OMG Clayton Fredericks Burghley XC

Just watched the footage, what a terrible fall. the horse looked really wobbly. I think Clayton was perphaps in abit of shock and he did have a look at his horse, maybe he was expecting the worst.

Respect to Sam Penn
 
Kerilli- you do know its not possible to fracture a liver- Im presuming you mean lacerated?
How long ago was that as if very serious cut to it then he would have 8 weeks off no matter what to prevent further injury.
Im shocked he rode back- shouldn't have been allowed. He was clearly scared to look after the fall and must have feared the worst, but to then get on after the accident it just plain stupid shock or not no one should have let it happen.
 
Poor Sam Penn, that was a horrific fall. Her first Burghley too. She said on facebook earlier that the horse is fine.

Just watched Clayton's fall and I can't understand why anyone is criticising him, he walked round and looked at the horse from the top, then the steward said they had him. Then as he was walking off he patted the horse on the bum.

To me he looked winded and shocked, not sure anyone would be able to jump up after a fall like that!
 
dizzydancer said:
Kerilli- you do know its not possible to fracture a liver- Im presuming you mean lacerated?
How long ago was that as if very serious cut to it then he would have 8 weeks off no matter what to prevent further injury.
Im shocked he rode back- shouldn't have been allowed. He was clearly scared to look after the fall and must have feared the worst, but to then get on after the accident it just plain stupid shock or not no one should have let it happen.
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No, it is actually possible to fracture a liver. I queried it when I read the reports at the time, in fact. It's a medical term, for specific damage to or partial separation of the lobes of the liver I think, something like that.
It happened at Fontainebleu iirc, so a few months before the Olympics. The horse either trod or knelt on his chest while he was on the floor. He spent a week in hospital I believe.

I do slightly question the stewards' wisdom in letting him ride back today tbh, but there we go.

As for horses being taken back in horse ambulance no matter what - no, I hope not. Precautionary if they might have, say, a leg injury, but otherwise far better for them to walk back and get their breath back, surely.
 
just summoned up the nerve to watch Clayton's round...he actually looks to me as if when he gets up, which is pretty quickly, he looks at his horse expecting the absolute worst and then turns in huge relief (and surprise) that he is ok - as he looks at him he lets out a sigh too....I dont think he should have ridden him back though, horses get ruddy sore too after falls and the horse's was far worse than his. He deserved to have his tack off and be led...but hopefully he is being well looked after tonight.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Surely to compete at this level the rider should have the ability to know when to stop the horse. Horseware Bushman's round was not pleasant to watch either.
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But even when they don't seem to have the ability to know when to pull up, isnt there supposed to be stewards on course who can red (?) flag and retire riders....but how many times at top level is it used? Sounds as though it could have been used today?
 
AdorableAlice said:
Regardless of the level of compassion shown or not shown, can someone please explain to me why a world class rider is seen to be pressing a clearly exhausted horse into one of the biggest fences on the course ?

I know little about horses but to my uneducated eye, the Fredericks horse and the horse that took a terrible fall at the steps were both very near the end of the petrol tank when they fell.

Surely to compete at this level the rider should have the ability to know when to stop the horse. Horseware Bushman's round was not pleasant to watch either.
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Totally agree. I have far greater issues with the way he was riding and the state of the horse (tapping almost every fence) BEFORE the fall, when presumably he wasn't suffering from shock/concussion, and the way he approached the Leap (as Kerilli says it was obviously not going to go well), than I do with the aftermath of the fall.

And to ride that poor horse back afterwards, well I seriously doubt I'd have been able to contain myself if I'd been there :(
 
I have just watched it from the link on here, I think that he was winded & quite honestly too scared to look. The horse did look tired & was a bit tappy all the way round, he gave him a reminder & the horse just didn't respond. Having never competed at that level I don't feel qualified to answer on whether he should have continued, but as a pro it is his job to get the horse round, he isn't out for a jolly so he made his decision & had to go with it, the end result was clearly not good, but I can remember Mark Todd with a tired horse, he gave him a reminder, galvanised the horse into action & finished up well.
 
Watching it, and hearing the horse actually clip numerous fences before it got to that one, you can see why he hit it. The horse was just not up to it. He was tired or something, but there was no oomph or even keenness in his going.

I dont think CF was cruel not checking him, you can clearly hear the steward shout "ive got him" . He was most likely winded and realised that all rushing to the horse as well wouldn't be wise as what if it tried to jump out of the ditch?
 
Maybe it's because he is a bloke? They don't generally seem to panic and flap as much as us ladies. :p
Don't get me wrong, it would have been nice to see him run up to Walterstown Don and give him a big hug and a pat, (i know i would have!) but he could see that he was up on all four pins (Thank goodness) and i imagine he had had one hell of a shock and needed to get his bearings back.
 
I just watched video to see what had happened.
I have had some bad falls obviously not at this level I am a wimp. I know what shock feels like I have fallen and then crawled back to my horse. I have fallen and not known it was my horse. I have fallen and lain on the ground and shouted ignore me catch my horse and I have fallen and been so confused that I just passed my reins to a friend and walked away confused. Gosh thats a lot but I am nearly 100.

I would say CF was slightly stunned and in shock wasnt sure that the horse was or could be in one piece as was the horse shocked too hence the whinny.
 
Some horrible falls, I've always thought that fence was completely terrifying. From the video footage you can see that although he doesn't rush over to see how it is, he does look over 2-3 times and seems to breathe a sigh of relief - I think he was probably very hurt himself and in shock from what just happened. The whinney from the horse is heartbreaking though, it did seem tired.
Sam Penn's reaction was incredible, did she even touch the ground before she ran to see how her horse was?! The panic in her voice did make my blood run cold. Hope all the fallers recover ok and aren't too battered.
 
it is his job to get his horse round but not at the expense of the horse! other riders retired their horses because they werent going properly or wouldnt be fair to the horses....i know who id want on.my very expensive eventer
 
It looks like CF got up half looked back then turned away my impression was he thought his horse was badly hurt especially when the horse whinnied. It was a reactive thing. Plus he had a hefty fall - he must have known he was in trouble approaching that fence. Will give him the benefit of the doubt on this occasion.
 
gemin1eye said:
it is his job to get his horse round but not at the expense of the horse! other riders retired their horses because they werent going properly or wouldnt be fair to the horses....i know who id want on.my very expensive eventer
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This is where I get confused, everyone is slating CF but to me SP's horse looked a lot more uneasy going round imo.
 
monkeybum13 said:
Where is everyone watching Sam Penn running to check her horse.

On burghley.tv from what I can see she shouted 'where is he' but a steward caught the horse and lead it around just like they did for Clayton :confused:
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On burghley.tv at 4.20 on her video she is up as soon as she can and asking after him before being told to sit down by a steward as he is caught and led out from the ditch and they bring him round so she can see him.

I felt really bad for her, it must be a horrible fence to have your horse fall at and he seemed to be loving it up to then apart from the first water.

As for clayton I think he looks scared to look and in shock but relieved when the steward brings his horse out using all 4 legs.
 
I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and
kiss and hug their horse after being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse.
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses.
Quite literally unbelievable.
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
 
ribbons said:
I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and
kiss and hug their horse after being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse.
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses.
Quite literally unbelievable.
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
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agree with you, we had a horse there, and the ground was very holding
 
ribbons said:
I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and
kiss and hug their horse after being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse.
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses.
Quite literally unbelievable.
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
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I quite agree.
 
Its not that they need to run and kiss their horse don't be so stupid - its that they need the common sense to pull a tired horse up before a fall like that happens! Mary King clearly felt Kings Temptress wasn't having a good day, so she pulled her up - ditto WFP on Seacookie. The horse should always be the riders top priority, certainly over winning or finishing the event. I don't think its particuarly bunny huggerish to say that?
 
ribbons said:
I do have to smile at all the 4* event riders giving their expert opinion ( from the sofa of course ) on how a rider needs to run and
kiss and hug their horse after being flung over the fence, regardless of whether they are winded concussed or injured, despite stewards on hand attending the horse.
Strangely some of the 'experts' dishing out the strongest criticism seem to often be on HHO with riding and care problems of a
very basic nature. But I guess it's the kissing and cuddling that makes a real horseman.
Get real people.....it's a hard and dangerous sport for horse and rider, but no one is indifferent when an accident happens. A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude to his horses.
Quite literally unbelievable.
Now I'll b****er off before I'm slated for slating the slaters. It's like being in a playground.
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This is hilarious. Where did you hear anyone claiming they were an expert? When did anyone say the fact that he didnt run over and kiss and hug his horse means that he isn't an amazing rider?

When were people suddenly not allowed to say what their opinion was of a moment in time? Most people have said 'it seemed heartless that he didn't attempt to see to the animal' or something to that effect. That is their opinion. In their opinion they would have liked him to show more care for the animal. LOTS of people have then come on to say - he was shocked, injured, concerned for his own health; I completely agree - he was probably all of those. That doesnt change the fact that lots of people would have liked him to have paid more attention to the horse.

The other stuff about 'A few seconds of tv coverage of an incident and people seem to know the man personally and have full knowledge of his character and attitude' is just silly. Nobody commenting on the fall has really commented on anything other than his seemingly cool attitude after the fall. I commented on how I found him to be when I was around him at an event one day. People can have their opinions.

I don't think it is fair that you have criticised people here for having an opinion and therefore claiming they are 'experts' from the 'sofa'. So we're not all 4* event riders. I've never claimed to be one but should I feel like I can't have an opinion on something I saw because I'm not a pro rider or anywhere near? Opinions only reserved for the very experienced?
 
or owners for that matter...my first homebred is coming up to an age to be backed and later competed by a professional rider. I will be entrusting his care to that rider and would want to see care and compassion for them from that rider....after all, the riders rarely own the horses they compete. Just because someone may not be a 4* rider, does not mean they cannot have an opinion. I did not see anything he did that would make me not want him to ride my horses, I definitely saw something from Sam Penn that would make me look her way perhaps....I currently have my eye on a young professional showjumper (in a non-stalkerish way), and like what I see of how she is with horses so far - equally, I have seen a rider I wouldn't let clean my horse's stable, let alone ride him. Opinions are just that, opinions.
 
merlinsquest said:
I have just watched it from the link on here, I think that he was winded & quite honestly too scared to look. The horse did look tired & was a bit tappy all the way round, he gave him a reminder & the horse just didn't respond. Having never competed at that level I don't feel qualified to answer on whether he should have continued, but as a pro it is his job to get the horse round, he isn't out for a jolly so he made his decision & had to go with it, the end result was clearly not good, but I can remember Mark Todd with a tired horse, he gave him a reminder, galvanised the horse into action & finished up well.
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The difference between mark's horse and Clayton's is that Mark had about 1 minute to go with 3 relatively straightforward fences that weren't huge. Clayton had about 5 mins with some big, wide fences to jump.

Dab said:
But even when they don't seem to have the ability to know when to pull up, isnt there supposed to be stewards on course who can red (?) flag and retire riders....but how many times at top level is it used? Sounds as though it could have been used today?
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There were spotters around the course but they have to report back to the ground jury who stop the horse if they deem it necessary. From the time that Clayton sharpened the horse and he got no response to the time he fell, there was only 1 person who would have time to react and that was Clayton. The only other one that I saw that I thought should have pulled up or been stopped was Horseware Bushman after he refused.

kerilli said:
No, it is actually possible to fracture a liver. I queried it when I read the reports at the time, in fact. It's a medical term, for specific damage to or partial separation of the lobes of the liver I think, something like that.
It happened at Fontainebleu iirc, so a few months before the Olympics. The horse either trod or knelt on his chest while he was on the floor. He spent a week in hospital I believe.

I do slightly question the stewards' wisdom in letting him ride back today tbh, but there we go.

As for horses being taken back in horse ambulance no matter what - no, I hope not. Precautionary if they might have, say, a leg injury, but otherwise far better for them to walk back and get their breath back, surely.
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It was at Saumur when Be My Guest trod on him. I agree about the decision to ride him back. Who knows if there could have been any internal damage and he was very tired anyway and Clayton is not a light weight! It was probably safer for him to walk than overheat in a trailer but he should have been led.
 
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