OMG my fears were confirmed - horse attacked by 'big cat'

[sallywhoa]

Well it does`nt happen here,we,as a nation are not quite so quick to shoot anything that moves,owning rifles capable of downing a leopard EFFICIENTLY are def not licensed except in exceptional circumstances. Providing it is only the occasional sheep we mostly welcome these fabulous animals,and trigger happy twits would be sorted by our police long before any big cats.

They have been very local `round here for some forty years,and even a friend rolling home from the pub in the early hours on meeting Felix ,just stopped..so did the cat..and then both of them turned heel and kept walking.

I take the same attitude as with my resident country foxes,leave my hens alone..and I`ll leave you alone too.However ,any hens that snuff it are left out in the field for Charlie`s supper.As for Felix,it is exactly the same ,but then very few are even likely to have the privilege of seeing him,let alone taking a pot shot ..thank God!

As for the other poster calling me,of all people ,a bunny hugging townee is a huge huge joke..I am in fact a rampent field sport addict and have been on EVERY one of the Marches against the Hunting Act.And ,by the way,never have lived even with close neighbours....middle of nowhere is just fine.It does not mean you want to kill everything though,in fact hunting /shooting are forms of conservation.

I am not a "trigger-happy twit". When it comes to defending oneself or property/livestock, the police are worthless. If they DO come out, by the time they get there, the damage will be done. I guess its hard for me, living in a different country, to just embrace the concept of being helpless victims as acceptable. I am no gun-toting vigilante, but I have had to shoot stray dogs that were killing my sheep. Whats the alternative? Dead sheep. The police do nothing, the owners do nothing...

I guess people have different notions of "beauty". If I lived in the UK, and my horse came in from the pasture looking like the OP's horse, I wouldn't think the creature that did it was "beautiful" or noble any more than if it was a person that slashed the animal.

I agree with you that if the predator is leaving your animals alone, it should be left alone. But that doesn't seem to be the case in this instance. Whats the answer? If its to do nothing, then it would be much more humane to put the horse down NOW than to allow its throat torn out or die from a slow infection from its wounds.

As far as rifles capable of killing a big cat, it doesn't take much. They aren't very tough animals compared to predators like a bear or a wolf. ( African lions are different, as are leopards, I am referring to the puma/lynx/bobcat/panther size) Their lungs and heart are small and even the slightest injury to either can be fatal.

I'm really not trying to pick a fight, just trying to figure out why people think its acceptable for livestock to be sacrificed so cruelly to a feral, non-native predator? They are native here and cause alot of problems, not something to passed off as no big deal. It was a big deal to that horse.

 

[natalia]

If you do your research one was actually hit by a bus a couple of years ago. Th army turned up and removed its body and it became classified! I think even when out hunting its perfectly possible, you don't hunt the whole country after all and big cats are masters of laying low, they would probably go up a tree and hide till everyone went past. They also move near silently and I can imagine that most hounds if they ran in to them would go in the opposite direction! my theory is if we couldn't find Raul Moat who was a fat geordie in a tent in our country side for three days what chance do we stand against finding a big cat who really won't want to be found?!

 

[cindars]

Our chap from the SussexBig Cat group is still walking the area every so often and leaves a card on the signpost.

 

[EAST KENT]

If you do your research one was actually hit by a bus a couple of years ago. Th army turned up and removed its body and it became classified! I think even when out hunting its perfectly possible, you don't hunt the whole country after all and big cats are masters of laying low, they would probably go up a tree and hide till everyone went past. They also move near silently and I can imagine that most hounds if they ran in to them would go in the opposite direction! my theory is if we couldn't find Raul Moat who was a fat geordie in a tent in our country side for three days what chance do we stand against finding a big cat who really won't want to be found?!

Oh that`s interesting,wherabouts did one cop it with a bus? Guns in this country are not normally held by ordinary people,a very good reason would have to be given for a decent caliber weapon to be licensed.In this country you are not even allowed to beat up a burgler,or even someone threatening you.That is the way it is.We are far too crowded an island for issue of firearms with long ranges,remembering that even beyond it`s accurate range a bullet keeps on travelling,and capable of killing anyone in it`s way.

Here,a guy had a pretty long jail term for firing off a shotgun vaguely at two burglers in his isolated home a few years back.As the burglers had travelled 60 miles to do the job and were multiple offenders you`d have thought it would be ok for him..but no it was not.We are also not allowed to leave a guard dog loose,even within a compound fence,without it`s handler there at all times.The law here seems always on the side of the offender,but that is the way it is.
These black leopards are non confrontational to humans,have`nt caused any offence to anything except the occasional farm animal,in fact are very rarely even seen.I keep horses,sheep and mini pigs in an area which is a very "hot spot" for these cats,and no trouble at all.The farmers `round here are just interested on seeing one,but certainly I have never met anyone wishing these cats any harm whatsoever..in fact I do believe they would be extremely annoyed if any hot head tried to interfere with "their" big cat.

I can well remember wanting to go riding in Ontario once,and it was absolutely forbidden as it was "deer shooting week" in the forests and very dangerous for anyone with bullets and trigger happy canadians about. Heaven forbid our little country ever gets like that.

 

[natalia]

www.britishbigcats.org but their site appears down at the moment. It I think was a lynx (spotty looking thing with tufty ears ) and was hit somewhere in Scotland. There are a couple of photos of the body but all evidence and reports somehow were "mislaid" after the army warned those at the scene to keep mouths shut. Because these animals "don't exist" officially in britain, any real evidence of them is swept under the carpet rather quickly, this is probably too not only protect them from gun toting trophy hunting maniacs but also to stop public outcry/fear.
oh and this site make for interesting reading- http://bigcatsinbritaintriggercamerablog.blogspot.com/

 

[Panther Hunter]

FAO Sallywhoa

In your post you describe having indeginous big cats as being infested and then a plague. You go on to say that you have no trouble in shooting them and then being quiet about this fact.

Remember the moutain lions/cougars/pumas where there before you where. In actual fact it is humans who have encroached on their habitat and hence thats why they are now more widely seen.

But hey, they are a nusiance to us and lets shoot them, doesn't matter if another species is made extinct because there existence isn't convenient. Lynx were once indeginous in Britian as well and there has long been talk of re introducing them.

Maybe people should learn to share our planet with all creatures. Having a big cat live in your neighbourhood isn't a bad thing? Certainly, not a crreature that was there long before you were.

Sorry for the rant, but it is this attitude which makes my blood boil.

PS I hope the horse has made a full recovery.

 

[Enfys]

Venomous snake...Quite right There are several species of pit viper here so the info tells me, not just the massasauga.

The only poisonous snakes we have go by the common name of the "One Eyed Trouser"

I think thought the real mystery is... 'why on earth every camera pointed at a 'big cat' looses the ability to zoom and focus'?!

My excuse is that it was probably about -20 at the time and I would have been barefoot on the back doorstep. I don't think we have big cats here, but the odd black bear gets lost and wanders down the river and these sit 100' from the house and watch the barns regularly.
We did have the hunters out in Spring as a pack was picking off small dogs in the area. Generally though we don't worry about them anymore than we do foxes, I love hearing them at night although I do wish they wouldn't set every dog within miles off baying back at them.

 

[Montyforever]

I guess people have different notions of "beauty". If I lived in the UK, and my horse came in from the pasture looking like the OP's horse, I wouldn't think the creature that did it was "beautiful" or noble any more than if it was a person that slashed the animal.

Yes, but a predator is just that - by nature! Its in their heads to hunt to survive you cant blame them for trying! Thats like saying if you left your rabbit running around in the garden and a fox killed it that fox is wrong? But its not its just doing whats natural!

A human doesnt have to hunt to eat, they wouldnt be planning to eat your horse to survive. They dont need to hurt your horse, they just do it for fun/a game whatever these sickos do it for!

I personally think the big cats should be left be, if your worried about your horses turn them out in herds with electric fencing or bring them in at night! I think people take it for granted and think theres not any big predators in this country, we used to have wolves at one point to! They are a million times more likely to harm your horse than a lone big cat!

 

[Enfys]

I can well remember wanting to go riding in Ontario once,and it was absolutely forbidden as it was "deer shooting week" in the forests and very dangerous for anyone with bullets and trigger happy canadians about. Heaven forbid our little country ever gets like that.

We aren't as bad as that It is only one week at a time, everybody wears hi viz and it is no hardship to stay out of the woods, I am sure that you would have been mighty fed up if you had gotten shot at, so quite sensible precautions really.

Hunting here is traditional, bit like the jolly old fox hunt in Britain although deer hunting actually puts meat in the freezer Oh, and gun licensing is quite strict, you have to attend a course for the animal you wish to hunt, and you need a permit to shoot a quota of deer, unless you are a poacher of course in which case you shoot anything that moves, as poachers worldwide are wont to do.

You are right about Britain being little though, Ontario is five times greater in area than Great Britain (incidentally about the third most populated island in the world) population of the Province is about 13 million, give or take a few, to the UKs 60 million or so, we have quite a lot of space to go round here, room for everyone.

 

[michelleice]

big cats are supposed to be ones let lose when i the 60's(i think it was) there was a craze of exotic pets in britain where you could buy/own any animal and cats were a favorite, not knowing what they cost to feed they were released into the wild by owners who couldn't afford them and left to breed. that is theory anyways


Ive seen one from the back both dogs were terrified it ran away from us, plenty sheep attacked in Scotland but never heard of a horse.


America i think for shooting is completely different to us in America they are there in massive numbers so are desperate to keep there territory and used to human so will attack as and when they want. British cats are more timid would rather hide and probably only "show" themselves after stalking you to see if your pray.

dont disagree with shooting them if you are attacked in America but dont think they need hunted in UK

 

[kittykatcat]

Hi all, OP here

Ooo i didnt realise this was going to turn in to a debate about hunting them down! For what it's worth, even though i have seen the damage they can do first hand, I wouldnt want to see them hunted down at all. Considering the 'mob culture' we have here, it would be horrendous, probably end up in teenagers murdering normal moggies because they thought it was a larger than average cat. No no no, definately not.

The horse is fully recovered now - fine out in the field, back to his normal scatty self! Had no more scratches appear on any of the horses so fingers crossed its moved on.

It's very interesting to hear how many people have had experiences with big cats!

 

[lialls]

Glad to hear that the horse has made a full recovery

 

[hannah87]

A friends horse was found dead in his field about a month ago - in North Yorkshire, covered in very similar wounds, and no other horse in field with him. The post mortem revealed heart attack with no explanation for the wounds. Sounds very similar

 

[EAST KENT]

I have little doubt that had a horse dropped dead with a heart attack our Felix would not have missed out on a tasty meal.The throat would have been crushed,even if the horse was dying instinct would have made it throttle it just to make sure.When you are next out riding look up into big trees..you may catch a glimpse of a cat resting up there,and it will be your privilege to be another genuine cat spotter.Treasure the experience.I know people who have been ,accidentedly ,within a couple of yards of these cats,not one of them does any more than slowly remove itself from human company.Oh.one spat at a cowman ,it was sunning itself just the other side of a water trough he was checking..so by mutual agreement he backed off..and the cat got up and left.

 

[sallywhoa]

FAO Sallywhoa

In your post you describe having indeginous big cats as being infested and then a plague. You go on to say that you have no trouble in shooting them and then being quiet about this fact.

Remember the moutain lions/cougars/pumas where there before you where. In actual fact it is humans who have encroached on their habitat and hence thats why they are now more widely seen.

But hey, they are a nusiance to us and lets shoot them, doesn't matter if another species is made extinct because there existence isn't convenient. Lynx were once indeginous in Britian as well and there has long been talk of re introducing them.

Maybe people should learn to share our planet with all creatures. Having a big cat live in your neighbourhood isn't a bad thing? Certainly, not a crreature that was there long before you were.

Sorry for the rant, but it is this attitude which makes my blood boil.

PS I hope the horse has made a full recovery.

The children weren't allowed out to walk home from the bus stop. Because of the large numbers of cats. What are your children worth? Nowhere did I say we should exterminate or seek them out for slaughter. Read my post again. My point is that if you see a calf or one of your horses being attacked, you should have the right to defend your property. I guess I am fighting a losing battle trying to discuss this with people who have given up all rights to defend themselves. They are nature, but so are we. So are our animals we bring with us.

Encroachment is a common theme in nature as well as an inevitable one. We aren't the only ones who do it. The numbers of large cats in NA is thriving, in spite of "human" encroachment. There are even grizzly bears coming back into my part of the country, as well as moose. Wolverines have never been gone, they are just under the radar and they are BAD characters. Not to mention a massive elk/wapiti take-over that is driving the poor mule deer to havoc. Over the last 10,000 years, we've even got evidence of encroachment of TREES, Utah juniper, which originated in New Mexico. The most prominent portion of our eco-system in the west, the Sagebrush - came over to North America in the fur of animals in the last ice age. Now it owns the place, and has split into 20 some odd sub-species. Plants, animals... heck, soils and watersheds encroach all the time.

So we will have to agree to disagree. Sorry my "attitude" makes you upset, but there are those of us who actually live with these animals day to day, and those who make all their scientific/ethical/moral conclusions from nature programs.

 

[sallywhoa]

Hi all, OP here

Ooo i didnt realise this was going to turn in to a debate about hunting them down! For what it's worth, even though i have seen the damage they can do first hand, I wouldnt want to see them hunted down at all. Considering the 'mob culture' we have here, it would be horrendous, probably end up in teenagers murdering normal moggies because they thought it was a larger than average cat. No no no, definately not.

The horse is fully recovered now - fine out in the field, back to his normal scatty self! Had no more scratches appear on any of the horses so fingers crossed its moved on.

It's very interesting to hear how many people have had experiences with big cats!

I'm glad to hear the horse is doing well! He's gotta be traumatized, poor boy. I apologize if anyone is upset for my take on the discussion. What happened to your horse is pretty common around here, and guess I upset folks that we have a different attitude about it in the rural areas. I really don't mean to do that...

Anyways, here's good vibes for your horse's long happy life. He's going to have some wicked cool scars to try to impress the other horses with! :

 

[ridersince2002]

IM COMPLETELY FREAKED OUT NOW!!!
Read the thread and googles 'big cats in surrey' (i live in surrey) and apparently theres a puma in surrey !! And when i was out walking up to see the horses out at grazing (we put 2 out for the summer, then a different 2 out for the winter, and rotate it every year) i thought i saw a huge black cat in the shaddows in the woods, and my dog, who is normally as quiet as anything, went mad, barking and jumping and i had to pick her up to get through the wooded part of the track. I thought i was seeing things and it was just a coincidence that my dog went crazy, as i didnt know anything about big cats in our area, but now i think i might have seen the puma I COULD'VE BEEN EATED hehee but id rather i got eaten than the horses.


Just looked at the webpage again, apparently the big cats arent much of a danger to humans. PHEEEEWW