omg new horse may be eh broken heart broken b4 i know

madalicedj said:
indeed I agree
I certianly felt a differance like seriously it couldnt be not felt and thats saying something
However is it from old fracture or what
If it is it was certianly present before I bought him and whilst vets are human and can miss things its a bit of a worry
the vet called me to say it was ok and only commented verbally about a large bump to rear hind leg when i asked but he didnt note it in vetting just said and i quote "minor cuts and grazes on body and legs. Old splint on right fore. Not vaccinated" That was it. No mention of the large pussy bump on rear right leg the diamater of a 2p say (which is healing nice now) nothing else age taken from passport which i now know was wrong info
just seems very vague for a 5 stage vetting
yes im panicing we all do when it comes to our horses n ponies but i feel i may have cause for concern
im sorry i dont explain as well as needed but im trying here folks
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I'm a bit worried that a lot of your opinion is based on what your yard manager/owner and a physio/chiro says. First off, 20 years experience could just mean they have had 20 years experience of being really stupid around horses, and secondly was the chiro/physio recommended by your vet? Did they speak to, or get you to speak to your vet? if not please only use someone your vet would recommend.

If you are newish to horses its best to stick to qualified people for advice, and to learn as much as you can yourself in order to make an informed choice.

Good luck with everything x
 
I'm confused, apologies if I've missed something. What prompted you to get the chiro out in the 1st place? It sounds like they have made a rather presumptious diagnosis of a fractured pelvis as many horses are asymmetrical behind. Also, the chiro shouldn't even be making that 'diagnosis' it's not their job to do so. Also, how do you know that he's not sustained injury in the 5 weeks you've had him? I find it hard to believe that a vet would miss a fractured pelvis during a vetting! Don't take everything this chiro says as gospel......
 
Did you get permission from your vet before your chiropracter treated your horse, if not they acted illegally. What qualifications does your chiropracter have?

I have known a lot of chiropracters say a horse has had a fractured pelvis, bad fall etc etc, yet on getting further investigations done from vets it turns out to be nothing.

An old injury will only show in a vetting if the horse shows any sign of lameness and the vet investigates the reasons why. Did you get a full vetting report?

Most dealers are decent, and they need to be your first port of call if there is a genuine problem, remember though if you could not see a problem, and your expert friend could not, how on earth do you expect a deal too until the horse shows a problem or fails a vetting. Age is not 100% science and most vets will look at the teeth and check that it is roughly what the passport says. Have you increased the horses work? What level is your riding experience? What work have you done with the horse? What did you tell the dealer and vet you were buying the horse for (as this will affect what type of horse they sold you, and also the type of vetting they perform)?

Hopefully you are worrying unnecessarily but remember, a thread on here could be read by the dealer, and they will ask the same questions before they will happily agree to take the horse back.
 
Normally you have to clear it with a vet if you want a physio or chiro to treat your horse. If the vet knows the horse well they will sometimes say yes over the phone. Did the chiro/physio ask you if you had the vets permission?
 
A horse with all these issues passed a five stage vetting?

If you can't spot pigeon toes, then I wonder what else has escaped you - including the odd pelvis when you tried him. After five weeks, I'd be very unsure you can ask for this horse to be taken back.
 
I think you are panicing slightly because of what supposed experts are telling you, but neither they or you have any concrete proof that there is anything serious wrong with this horse. First of all, I have to say I wouldn't have bought it if the microchip number didn't match the passport number. But you did, so moving on from there, to confirm a fractured pelvis, you need x rays and a secondary vetting. If its a healed former fracture then I don't think you have much of a case if the horse would be likely to come sound with work. You could possibly say that the vet should have recommended you get x rays (did he?). I don't think the dealer is negligent as he couldn't have known this and you used your own expert (your vet). Plus the dealer has offered you a full refund and I don't think its unreasonable in the circumstances not to refund you your costs. Furthermore, you have had the horse quite a while now which complicates matters - he could have been kicked in the field.

I would also say that sometimes chiropracters exaggerate. They will tell you theres this, that and everything wrong with your horse and its terribly worrying but short of turning it out in a field and feeding it carrots sometimes most things are workable with. (its the same with some human chiropractors and physios - they will tell you you're in an awful state and wail about how "tight" you are, then you go and do a triathlon every second week without any problems whatsoever - you take it with a pinch of salt). Its normal for horses which have worked in their lives to have a few lumps and bumps. Some horses need to muscle up and learn to carry themselves and their riders and then improve. If its a cheap horse, he may need work and schooling to come good.

It also depends what you paid - how much was this horse?
 
Ace of Spades said:
I'm confused, apologies if I've missed something. What prompted you to get the chiro out in the 1st place? It sounds like they have made a rather presumptious diagnosis of a fractured pelvis as many horses are asymmetrical behind. Also, the chiro shouldn't even be making that 'diagnosis' it's not their job to do so. Also, how do you know that he's not sustained injury in the 5 weeks you've had him? I find it hard to believe that a vet would miss a fractured pelvis during a vetting! Don't take everything this chiro says as gospel......
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i got him checked as he was stiff The diagnosis wasnt made cause he wasnt asymetrically imperfect but im not experianced to say i may be wrongly describing the ladys qualification also Sorry 3 seperate people I told about the lady knew her work and were not disapproving but of course it needs further investigation. The injury we suspect certianly could not have happened in the 5 wks I may not know much but a fracture would be a bit more than noticable
like i said i just need to get a vet check and see if what was felt is an old hip injury and if it healed correctly or not is it effecting him just now etc
 
toffee44 said:
Something going through my head, have you ridden this horse in new tack? Has a qualified saddler checked the saddle??
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new tack yes dealer claims it was checked and noone whos looked has said its def wrong
Doesnt explain the big sunken bit where his right hip bone should be though but tack def worth further checks always i agree
 
scally said:
Did you get permission from your vet before your chiropracter treated your horse, if not they acted illegally. What qualifications does your chiropracter have?

I have known a lot of chiropracters say a horse has had a fractured pelvis, bad fall etc etc, yet on getting further investigations done from vets it turns out to be nothing.

An old injury will only show in a vetting if the horse shows any sign of lameness and the vet investigates the reasons why. Did you get a full vetting report?

Most dealers are decent, and they need to be your first port of call if there is a genuine problem, remember though if you could not see a problem, and your expert friend could not, how on earth do you expect a deal too until the horse shows a problem or fails a vetting. Age is not 100% science and most vets will look at the teeth and check that it is roughly what the passport says. Have you increased the horses work? What level is your riding experience? What work have you done with the horse? What did you tell the dealer and vet you were buying the horse for (as this will affect what type of horse they sold you, and also the type of vetting they perform)?

Hopefully you are worrying unnecessarily but remember, a thread on here could be read by the dealer, and they will ask the same questions before they will happily agree to take the horse back.
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ok I have ridden since i was 4yrs old I didnt say the dealer should have seen it. Nor did i say vet should have seen age diff on teeth. Nor did I allow any TREATMENT to happen as I wanted vet to look at what they said they suspected Geez people i know i may not be an expert or giving the most clear explanations But can people read and remember bits I do say.
I know you are right about a lot of points but a lot I have already explained and I hope as you say that it proves to be nothing
 
As a buyer, if purchasing from dealer, you are protected by the consumer protection act 2008. This means if the dealer WITHELD important information that would have changed your decision when purchasing the horse you may have comeback.

Firstly try going back to the person you purchased the horse from and explain the situation. If they are genuine, they will give you a refund. If not, you could try your local council's Trading Standards or Police Equine Liason Officer, as you never know, someone else may have made a complaint about them?

There are plenty of decent people/dealers out there that will offer a refund no questions asked, but unfortunately there are others that just want a sale.

You could also try tracing the horses history for a better picture. Give the vet(s) a call on the tet/flu page of your passport and ask them if their client, who owned the horse at the time, could contact you. You may be very surprised at what you uncover! Good luck.
 
Sorry I was trying to do a supportive post to you, but you did not say in any of your posts that the chiro had not treated the horse, in fact your posts reads as though they had. Just becuase you have ridden since you are 4 like me you are a layman and trust experts in the fields to judge, and not all experts are right, it is their opinion at that time. You seem to have missed a lot of answers to questions as some of these answers may through a lot of light on the problems you are having and also any vet will ask the same questions.

The point still remains did the chiro have permission from your vet to even look at the horse, which is where all your problems and assumptions stem from?
 
First of all I'm so sorry that you've had all this to deal with, when you should be bonding with your horse and enjoying settling in with one another.
My advice would be to do exactly what you are doing, get another vet to have a look and if deemed necessary have the pelvis x-rayed.
If there is evidence of an old injury it may mean your horse is more likely to develop arthritic problems in those area's (this doesn't necessarily mean you should get rid)
One thing I wasn't sure of was the length of time you have had your horse for is it less than a month? Apologies if you said it in earlier post, I'm getting tired.
 
Mithras said:
I think you are panicing slightly because of what supposed experts are telling you, but neither they or you have any concrete proof that there is anything serious wrong with this horse. First of all, I have to say I wouldn't have bought it if the microchip number didn't match the passport number. But you did, so moving on from there, to confirm a fractured pelvis, you need x rays and a secondary vetting. If its a healed former fracture then I don't think you have much of a case if the horse would be likely to come sound with work. You could possibly say that the vet should have recommended you get x rays (did he?). I don't think the dealer is negligent as he couldn't have known this and you used your own expert (your vet). Plus the dealer has offered you a full refund and I don't think its unreasonable in the circumstances not to refund you your costs. Furthermore, you have had the horse quite a while now which complicates matters - he could have been kicked in the field.

I would also say that sometimes chiropracters exaggerate. They will tell you theres this, that and everything wrong with your horse and its terribly worrying but short of turning it out in a field and feeding it carrots sometimes most things are workable with. (its the same with some human chiropractors and physios - they will tell you you're in an awful state and wail about how "tight" you are, then you go and do a triathlon every second week without any problems whatsoever - you take it with a pinch of salt). Its normal for horses which have worked in their lives to have a few lumps and bumps. Some horses need to muscle up and learn to carry themselves and their riders and then improve. If its a cheap horse, he may need work and schooling to come good.

It also depends what you paid - how much was this horse?
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not much £3500
i was unclear in posts its not that his passport no was different from one vet scanned its that there wasnt one on passport full stop it was the number that came up when vet scanned him (not my vet who did vetting it was poss dealers)
when i checked microchip his true details came up matches description but age is different In 2003 his irish passport was issued pretty much when he arrived in ireland
The irish passport says hes born 2003 no details of sire etc However when you check microchip no hes born newmarket 2001 can was sent to ireland in 2003 when he covered a mare which produced a brown colt. Funny thats when irish passport says he was born not covering a mare.
Suspisious perhaps he had a fall or something and whoever decided to reborn him as it were. who knows And incase any1 asks as hes a registered thoroughbred it had to be registered when he covered a mare which is why weatherbys know he went to ireland in 2003.
Ps your advise is good I am poss panicing over other people unfounded advise trust me things have just been looking a little bit more iffy as time goes on
 
Sorry to hear about your horse probs :( but this is exactly why if I like a horse after first view I always take knowledgeable friend/instructor to view horse a second time as if they don't like general confo, teeth etc they won't ride horse and I won't get it vetted/buy. Also always use my yards vet. He's failed almost every horse I've had vetted (dealer claims horse is 12 vet says horse is 16 or owner claims that odd hind leg action is nothing vet says old cart pulling injury and horse is not fit for what I want vetting stops and I move on regardless of how perfectly gorgeous the horse is) This is probably why I have yet to buy a horse. But I trust his and friends judgement 100% even if it means that I'm horseless for ever :rolleyes:
 
madalicedj said:
ok I have ridden since i was 4yrs old I didnt say the dealer should have seen it. Nor did i say vet should have seen age diff on teeth. Nor did I allow any TREATMENT to happen as I wanted vet to look at what they said they suspected Geez people i know i may not be an expert or giving the most clear explanations But can people read and remember bits I do say.
I know you are right about a lot of points but a lot I have already explained and I hope as you say that it proves to be nothing
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Just wrote long reply and my stupid computer deleted it. Basically I think people are giving you a tough time, I think you are oding the right thing. Get a second opinion from another vet and if necessary x-ray. Good luck and keep us posted
 
Mithras said:
I think you are panicing slightly because of what supposed experts are telling you, but neither they or you have any concrete proof that there is anything serious wrong with this horse. First of all, I have to say I wouldn't have bought it if the microchip number didn't match the passport number. But you did, so moving on from there, to confirm a fractured pelvis, you need x rays and a secondary vetting. If its a healed former fracture then I don't think you have much of a case if the horse would be likely to come sound with work. You could possibly say that the vet should have recommended you get x rays (did he?). I don't think the dealer is negligent as he couldn't have known this and you used your own expert (your vet). Plus the dealer has offered you a full refund and I don't think its unreasonable in the circumstances not to refund you your costs. Furthermore, you have had the horse quite a while now which complicates matters - he could have been kicked in the field.

I would also say that sometimes chiropracters exaggerate. They will tell you theres this, that and everything wrong with your horse and its terribly worrying but short of turning it out in a field and feeding it carrots sometimes most things are workable with. (its the same with some human chiropractors and physios - they will tell you you're in an awful state and wail about how "tight" you are, then you go and do a triathlon every second week without any problems whatsoever - you take it with a pinch of salt). Its normal for horses which have worked in their lives to have a few lumps and bumps. Some horses need to muscle up and learn to carry themselves and their riders and then improve. If its a cheap horse, he may need work and schooling to come good.

It also depends what you paid - how much was this horse?
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i didnt pay a massive amount £3500

I didnt explain clearly Its not that microchip numbers didnt match There wasnt one in the 1st place on passport when i traced the number to weatherbys he matched description and as a throughbred it was registered when he covered a mare, in wait for it. 2003 in ireland. Guess when his irish passport starts. 2003 not as a duplicate but saying hes just born. No its not th ecolt produced as it was a brown and he matches all descriptions.
Yes ur right i am panicing at unfounded what ifs so far but as things stand its doents look the best. Perhaps he did injur himself them and thats why they gave him new identity who knows

the vet didnt recomment x-ray and was vet dealer contacted NOT mine Im getting my vet out now I didnt have 1 before because i didnt have a horse
 
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brighteyes said:
A horse with all these issues passed a five stage vetting?
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I know more often than not vets can be reluctant to pass five stage vettings. Also if they know the horse and the owner you are buying from they usually won't do the vetting (in my experiance anyway), and reccomend you use a different vet.
 
messenger said:
As a buyer, if purchasing from dealer, you are protected by the consumer protection act 2008. This means if the dealer WITHELD important information that would have changed your decision when purchasing the horse you may have comeback.

Firstly try going back to the person you purchased the horse from and explain the situation. If they are genuine, they will give you a refund. If not, you could try your local council's Trading Standards or Police Equine Liason Officer, as you never know, someone else may have made a complaint about them?

There are plenty of decent people/dealers out there that will offer a refund no questions asked, but unfortunately there are others that just want a sale.

You could also try tracing the horses history for a better picture. Give the vet(s) a call on the tet/flu page of your passport and ask them if their client, who owned the horse at the time, could contact you. You may be very surprised at what you uncover! Good luck.
Click to expand...


thanks some useful advise on tracing info there I hope i dont have to return him but im backed quite well legally. I hate how useless passports are in so many ways and how horses can be abused so often with no way of finding out their past
 
A few points ( I haven't read full
post as can't be arsed)
• did you have a full vetting? If there is a suspected broken / fractured pelvis is will normally show as being slightly asemetric. A decent vet will note this and it should be on the vets cert.
• have you do anything that could lame the horse is the time you have had it, this includes lunging as if it's a bit weak this could well make it sore and unlevel.
• if dealer has offered money back what have you said? Hanging on to the horse is not in your favour. ESP if your still working it.
• a vetting is only valid the day you bought the horse and is a snapshot of the horse on the day, what one vet passes another won't. Your first step would be to get bloods tested for bute. If you can't prove this then really you have very little to stand on.
• opinions on horses are only one persons opinion. Just because a chiropractor says the horse isn't right won't mean it is. To be able to have any sort of strong case you need a full vets referal and reports, possibly a xomplete lameness work up.
 
Mithras said:
I think you are panicing slightly because of what supposed experts are telling you, but neither they or you have any concrete proof that there is anything serious wrong with this horse. First of all, I have to say I wouldn't have bought it if the microchip number didn't match the passport number. But you did, so moving on from there, to confirm a fractured pelvis, you need x rays and a secondary vetting. If its a healed former fracture then I don't think you have much of a case if the horse would be likely to come sound with work. You could possibly say that the vet should have recommended you get x rays (did he?). I don't think the dealer is negligent as he couldn't have known this and you used your own expert (your vet). Plus the dealer has offered you a full refund and I don't think its unreasonable in the circumstances not to refund you your costs. Furthermore, you have had the horse quite a while now which complicates matters - he could have been kicked in the field.

I would also say that sometimes chiropracters exaggerate. They will tell you theres this, that and everything wrong with your horse and its terribly worrying but short of turning it out in a field and feeding it carrots sometimes most things are workable with. (its the same with some human chiropractors and physios - they will tell you you're in an awful state and wail about how "tight" you are, then you go and do a triathlon every second week without any problems whatsoever - you take it with a pinch of salt). Its normal for horses which have worked in their lives to have a few lumps and bumps. Some horses need to muscle up and learn to carry themselves and their riders and then improve. If its a cheap horse, he may need work and schooling to come good.

It also depends what you paid - how much was this horse?
Click to expand...

True but if something was felt on palpation as well as him being visually unsound there may be something more, I treat humans and at least they can speak. So you can ask them the history of said complaint, without being able to speak to a horse it makes it difficult.
If you do get x-ray and it comes back NAD (no abnormality detected) I'd say you should get a soft tissue specialist to help out, may just be a muscle imbalance as mithras says.
 
scally said:
Sorry I was trying to do a supportive post to you, but you did not say in any of your posts that the chiro had not treated the horse, in fact your posts reads as though they had. Just becuase you have ridden since you are 4 like me you are a layman and trust experts in the fields to judge, and not all experts are right, it is their opinion at that time. You seem to have missed a lot of answers to questions as some of these answers may through a lot of light on the problems you are having and also any vet will ask the same questions.

The point still remains did the chiro have permission from your vet to even look at the horse, which is where all your problems and assumptions stem from?
Click to expand...

sorry if i came across snappy Im not great on here i havent posted b4 I think im replying right now but i see a few i got wrong and reply comes up underneth etc .
no i got lady out to check him and after she told me what she suspected she agreed and encoraged me not to have any treatment until a vet checked him 1st i thought he just may have tight muscles from beingout of work etc
sure i have ridden since 4 but i took full vetting and horsey pal with me because i am not a know all by far and i wanted trusted advise but even that isnt always enough
 
Elliep25 said:
First of all I'm so sorry that you've had all this to deal with, when you should be bonding with your horse and enjoying settling in with one another.
My advice would be to do exactly what you are doing, get another vet to have a look and if deemed necessary have the pelvis x-rayed.
If there is evidence of an old injury it may mean your horse is more likely to develop arthritic problems in those area's (this doesn't necessarily mean you should get rid)
One thing I wasn't sure of was the length of time you have had your horse for is it less than a month? Apologies if you said it in earlier post, I'm getting tired.
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hi thanks for reply im just over month but its ok if it is bad i know im covered by a number of different routes
sad thing and why im worried is ive totally bonded with him i dont want anything to spoil it hes such a sweety
 
Jake10 said:
Sorry to hear about your horse probs :( but this is exactly why if I like a horse after first view I always take knowledgeable friend/instructor to view horse a second time as if they don't like general confo, teeth etc they won't ride horse and I won't get it vetted/buy. Also always use my yards vet. He's failed almost every horse I've had vetted (dealer claims horse is 12 vet says horse is 16 or owner claims that odd hind leg action is nothing vet says old cart pulling injury and horse is not fit for what I want vetting stops and I move on regardless of how perfectly gorgeous the horse is) This is probably why I have yet to buy a horse. But I trust his and friends judgement 100% even if it means that I'm horseless for ever :rolleyes:
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its hard finding the right one but i hope you do in the end Hence why im so paniced i found him and now im terrified he may have a prob eek
 
Elliep25 said:
Just wrote long reply and my stupid computer deleted it. Basically I think people are giving you a tough time, I think you are oding the right thing. Get a second opinion from another vet and if necessary x-ray. Good luck and keep us posted
Click to expand...

I think most people are being supportive, and offering advice and sharing experiances. Sometimes this can come across as harsh, but its no good and no help if people only say what you want to hear.

The main thing is that the op knows there is a problem and is now trying to sort it. You obviously care about your horse otherwise you wouldn't be so concerned and ask for help in the first place.

I hope it all gets sorted soon. Good luck
 
Elliep25 said:
Just wrote long reply and my stupid computer deleted it. Basically I think people are giving you a tough time, I think you are oding the right thing. Get a second opinion from another vet and if necessary x-ray. Good luck and keep us posted
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thank you ive had two long replies deleted also . And I agree Im getting it a bit tight :o Fingers and toes crossed vet gets out tomorrow or sat and all is well Then you can all slag me for panicing over nothing b:)ut hey we love our four legged friends more than a bit right?
 
cider loving mare said:
I think most people are being supportive, and offering advice and sharing experiances. Sometimes this can come across as harsh, but its no good and no help if people only say what you want to hear.

The main thing is that the op knows there is a problem and is now trying to sort it. You obviously care about your horse otherwise you wouldn't be so concerned and ask for help in the first place.

I hope it all gets sorted soon. Good luck
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thank you i know im getting hysterical but well i love him hes so sweet n calm n my pal
 
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