is with weekly chiro. She cannot be operated on and her back is unfortunately unfixable. She takes morphine on a daily basis and is likely to for the rest of her life (which has no doubt been shortened by this) So please the know-it-alls who say any back can be fixed, take heed.
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Actually this makes sense, she could have made it up (there are people out there like that!) This may be why she didn't 'tell you' about the vets visit, so she could now say the condition has improved if you investigated withyour own vet, whereas if she told you at the time evidence would be needed.

YorksG I wish your daughter some comfort in a difficult time :(
 
I see no reason why you can't speak to the loanee's vet now, about the treatment/investigation the horse has already had. All the loanee has to do is give there permisson to the vet. So what i would do is call the loanee up, tell them you want to talk to there vet about whats going on now. If the loanee is not compliant, then that would tell me all i need to know.

When i had a horse on loan with issues, i was more than happy for the owner to speak to the vet. I had nothing to hide. Only the vet can tell you what is going on. Once you have established weather or not the story is genuine, then you can decide what is best.
 
yorksG said:
OP, have you spoken to the loaners vet? Are you sure a vet has been called, I am now expecting you to be offered a lower price than you first asked, as the horse 'is now not worth what I first agreed to pay'. Yes I am a cynical old bat, but it sounds very fishy to me. btw my foster daughter has 7 displaced vertebrae and would find a long journey almost impossible, and that is with weekly chiro. She cannot be operated on and her back is unfortunately unfixable. She takes morphine on a daily basis and is likely to for the rest of her life (which has no doubt been shortened by this) So please the know-it-alls who say any back can be fixed, take heed.
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Can I just say I don't know how your foster daughter copes with this, she must be very strong emotionally. Anyone who has back problems, me included, will know how distressing her condition must be especially with no hope of improvement.

To JoG - I really hope things work out for you, we all make decisions based on our needs at the time, sometimes they work out sometimes they don't. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Some of the feedback comments have been really horrible and I can only assume these people don't actually have lives for so little to go wrong for them and end up devoid of compassion.
 
JoG, sorry to hear about all of the problems with your back and that your LVWTB is not running as smoothly as you hoped.
Have you not got a knowledgable friend (admittedly it would need to be some friend to be willing to travel that distance to see your horse on your behalf, someone you trust) but could you not get someone that you know and that knows your horse to go and see it to a) check on its conditions, b) check that its not a scam by the loanee, c) check on its health and see it being ridden to see if its the rider that is making this horse spooky etc.
8 weeks is not a long time to get to grips with a new horse. I will have had my new one 8 weeks tomorrow. Yesterday was the first time i was able to get him to hack alone (he napps) without having a spook (he spooks at a lot!) and without getting really hyped up. He still tries it on at times, tests me, etc etc.....! But i feel that im starting to get to know him now and can deal with his antics. Although i have to admit that at times.....if he had been a loan horse....he would have gone back!!!! But then you get a day when you are jumping a course and i have a big grin on my face and know that in time when i am fully used to him, we will be fine. Unless that is that your person has totally over horsed herself.

I think you need to speak to the vet to check on what has happened/or is being done. Also maybe get an independant vet, someone you have chosen to go and see your horse and get a second opinion.

Failing that, if you are still not happy, have the horse back and get a sharer for the time being to cut the costs down a bit untill you are happy to either put him up for loan WVTB close to your home or you sell him.

Really hope everything works out for you.
 
jog... I think that with all the oncerns and things that dont add up its time to either
a) ask loaner for pictures of your horse.. be picky and say can u see one of him in the school or on lunge .. just so you know the pis have been taken today. .. hes eye. ask for a piccie of him and his eye...

b) take up an offer of a hho member going to have a look at him, it can be done in a descreat way.. walks going past the field.. somebody going in to ask about livery etc . or just be honest with the loaner and tell her a friend is going to see him.

i understand you can not get there, and i also understand how helpless and woried you must feel. horses can deterirate (sp) so quickly, vet due or not, just take a bit of action to ensure horse is ok and for your own piece of mind.
 
Why dont you ring and speak to the vet if you are not happy with what the loanee is telling you?

TBH I have to agree with everyone else. She has noticed a problem and has tried to sort it. I think she is being very responsible. She could have just sent the horse back. I think you are being very harsh on her. She obviously has the horse's best interest at heart otherwise she would not be trying to rectify the problem.
 
I have to agree with Nat1003 completely; until you hear from the vet you're just torturing yourself.

The cynic in me says loaner might be trying it on but what has happened to the horse while she's had it on loan, has happened on her watch; you can't be responsible for that and that is no reason for her to expect you to lower your price - which to my mind, you shouldn't anyway.
 
ofcourseyoucan said:
As for your back problem 1 get it fixed!!!! a disc operable or not? some good chiroparacting and acupuncture should fix most things that an op cant! but does involve lots of exercises!
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My goodness, if someone said that to me about my bad neck/shoulders I would be absolutely furious! What an insensitive thing to say! :mad::mad:
 
If you check her history she/he only seems to ever post to stir things - some people should get a life :rolleyes:

No news today, though I have found a couple of yards and a couple of people looking for a horse like him (or rather like he was when he left me)

i think I am resigned to him coming home, just need to get that for definite from her tomorrow and get a vet diagnosis and prognosis so he can be treated properly :(
 
clipcloppop said:
you should see her next few posts... apparently ALL back problems are curable... *sigh*
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I would *love* to hear how to *magically* cure my neck & shoulder problems.

Seriously, anyone have a magic solution to fix a screwed up neck after being double barreled in the face...?! :rolleyes:
 
JoG Hope everything works out ok and you get your lad back in one piece and find a good home for him in the near future.
Puppy, hope the neck and shoulders improve a bit more with time :)
 
I can see this from both sides I think the the person who has JoG's horse on LWVTB has been responsible by getting the vet, changing the bedding as advised and probably didn't want to mention anything and worry JoG until she had found the horses breathing wasn't improving and that she wasn't coping with the ridden issues.

JoG is obviously concerned about her horse but hopefully with regard to the ridden behaviour it's just a simple case of a new horse testing out his/her rider as you can't travel to see your horse and assess the situation yourself I would get the opinion of a good RI regarding the ridden issues and listen to what the vet says.

If you handle this tactfully then it shouldn't cause any friction and your horse may still end up with the perfect home you thought he was getting, if she no longer feels she can cope with him then find him another home.

Horses behave differently with different people just because your horse was angelic with you doesn't mean he will behave for someone else.

I realise it must be very hard for you to 'give up' your horse due to your injury but I hardly think he's being ruined.
 
Off-topic is good, and i love talking about my wooflies!!

They are both Spaniels with at times quite drastic hair cuts....Molly (brown spaniel) is a Sprocker (working cocker x springer) and is sort of gun trained. Archie (spotty spaniel) is a working springer but sadly quite overbred and has bad joints and not many braincells :rolleyes: :D He is a speshul Mummy's boy though :D

Back on topic...I spoke to the senior vet who saw my boy today and he was happy that the cough/breathing noise is dust related (had him cantered for 10minutes and apart from his normal grunting if he gets overbent was happy there was no roaring or wheezing) :D he also thinks the eye is allergy related - he said he would describe it as irritated not bloodshot.

So I do feel a wally for completely over-reacting and worrying my boy is borderline RSPCA :o though I still think she could have been more open in the first place to avoid my mad mother hen impression :o

The loanee is however still not prepared to give me a definite answer on whether she will keep him - she has a lesson on Sunday and that is the latest time she can decide in terms of the notice on the contract. I think I am well prepared for him to come back so have got some yards and fields to look at and have some quotes from transporters....luckily I'm not too far from Newmarket so am hoping to get a shared load.
Really want to give him a big hug and lots of apples!!

Thanks for all your advice, opinions and input. Having unbiased and rational perspectives has been a great help :)

Haagen Das and Pinot grigio all round :D
 
Really glad he is ok. That must be a weight lifted. And you're in my neck of the woods. Sort of. East Anglia anyway. I hope that whether he comes home or he stays where he is he is ok and happy. Phew.
 
Puppy said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by clipcloppop
you should see her next few posts... apparently ALL back problems are curable... *sigh*


My goodness, if someone said that to me about my bad neck/shoulders I would be absolutely furious! What an insensitive thing to say! :mad::mad:
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I must tell my mums doctor that, as he seems to say that her back is irreversibly damaged - well the sciatic bones are fused. Must also tell me OH, who the doctor says they cant do anything for other than using painkillers, and for my sister who has same issue as my mum.

Managable yes, curable not always.
 
So JOG what is happening with your horse now? All this concern and then you've not let us know what the conclusion was after Sunday's lesson.
 
Please don't all get cross.....I have no real update so was sort of hiding :o

She didn't have her lesson because she has a bruise on her ribs from when she fell off him a week ago and so hasn't ridden, is only lunging him :(

OH and I have agreed he just has to come back, I just have to find a yard or field in the area with a space (saw 2 at the weekend but both have waiting lists) then will bring him home. I've also seen an advert for an eventer offering schooling livery which if not too far away may be a very good option, going to call today and discuss

Everything seems to take so long :(
 
Haven't read all the posts but please don't avoid the surgery, I had severe narrowing of the spinal canal on 2 vertebrate and a badly prolapsed disc, so i can fully sympathise, it wouldn't have mattered how much i saw a physio/chiro etc it would never have cured my problem. I had the surgery last july and am now 100% better, it has been a bit of a long haul but i would never go back to how i was.
Good luck with everything, chase up your neurosurgeon (if you haven't got that far, push for a referral NOW)
 
jrp204 said:
Haven't read all the posts but please don't avoid the surgery, I had severe narrowing of the spinal canal on 2 vertebrate and a badly prolapsed disc, so i can fully sympathise, it wouldn't have mattered how much i saw a physio/chiro etc it would never have cured my problem. I had the surgery last july and am now 100% better, it has been a bit of a long haul but i would never go back to how i was.
Good luck with everything, chase up your neurosurgeon (if you haven't got that far, push for a referral NOW)
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Thank you - but surgery would be to fuse my SI joints, which is pretty major and I have yet to exhaust all other options to rebuild the muscle and try and stabilise them :) Fusing them would have a dramatic impact on my job....
 
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