On full livery and suddenly told my horse has to drink from automatic water feeder not bucket

[Tiddlypom]

Some former near neighbours used to have a small livery yard. A newly arrived livery went to empty and rinse out her horse’s water bucket, as you do, prior to refilling it with fresh water. The yard owner rushed across the yard screeching like a banshee and ordering her to stop - water was on a meter and water buckets must only be topped up, never emptied and cleaned out .

Both the new livery and an existing one, who witnessed the scene and was the one to tell me about it later, soon moved off to other yards.

 

[Gingerwitch]

no the horse is all good. And the smell is not horrid. Feel free to ask I would have informed you which way it was.
He would never be left with it like that which is why I’m up there every day checking and sorting it out when it should have been done by those he’s left in care of.

Your first post quite clearly states that their has been crap in his drinker since the first week those were your words so it is an obvious conclusion to draw that either the crap has been left in it. so now your saying that your horse craps in the drinker when he is in the stable each day. If this is the case it's not the lazy staff at fault because how do you know that your water was clean when done and pony craps in it after stables done and checked and surley you could have tied a heavy duty plastic bag on it so if pony craps on it it's an easy fix. It's bad enough cleaning crap out of an auto waterer when it's your own once in a blue moon, but to have to do this daily is another story

 

[Riding2020]

It always amazes me that people who work with horses don't seem to like them much.
I used to work on a lot of yards, and we were always fond of our horses, even the naughty/crazy ones. We (the yard staff) used to buy our charges little treats, and spend time smooching them. In fact, we were often asked to catch horses for their owners...they would come to us.

Just leave politely having paid your dues, OP - in a yard like that nothing you say will make any difference.

the months notice is approx £500-600 for the months full livery.

to leave early to not trust my horse is of importance or his care whilst filling their pockets with that amount money is hard one to swallow. When I feel they’re not keeping their side of the bargain.

going to re look over the paperwork agreement this evening and see where I stand. As I have photo evidence of every time going there and the situation

 

[Gingerwitch]

the months notice is approx £500-600 for the months full livery.

to leave early to not trust my horse is of importance or his care whilst filling their pockets with that amount money is hard one to swallow. When I feel they’re not keeping their side of the bargain.

going to re look over the paperwork agreement this evening and see where I stand. As I have photo evidence of every time going there and the situation[/QUOTE
And what cost is your reputation or a colic surgery. Just pay up and move on, it's not worth the time it energy. I have just "lost" circa £1700 because I left a yard that banned full liveries from visiting it allowed d iy to visit twice a day, hack out and even bath horses at the same time. My reputation is in tack they have even asked me to go back but I chose to leave a month early with 3, and u will not stoop to their petty level my horses health and welfare far surpass the monetary value involved. You cannot buy your good repute and in my world this is everything, just pay up and move on

 

[Riding2020]

Pay for a months future livery when they have already shown they have no regard for agreements made and delivering basic water needs for the horse whilst changing rules.

The horses care is of importance that is why I’m moving him.

filling other people’s pockets in fear they may broadcast I walked.

I’m not in fear of relaying the reasons why. In my eyes if your not being delivered a service your paying for. And it’s being delivered to the detriment of a living being. You do not expect payment for future services not even taken up. Especially future payment when left already. And paid up until been there.

I’m honest in my day job to never offer what’s not actually the case. Changing the rules half way through. I’d be throughly embarrassed.

your daft if you would accept it

 

[Gingerwitch]

Pay for a months future livery when they have already shown they have no regard for agreements made and delivering basic water needs for the horse whilst changing rules.

The horses care is of importance that is why I’m moving him.

filling other people’s pockets in fear they may broadcast I walked. Though I doubt they would like me to broadcast why I am walking

I’m not in fear of relaying the reasons why. In my eyes if your not being delivered a service your paying for. And it’s being delivered to the detriment of a living being. You do not expect payment. Especially future payment when left already. And paid up until been there for not a total service received.
I’m honest in my day job to never offer what’s not actually the case. Changing the rules half way through. I’d be throughly embarrassed.

your daft if you would accept it

And your doing exactly the same. All you want is confirmation that you are okay to flouce off the yard break the contract yourself and get the support off random unidentified folk on a forum. Well sorry if it offends and you are more than entitled to vote with your feet contracts work both ways. You cannot prove when your horse craps in the drinker so who is to say this is neglect. You dont like the yard I get it, you dont like the staff, I get it. But pay your dues and move. There is no way on god's great earth I would give notice on a full livery yard and leave my horse in their care unless it was for a relocation. I value my horse way more than a few quid.

 

[Bob notacob]

I have an automatic drinker in my stable .Wonderful gadget. Mike pulls out the bung every day and fills my bucket.It takes him the time to the muckheap with the barrow and back to fill .Great as long as he doesnt get distracted.

 

[[131452]]

Sadly getting a sub standard service on full livery isn't that unusual in my experience. But I would honestly look for somewhere else. Like you say you pay a lot of money and in return they won't enable your horse to drink let alone clean out the automatic drinker. Teenage girls with no interpersonal skills seems to be pretty normal for yard staff and something that also winds me up. But I would seriously be looking elsewhere. Particularly after being shouted at by staff.

 

[[131452]]

Sorry hadnt read all the comments. I'm glad you're leaving but I'd be the bigger person and pay for the month's notice and actually stay for the notice period. A lot of yards rely on you paying for notice but leaving straight away so they actually get an extra month for no work in return. I had this at my last yard , where I said I was giving notice that would take me to say 08 March. She asked when I was actually leaving and I said 8th of March and her jaw nearly hit the floor. This was also a full livery situation where i still had to to basic things like provide hay and water.
I'm never going full or part livery again if I can help it.

 

[doodle]

From working on a yard viewpoint automatic waterers are brilliant and safe time. They still need cleaned out regularly but so much quicker than buckets when you have a yard to do. That said I would prefer buckets for my own horse so reasons already stated. And if as a full livery you asked for buckets as your horse won’t use the automatic then that should be provided. I do think if there was poo, sludge etc in the waterer or bucket then, even on full livery, you should clean it for the sake of your horse and not leave it there for days. Then go to yo/ym and explain the issue. The attitude of staff is not on and I agree you should be moving. But meantime for the sake of your horse, grumble about it but sort the water situation yourself.

 

[Lois Lame]

But when the young groom in charge of his barn said “oh didn’t realise he was a boy” (gelding) sums it up really. She supposedly cares for him daily?
that’s the close attentive care that’s being given

I wouldn't be concerned about this. Whenever I see a horse I like, I usually duck down and have a look to suss out what's none of my business really, and then I think, why did I do that? That's a nice horse whether it's male, female, queer, trans, gay, lesbian whatever whatever.

... I said I was giving notice that would take me to say 08 March. She asked when I was actually leaving and I said 8th of March and her jaw nearly hit the floor.

Love it.

 

[Riding2020]

I wouldn't be concerned about this. Whenever I see a horse I like, I usually duck down and have a look to suss out what's none of my business really, and then I think, why did I do that? That's a nice horse whether it's male, female, queer, trans, gay, lesbian whatever whatever.

? your funny.

it’s more the fact she should know what he is, Or care to. He’s supposedly in her / their care day in day out

 

[Riding2020]

From working on a yard viewpoint automatic waterers are brilliant and safe time. They still need cleaned out regularly but so much quicker than buckets when you have a yard to do. That said I would prefer buckets for my own horse so reasons already stated. And if as a full livery you asked for buckets as your horse won’t use the automatic then that should be provided. I do think if there was poo, sludge etc in the waterer or bucket then, even on full livery, you should clean it for the sake of your horse and not leave it there for days. Then go to yo/ym and explain the issue. The attitude of staff is not on and I agree you should be moving. But meantime for the sake of your horse, grumble about it but sort the water situation yourself.

Have said I daily go up and refill his water and have now said my grumble on it. It keeps getting repeated but of course I do x
That’s why I’m so cross about the situation.. That he’s left like that for possibly god knows how long until I’m up there the next day. It kills me. stated to the young groom a few times and now YO what his needs are. If I go up tomorrow and it’s the same again I literally will be taking more photos and leaving tomorrow I think as have two other places as possible moves.
thanks for your view on both sides.

 

[Riding2020]

Sorry hadnt read all the comments. I'm glad you're leaving but I'd be the bigger person and pay for the month's notice and actually stay for the notice period. A lot of yards rely on you paying for notice but leaving straight away so they actually get an extra month for no work in return. I had this at my last yard , where I said I was giving notice that would take me to say 08 March. She asked when I was actually leaving and I said 8th of March and her jaw nearly hit the floor. This was also a full livery situation where i still had to to basic things like provide hay and water.
I'm never going full or part livery again if I can help it.

you could be right. But I need to be up there twice a day to check after situation which I can only do once a day and one or two days a week coming up now work won’t allow time for that. If I don’t believe they have his best interests for providing clean water or atleast a bucket as was told he needed upon moving there I don’t know what I can do but find someone freelance to come and do it for me. Will see tomorrow the situation. Ask for the notice period to be wavered for lack of providing his basic water needs to standard or if they won’t waiver notice I ask for photo evidence daily sent to me or his water situation being adequate. They’re being paid around £20 a day is it not much to ask!
but your right, will see what can do.

I agree, the plan is to slowly come off full livery and the dream to go to DIY with odd day assisted. Slowly sorting out work / live situation so can do. There’s nothing like doing it yourself. I cannot wait for that day.

 

[Riding2020]

And your doing exactly the same. All you want is confirmation that you are okay to flouce off the yard break the contract yourself and get the support off random unidentified folk on a forum. Well sorry if it offends and you are more than entitled to vote with your feet contracts work both ways. You cannot prove when your horse craps in the drinker so who is to say this is neglect. You dont like the yard I get it, you dont like the staff, I get it. But pay your dues and move. There is no way on god's great earth I would give notice on a full livery yard and leave my horse in their care unless it was for a relocation. I value my horse way more than a few quid.

To be honest I don’t know if your anything to do with the yard because it doesn’t take a lot of math if your from the area to work it out.

Have I not said the horse is worth more than any money? A few times?!

Have I not said he would leave than be left in their care if this is their behaviour ongoing regarding basic needs when I’m not there to check and sort it out myself constantly.

Neglect is not allowing my horse a bucket of water a day when I stated he only drinks from a bucket when moving there. Saying that now they’ve changed they’re mind and “he has to learn” so basically he will go thirsty or use it. That’s negligent.

Thank you for reminding me contracts work both ways. I’ve had a lawyer look over the contract this evening and I’m well within my right from the photographic evidence of their negligence. You certainly have a bee in your bonnet and must have hit a nerve within you. I’m also just a random folk on here, but thank you for getting so het up on a matter not affecting you. Or is it..

 

[Gingerwitch]

To be honest I don’t know if your anything to do with the yard because it doesn’t take a lot of math if your from the area to work it out. Have I not said the horse is worth more than any money? A few times?! Have I not said he would leave than be left in their care if this is their behaviour ongoing regarding basic needs when I’m not there to check and sort it out myself constantly. Neglect is not allowing my horse a bucket of water a day when I stated he only drinks from a bucket when moving there. Saying that now they’ve changed they’re mind and “he has to learn” so basically he will go thirsty or use it. That’s negligent. Thank you for reminding me contracts work both ways. I’ve had a lawyer look over the contract this evening and I’m well within my right from the photographic evidence of their negligence. You certainly have a bee in your bonnet and must have hit a nerve within you. I’m also just a random folk on here, but thank you for getting so het up on a matter not affecting you. Or is it..

it affects everyone who keeps a horse which is why we horse owners get treated like crap by so many yards. For your information a basic full livery in most areas is circa 600 a month. I have no idea why you now think I am something to do with the yard just because you don't like the opposite view? You don't want to pay your notice, your not going to pay your notice, you don't care about your reputation, your choice. You can't prove the yard does not do the jobs, you assume they don't. So glad you could get a lawyer on a Friday night ? 20 quid a day to keep, feed, bed, turn out, muck out, it's peanuts in real terms. I Get the rude staff but how do you come across to them. Good luck with your move, just be prepared that the word will follow that your not trustworthy in the payment stakes.

 

[[131452]]

If you are unable to check on him daily then for his safety I agree that leaving as soon as possible is the right thing to do. I would suggest discussing it with the yard owner though to try and reach an agreement. Do it by email or text too so you have it in writing. That place doesn't sound very professional so I doubt they have the ability to chase you for the notice. In your shoes I would be inclined to just leave too.
My last yard was only a few miles from my house so I was able to go there every day and check water and hay etc. I'd often get there in the dark after work and then have to clean the hay manger and water bucket (and provide additional bucket as horse ran out every night and every day I would ask for another bucket but it was only done when they knew I was coming ) . This is sadly not even uncommon on full and part livery in my experience.

 

[Red-1]

The last livery yard I was at full time, I left after they did something I had expressly forbid.

The first two times I gave them a reminder, the third time I rocked up whilst they were teaching, loaded everything into the lorry, waited until the lesson finished and paid up to that day what I owed, explaining why I was leaving and saying that I was disappointed but did give two chances. I gave no notice.

We actually left on good terms, as they had to admit that they had broken the agreement even after reminders. I have never been bad mouthed.

It would not have mattered anyway as I drove him to a friend's place and from there relocated to keep mine at home.

 

[tristar]

it affects everyone who keeps a horse which is why we horse owners get treated like crap by so many yards. For your information a basic full livery in most areas is circa 600 a month. I have no idea why you now think I am something to do with the yard just because you don't like the opposite view? You don't want to pay your notice, your not going to pay your notice, you don't care about your reputation, your choice. You can't prove the yard does not do the jobs, you assume they don't. So glad you could get a lawyer on a Friday night ? 20 quid a day to keep, feed, bed, turn out, muck out, it's peanuts in real terms. I Get the rude staff but how do you come across to them. Good luck with your move, just be prepared that the word will follow that your not trustworthy in the payment stakes



i dare say that the conditions and attitudes of the yard are well known by others in the area and op will no doubt get the benefit of the doubt because of that, i find that is usually the case.

op, the yard has not just broken or changed the contract without your agreement, it has cause you severe stress, and the worst thing of all seems to leaving an animal without fresh water, no excuses

i wish you out of there soon as poss and the best of luck with getting a routine that suits your horse and you, because this is about the horse and you, forget the shit and aim for what you want, knowing what you want is half the battle, forget about them and their destruction, ignorance and sheer willfulness to make keeping YOUR horse a misery, they owe you big time.

put your blinkers on cut through the crap and aim high

 

[planete]

If people voted with their feet and did as Red-1 did, some yards would stop feeling they can get away with shoddy care for horses. I am all for being fair but it works both ways. Clean water always available is a legal requirement in horse welfare I believe. It is the yard which should be worried about their reputation, not the OP.

 

[MiniMilton]

They’re being paid around £20 a day is it not much to ask!

Is that 20 pound a day for just providing water, or 20 pound a day for hay, food, water, mucking out, turnout, rent, insurance... Etc
Really when you factor in all the livery costs yard owners are usually getting pittance, staff members are usually getting pittance. Hence why they get ratty with liveries that think they are paying generously.

 

[Chianti]

Not whining or expecting any special treatment..
Your missing the point..
When I viewed I informed he is a water bucket user. That wasn’t an issue when viewing. So for one I should not have got the brunt of someone’s bad mood today and also the rule book shouldn’t suddenly change. It’s not wanting special treatment but not disrespecting someone in public like that out of the blue and also going back on what was said when viewing regarding his water needs. There were no stipulations in only water feeder use then.
They have poor communication between the staff generally and this is the result. On top of failing to check the automatic water feeder or keep on top of their very young not too bothered staff to. Is negligence. With not everyone being on the same page or staffs work being checked is poor management.

Will be leaving and moving him. But needed to hear others experiences and views on the matter of the rules changing or them going back on things or just not even ever checking their own water feeders and to vent.
There is the other matter of having to give notice and having to pay for a service that’s not up to standard for the horse that I believed was going to be catered to and leaving early while paying for the notice period. Money doesn’t grow on tree’s and I need to know where I stand on that matter also.

It's very hard because once trust has broken down you start to worry about what else is being skipped on while you're not there. I was on a yard with my last horse that used automatic water feeders and didn't like them. Apart from that the yard was very good so I put up with them as my horse seemed to cope. I think if you have a contract that stipulates a months notice then you'll have to give that unless you can come to some agreement with the YO. If you leave without giving notice then word may get round to other yards and you risk not being able to find a new home. I was on a pretty bad yard with no contract but still gave the YM a months money to get out as I was worried about her taking any anger she felt out on my horse.

 

[Chianti]

Your first post quite clearly states that their has been crap in his drinker since the first week those were your words so it is an obvious conclusion to draw that either the crap has been left in it. so now your saying that your horse craps in the drinker when he is in the stable each day. If this is the case it's not the lazy staff at fault because how do you know that your water was clean when done and pony craps in it after stables done and checked and surley you could have tied a heavy duty plastic bag on it so if pony craps on it it's an easy fix. It's bad enough cleaning crap out of an auto waterer when it's your own once in a blue moon, but to have to do this daily is another story

The OP says she's on full livery - why should she have to tie plastic bags onto her horse's water source? She's paying for a service and a basic part of that is that her horse can access clean, fresh water. She's not asking for the moon.

 

[SusieT]

Full livery for horses includes maintaining a clean drinking source that the horse is keen to drink out of. It is not about having a row of battery farmed 'hens' that either thrive or die regardless of individual quirks. If you don't wish to provide full livery whichi includes basic animal care such as providing a clean environment, then do not offer full livery.
Owners can cut corners but paid provider services cannot.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

We have automatic drinkers for the entire of both yards. There is one disgusting horse that no matter what side his drinker is on he will crap in it every single day! So he gets a water bucket and the drinker is taped up with duct tape. Saves emptying it every day.

So it is entirely possible that your horse craps in it every day.

 

[Shilasdair]

I can't believe some of the answers the OP is receiving, so would like to make a few points;
1. £600 a month is a not inconsiderable amount of money - as much as many people's mortgages/rent.
2. If livery yards aren't making a profit they are happy with, that's on them. Sensible business people calculate their costs and charge accordingly.
3. In the OP's case the YO was fully aware, and in agreement with her horse's need for a water bucket rather than an automatic drinker.
4, Research has shown that horses drink less in total from drinkers than buckets (I can't be bothered to find the reference though).

Horses are a hobby and a source of pleasure, which people pay a considerable proportion of their income for.
But full livery offered in this country (I live in England) often treat the horses badly - they stand in for hours without food, on dirty wet bedding, the YO buys in poor quality hay then whines when the horses leave the weeds/thistles, they complain about water used, etc.
Most small business owners work their arses off to achieve success - but YOs seem to be harking back to the era of landed gentry and think they should be able to lie in bed all day, and have their multiple own horses and their life style supported by livery customers, who they treat like mediaeval serfs.
And that this is to some extent supported by the government in the BPS scheme.

There, I feel better for that rant.

 

[Ish2020]

I cannot believe that some people being so nasty to the op. 600 is not inconsiderable amount of money considering I pay €415 a month which coverts into 377. Pound a month for 7 day full livery. Horse should be well cared no matter how much it cost and if yard owners not making enough they should increase the livery fee and technically speaking a contract means nothing legally .

 

[Shilasdair]

I should add that I am on DIY livery, been on a nice yard for 14 years so don't have complaints - but I've seen my poor friends trying to find full livery with a variety of horror stories.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

And your doing exactly the same. All you want is confirmation that you are okay to flouce off the yard break the contract yourself and get the support off random unidentified folk on a forum. Well sorry if it offends and you are more than entitled to vote with your feet contracts work both ways. You cannot prove when your horse craps in the drinker so who is to say this is neglect. You dont like the yard I get it, you dont like the staff, I get it. But pay your dues and move. There is no way on god's great earth I would give notice on a full livery yard and leave my horse in their care unless it was for a relocation. I value my horse way more than a few quid.

If the horse is known to use the automatic drinker as a loo, it is pretty obvious that the auto drinker is not suitable for him, as I doubt that any member of staff is going to be checking hourly overnight that he can access clean drinking water. Therefore he needs a bucket.

We have one mare who strongly dislikes fresh water, we think it is the smell of chlorine that puts her off, she certainly wouldn't use an automatic drinker.

 

[Berpisc]

As has been pointed out, the provision of water is essential and a legal requirement. If the yard is not prepared to provide this bearing in mind you discussed his requirements before moving there then I can understand that you might not feel the need to pay the required notice.
Good luck in your next move.