OMG!

glenruby, i've been bitten on the breast twice by other people's youngsters, bloody painful! my fault for assuming they were as polite as my babies, i reckon. i never keep treats up there, mine are always in low pockets, and my horses can nuzzle for them politely but no more.
in one of Monty's books he talks about arranging an enclosure system for a particularly savage TB stallion in the States, whereby it was treated like a tiger or something, never had human contact, could be carefully partitioned off and excluded while mucked out etc. i felt very sorry for any mare put in with The Beast... surely a horse like that should never be bred from even if it runs like a cheetah?
 
I was attacked by a stallion riding past the field he was out in during the summer - the same stallion I'd regularly ridden past for 4 years with no issues. He got my leg and ragged it like a dog, and I'm permanently scarred now, bleeding through the leather cuff/top of dubarry boots and jodphurs. (path was too narrow to get right out of reach, I had to resort to hitting him with my crop on the face to keep him away - something I wouldn't normally dream of doing, he actually broke the top rail coming at me but didn't come through/over as we kept moving so he moved away from the broken bit to stay alongside and lunge at me again)

Owners don't believe he did it, and think I must have done something to him. I hadn't. He's just not being kept in a suitable place and possibly something happened before I arrived - I don't know.

I've owned and handled my own entires for years, have never previously known this one to be anything other than a nice chap. It's an eye opener I can tell you.
 
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hmm, i agree that a stallion should not look like a gelding, but i honestly think he should behave like one in the manners department. bright and lively yes, having 'that certain something' yes, rampaging/would-be-dominant loony no...
i've been in the stable with a few absolutely top performance stallions and they were very civilised. no problems with potency either...
a friend groomed at Bokelo (i think it was) years ago and her charge was partitioned next to Mayhill on the way over, she said he was as civilised as a gelding. i think there was a mare aboard too. nothing wrong with his performance record or potency afaik.
imho that's how they should be (but then, i'm not surrounded by professional horse handlers so i've always been aware that anything i compete also needs to be a civilised kind of horse that a muppet can lead around if necessary...)
if i was told i could have the most amazing horse ever but it would always be a total nightmare to handle, i don't think i'd dare go for it... but i can understand Pros that would.

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But that's not behaving like a gelding, that's behaving like a horse with manners.
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I know all sorts of stallion that show, live, interact and generally coexist successfully and safely with the rest of the horse and human population. I'd agree this is a very desirable trait. BUT I'd have to say one of the major common factors would be that the horses have been raised by people who educate them well but never forget what they are. They don't take chances with them or let them get into situations where they might be tempted to act inappropriately and they manage them properly from puberty onwards, so the horses never learn any other way.

Even then, it can go wrong - I saw an episode where a lovely sj stallion was handled for an exhibition by a good 4* rider . . . who showed up wearing perfume!!! The horse was handed over by his regular rider (she had ridden him many times at home and he had another one to show) and within a minute he was on his hind legs, huffing for all he was worth, in a ring full of other stallions, who were starting to light up like Christmas trees. She didn't have a clue what to do. The regular rider jumped off his other horse, tossed his reins to a groom and ran faster than I would have thought him capable of across the ring to grab the other horse, growling at his as he went. Crisis averted. I saw another situation where a Olympic level sj stallion's regular rider tried to handle the horse at a stallion exhibition on the ground and the first thing the horse did when he disciplined it was stand up and take a pop at him. Along came his usual breeding station handler and (after a short private chat outside) he was back looking like butter wouldn't melt. I handled one for a vetting one day that had been a good YR event horse but wouldn't trot on all four legs that day at the vet college because they wanted him to do it near where the phantom lived. These were all horses that went to shows, lived in temp stabling, flew, hacked etc with other horses. But they never forgot what they were and it only took a second for the people around them to drop the ball. So to speak.
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My point is that even though they might act like people think geldings act (which is debatable - I know some awful geldings) it's not about hormones, it's about handling. I will say though, there are some stallions that never cope with "regular" living and I'd agree, they're probably not suitable to be riding horse sires. That said, how would people know? These days very few people see the sires they breed to, or if the see them in the flesh it's under very careful management. I know at least one stallion with an Olympic medal who is a complete loony.
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What a horrific story. Perhaps the key lies in the fact that the man was going in with feed...many horses, never mind testosterone filled stallions are aggressive around feed and forget their manners. Perhaps it started when the stallion lunged for the food, the man tried to avert him until he put it in a suitable place and the stallion treated the man like a competitor for the food...

TarrSteps - interesting and fascinating that the St Simon male line temperament is still so prevalent (that makes me sound as though I'm about 120 years old!).
 
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