OMG DAMN HERDING INSTINCT!

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Lucy_Nottingham

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Went on a walk up on winterhill, near my house, on sunday.

Its a field with sheep in, but its HUGE like MASSIVE and its a public footpath through the middle of it and so sheep etc stay WAY away from it, so we went for a lovely off the lead walk.

Was great beau was really well behaved, came back when called etc, even came away from 2 dogs we met (our biggest problem). However, got to a ridge on our way up the hill, and ears pricked up, I called him, he turned, turned back pricked again and set off........

O SH*T I think was my responce! Charging across the field as my dog goes after 3 sheep! Not to bite/eat them, just the chase!!! Which was almost worse cause of corse the sheep played along (in his head)

He came back after about 3 minutes without harming the sheep! But I was TERRIFIED either he was not going to come back, he was going to catch a sheep, or the farmer was going to SHOOT HIM! I just sat and wanted to cried when he came back!

AHHHHHHHHHHH

sorry rant over!!!

he is back to stage 1 for learning his manners! I am also thining about getting one of the collars which does the beep, vibrate, small shock to teach him a bit more respect off the lead, as he is not a I will do what you say or do for a treat or toy sort of dog!

Anyone else had issues like this?!
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tbh I think you need to get some training help, your posts on here are often about him doing something and I think you may be getting frustrated with him un necessarily and it may be your training techniques the issue.
He is also still young, so don't expect too much of him.
 
I had a rottie who wouldn't come back. I spent a fortune on a professional trainer and we got nowhere. Holly was one stubborn lady. We also have sheep and cattle around us so as a last resort I bought a remote training collar. However, my smart ass lady worked out it's range and legged it when I wasn't looking!! Sadly she is no longer with us but she was a star.
 
If you were in a field with livestock he should have been on a lead i'm afraid. If a farmer sees him chasing sheep he can shoot him.
 
He has been to a trainer, and although he said he was a good dog he obviously needed a stronger hand...

He is trying really hard to be good, but at the same time he gets so easily distracted its difficult to teach him in situations like that.

I am not getting frustrated with him, I just was so scared about him I just needed to think of a way to get him to listen more to me off the lead with distractions around.

I know he is young so I am not expecting perfection, but I am expecting a bit more respect than he shows me, he knows the commands, but he chooses to ignore them. I have trained him to sit, down, stay, and recall. as I say though, when there is a distraction it all goes out the window.

Mattilda, I am glad I am not the only one with this problem, sorry to hear your lady is not with us any more.
 
Maybe get someone in as others have said. Or you could try something which I am going to start after this morning's fun and games.

The boy wonder broke a lunge line today (someone had knotted it, in fairness) and buggered off after one of the cats.

Thank God he can't climb trees.....yet.

As suggested by Finnish Lapphund on here, I am going to incorporate rag training with non-chasing training. Now that he is taking the rag (which is on a line that I move around, like a prey animal) and shaking it, I will start to control when he gets to be allowed to chase it and grab it. IE - I tell him when he can play with the rag (chase cats) and when he can't. Which is never, for the cats, obviously....

Maybe FL can explain it better!
 
Gypsy cob, I know he can get shot, which is why I was so scared, and if I had known the sheep were there he would have been on a lead, and I did put him on as soon as we got him back!
 
I suggest keeping him on the lead, and not thinking this is all about 'respect', that's humanising him imo, he's a dog, try to remember he's not doing it to annoy you. you need to teach him to ignore distractions, if you have a friend who can be your distraction while you being with him on the lead to begin with, do the recall, and only when he can do this 100% in a controlled situation consider letting him off in a field with sheep (which tbh I don't think you should have any dog off a lead with sheep in a field, particularly a young one, particularly at this time of year :S )
In situations like that it's impossible to train tbh, you have to deal with it then look at how to fix it after.
 
It was on a post of mine - she has recommended a couple of great training tips, as has Cala.

I also have to say I agree with the others though - my dogs are not 100% - or even 5% with livestock and so if there are any about, they are on the lead, I also keep on lead anywhere where I don't have a full view, around corners or behind trees.

Seems extreme but til I have them under control, it's not worth the consequences.
 
No, well as I said would not let him off in a field of sheep on purpose! and as you say, especially not at this time of year!
Will go back to trying to practice recall with controlled distractions again (he was getting good at it, especially as other dogs were his main distraction!) My OHs uncle owns a sheep farm where I go at lambing so might take him and whilst on lead, and try to get him to ignore the newest biggest distraction! Cows he is scared of, so they are less of an issue.

And as you say, its a situation to sort only after its happened, as cant really sort before, so I was wondering if any one has any suggestions as to how to do it?

the rag training sounds like a good idea if anyone could explain?
 
So I have a rag on an old lead and I trail it along the ground like it is a cat or something.

The dog chases it, grabs it and plays with it (this is something I need and want him to do as part of very basic shutzhund training) but when I tell him to leave it, he has to come off it immediately, return to me and sit.

So translate that to RL - he sees cat running along the ground, and I tell him to leave it, then he should leave it. In theory.

I think taking him to the sheep farm on a lead would also be a good idea - as Severn Miles mentioned on the leccy collar post - lots of farmers will put puppies in with their biggest, baddest ram to frighten them out of chasing sheep. Is this an option?
 
[ QUOTE ]
tbh I think you need to get some training help, your posts on here are often about him doing something and I think you may be getting frustrated with him un necessarily and it may be your training techniques the issue.
He is also still young, so don't expect too much of him.

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I think the amount of frustated posts on here are to be expected as he is a pup, and with him being lucys first dog, is it not better to ask peoples advice (like lucy is doing) than just try to deal with it ones self??
 
h_H, thank you that sounds like a good idea,
He will leave things on the ground like bottles, or just any poop etc, if I say leave he will generally do it!

Also, I might be able to put him with a ram, but depends if they are out with the ewes still...... not sure, will check this weekend when I go see them!
The thing is he is not a nasty dog, he is just overly........ enthusiastic when it comes to playing with other animals which move!!! hehe

but I defo think I will try the rag toy thing
 
Same as mine, will leave a stationary object or food, but when something moves, wheeeee!

I have pretty much sorted his dog aggression using a lot of tips and help from this forum (whereas a lot of people in RL wrote him off and said he couldn't be helped) so I am hoping he will adapt well to this training method.

Good luck, don't get too flustered (I know how hard it can be, just take deep breaths, we have all had to go right back to basics!)

I don't think my dogs are nasty, either, they have a very strong inbuilt prey drive and it is up to me to manage and train them so that they work with me and do not become a menace to society
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Yup ours sound very similar in that aspect then!! so if the rag is working for yours might as well give it a go!

Beau has never had dog aggression more dog adoration! he just runs up to dogs and lies like a big puff and goes LOVE ME PLEASE!!!!!! hehe

I am getting much better at reducing the fluster, I love him to pieces but he is still a child so knows the buttons to press!

Ye, beau is from 2 working lines so his drive for the sheep is surely strong, but he does not want to leave me either so its not 100% terrible! but will just have to keep working with him! thank you for your advice with the rag though, defo gonna try to make one!
 
I have a 9months old GSD pup and although she is improving she will still chase things and ignore me. She is never let off the long line apart from in a fenced field with no stock in it. Tbh I would never have a dog off lead if there are sheep in sight, better to be safe than sorry as they don't actually have to be chasing sheep to be shot.
I would definitely give the rag a try, and as you say, he is only a baby so give him time and if necessary go back a few stages with his training.
 
You just don't make any sense.............You say you didn't know there were sheep in the field but in your OP you say.....
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Its a field with sheep in, but its HUGE like MASSIVE and its a public footpath through the middle of it and so sheep etc stay WAY away from it, so we went for a lovely off the lead walk.

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Which sounds to me like you did know. Plus I would be VERY surprised at this time of year that if sheep are in a field with a footpath going through it that there wasn't also signs up stating livestock and dogs must be kept on a lead. Go back to the basics and I also suggest you train your dog to a whistle, that way even if you are panicing the whistle blow will sound the same.
 
Ye I am trying to introduce the whistle but he is just not that interested in it, but keep trying hey?!

And no there are no signs up saying livestock in, keep dogs on leads or anything along those lines! as obviously as if it did I would have kept him on his long line!

Yup we are back to basics today, and working on all our manners again!

And also, regarding the sheep, I have been on a number of walks up there are have heard people say there are sheep but never come across any up there myself...... hence why I didnt think there would be an issue, and there wasnt up until he got far enough ahead to see a place that I couldn't, which I accept is my fault for not getting him back to me before he got the first glimpse! I would never purposfully allow my dog to chase sheep, or any other livestock for that matter, hence why I am asking for help!
 
You know I love Beau.....but can you ever really expect to train the herding instinct out of a herding dog? Sounds like an oxymoron to expect a Border Collie to ignore sheep.
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Border Collies just love sheep, and indeed anything that moves. Bess will chase the Canada geese, Widgeon, feral cats and even the fox. It's just natural to her. Moving animals = playtime!

Obviously, we don't want to train her to ignore the livestock as we've bought her primarily to herd our cows. She will, however, come back from the horses (when she tries to sneak over to them) with "her" whistle. We make a certain whistle sound that she knows means "come here" ( or alternatively "OOOOIIIIII LEAVE THEM DAMN HORSES ALONE!"....whichever definition you prefer!
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)

Actually, joking aside, as much as we want her to herd for us, she does understand there are times when we require her to stay close to us and stop the rounding up, hence why we whistle.

Our cows have been in since November and it's now plainly obvious that Bess is "ready" for playtimes again. She is positively itching to get after something, bless her. I'm sure she'll be keen when it's time to send our cows up for milking.

Again, not trying to criticise, but I do understand other people's concerns about the off lead in a field of sheep situation. It's lambing season after all.

The rag idea sounds a good one, if he will play along with that.
 
Yes agree with oher posters, asking borders not to herd is a bit like asking lurchers not to chase rabbits, only borders have brains and lurchers don't so you stand at least a small chance.

And as said before, it's just not worth going off lead if you know there are sheep that can be reached. Not only is it bad for sheep
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but it's bad for the rest of us as there will be calls to keep dogs on leads at ALL times because of incidents caused by a few owners.

I walk in a wonderful 400 acre country park where they move sheep about but there is always acres of space with no sheep. Every year there are photos on the gates of mauled sheep where people have taken their dogs in off lead and there has been talk of banning dogs altogether because of these morons
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PS NOT saying you're a moron
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Ye well being lambing time it means I am not letting him near sheep, especially not off the lead!!!!

I dont expect to train the herding instinct out of him, but as you say I need to get the training to the point of stay with me if I say! (hence why the rag might help if he plays along!)

Got any killer sheep with your cows I can let me try?!
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We don't have any sheep here. I very nearly got some Cade lambs this time, but decided as there's not enough hours in the day as it is, it wouldn't be wise! lol

We do have a couple of very white calves though....would they do?
 
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