On no, not another weight gain/condition post :)

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A Musing

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Righto, sorry about this but it would be nice to get views on this specific diet, although I realise there is lots of general info on HHO :)

Horse is currently at the vets undergoing a battery of tests and, once we get to the end of these (and hopefully we identify what's going on), I'm going to have another discussion with the vet about diet.

I've posted in vet care as we've found moderate kissing spines. The info I've had has been so brilliant as I have had a more informed chat with vet. I would like to do the same re her feed.

Current view is there isn't any absorption/intolerance issue that would explain her weight/condition loss, so most likely pain related, sadly.

She has the following split over 2 feeds a day:

- 2 large scoops chaff
- 1 large scoop livery mix (not sure of the make but will be something like Baileys/D&H cool mix)
- 1/2 large scoop sugar beet
- medium mug micronised linseed
- baileys balancer
- 3/4 large haynets (unsoaked)

Daily turnout but the grass is poor so may not be getting much from that. Exercise has been patchy due to virus/weather and sore back (hence the tests). Other than being skinny and having had a cold/cough, she actually looks well - alert, good coat, happy, lots of energy, good feet.

I've been increasing her feed gradually once I noticed the weight loss but hasn't made much difference although it's early days. She came to me as a good doer so she started with a much lighter diet than this. Recent virus meant she went from lean to poor quite quickly.

I realise the above feed is too light and she needs more calories. Current view from vet is move to 3 feeds a day and add conditioning cubes.

Would welcome your thoughts/recommendations for next time I speak to the vet. Will also call one of the feed companies.

I'm on a diet (oh, the irony) but you lot can have extra fat conditioning biscuits on me :)

ETA: 7yo, TBx, teeth fine, no stomach/gut/ulcer issue identified. Back not so :(
 
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I'd cut the chaff out. Nutritionally it offers very little and as horses can only absorb so much in one feeding there's a chance it's bulking up the food too much and the good stuff isn't being 'absorbed'.

I've got a weight problem tb and he's on -
1/2 scoop spiller a balancer
1 scoop sugar beet
1 scoop rolled barley
1/2 scoop conditioning cubes

1 capful of veg oil
1 capful of linseed oil.

We do that 3 times a day (sometimes 4) when he's skinny.
Currently he's looking great and his having it just once a day :)

I'd also keep her excersise to a minimum as that never helps a skinny horse!
 
Thanks EC - good point about the chaff, I think it's been a bit deceptive as she gets two good buckets of feed a day but if that's due to a lot of chaff, it's not getting the calories into her. Hadn't thought about switching the chaff out and putting in something conditioning instead.

Am thinking I might increase the linseed, add a conditioning cube or mix and could take out the chaff. Maybe even take out the livery mix if she's going onto a conditioning mix/cube? And then have a look at adding in oil too although think the linseed does the same thing.
 
A Musing said:
Righto, sorry about this but it would be nice to get views on this specific diet, although I realise there is lots of general info on HHO :)

Horse is currently at the vets undergoing a battery of tests and, once we get to the end of these (and hopefully we identify what's going on), I'm going to have another discussion with the vet about diet.

I've posted in vet care as we've found moderate kissing spines. The info I've had has been so brilliant as I have had a more informed chat with vet. I would like to do the same re her feed.

Current view is there isn't any absorption/intolerance issue that would explain her weight/condition loss, so most likely pain related, sadly.

She has the following split over 2 feeds a day:

- 2 large scoops chaff
- 1 large scoop livery mix (not sure of the make but will be something like Baileys/D&H cool mix)
- 1/2 large scoop sugar beet
- medium mug micronised linseed
- baileys balancer
- 3/4 large haynets (unsoaked)

Daily turnout but the grass is poor so may not be getting much from that. Exercise has been patchy due to virus/weather and sore back (hence the tests). Other than being skinny and having had a cold/cough, she actually looks well - alert, good coat, happy, lots of energy, good feet.

I've been increasing her feed gradually once I noticed the weight loss but hasn't made much difference although it's early days. She came to me as a good doer so she started with a much lighter diet than this. Recent virus meant she went from lean to poor quite quickly.

I realise the above feed is too light and she needs more calories. Current view from vet is move to 3 feeds a day and add conditioning cubes.

Would welcome your thoughts/recommendations for next time I speak to the vet. Will also call one of the feed companies.

I'm on a diet (oh, the irony) but you lot can have extra fat conditioning biscuits on me :)

ETA: 7yo, TBx, teeth fine, no stomach/gut/ulcer issue identified. Back not so :(
Click to expand...

I would either cut out the chaff or swap the chaff to a grass chaff like readi grass and reduce it to one scoop, I would also cut out the mix as this is most likely full of starch which will be poorly digested. I would probably add some soaked grass nuts like the high energy simple systems ones, I would up the linseed, perhaps a cup in each feed and you could also add a glug of something like sunflower oil to each feed. You want as much fibre as possible with added oil for calories and the least amount of starch possible. Also I would up meals to 3-4 times a day.

Ad lib forage is also very important, is there anyway you can supply ad lib hay or haylage out in the field? That would significantly help ...my poor doer tb has come out of winter living out 24/7 looking like this due to adlib hay -

image-7_zpsb7fea3fc.jpg
 
First thing that strikes me is that she gets a fair amount of a branded mix, which is already fortified with vits and mins and then she gets balancer as well.
What is the chaff exactly? well, regardless of what it is, it will be fibre based anyway, so digested in hind gut, which excludes it from the small meal rule.
She needs easily digestible calories, so fibre, fat and protein. The livery mix will have loads of starch, but so will conditioning cube.
I feed the whole yard on Pure Feeds and am happy with it, so maybe worth having a look at that.
If not, I would go for a high calorie chaff (freeze/UHT dried grass, basically) or maybe alfalfa if she tolerates it well, then a good source of fat, either the micronised linseed or something like outshine and either a balancer or a vit min supplement. You can add sugar beet as well.
 
The yard I am at uses mainly Saracen products. Spoke to a nutritionalist there who has recommended - show improver pencils (conditioning feed but lower starch/sugar than most), equijewel to help build up muscle (rice bran supplement, high protein), chaff and sugar beet if I want to plus lots of forage.

If that doesn't work, increase the pencils/equijewel and maybe add some Alpha A instead of basic chaff.

I can take out the balancer and linseed, although I've got a tub of micro linseed left so will reduce that gradually whilst we move her onto new feed.

Will speak to vet but they seemed pretty relaxed about feed, just that she needs more easily digestible calories, which is what the above seems to deliver.

Any thoughts? This is a whole new area for me as normally have very good doers!
 
If using saracen feeds I would use their re-leave with the equi jewel rather than livery pencils and rather than using a basic chaff I would add a grass chaff which would be more conditioning
 
Mines been on box rest for several weeks & lost alot of weight due to being depressed at being in!
Changed her feed to fast fibre (I know it's non weight gaining but she's doing well on it!) cool balancer & then handful of topchop grass as it has a soya oil coating for condition & a few handfuls of this in a desperate bucket. She is doing very well on this & during summer will just be on fast fibre & balancer :)
 
I agree with the use of Pure Feeds. Mine has been on it, and was lovely and shiney. I like to add sugar beet, and Baileys Outshine with it.
 
I had good results with pure feeds last winter but better results this year usinga "barefoot" diet of speedibeet, micronised linseed and pro hoof suppliment.

I would suggest giving 3 or 4 feeds a day instead of just two. Mine leaves her feed if you give too much so I give her an extra feed.

Try giving more hay too, most people underestimate how much a horse goes through in a day. You need to get as much down your horse as possible.
 
Thanks Kat. You're right on the hay. Been talking to the vets and they've said make sure she gets as much as she can eat! I'm on a livery yard and they tend to be a bit regimented about when they do nets but I've said she needs ad lib hay and as much of it, plus I'm likely to have to pay for the conditioning feed as they generally don't stock it, so will see if they can manage that. I'm also chucking in extra hay whenever I'm there!

Fortunately she has a good appetite and has been eating her feeds. Have added equi jewel in and will switch over to conditioning pencils in a few days. If that doesn't work I might try veg oil but will have another chat with the vet before I make any other changes.

Have some useful info on calories and split between forage and feed so will be putting a cold towel on my head and working some maths this weekend!!
 
I had a similar issue with hay at a livery yard. The solution was to ask them to weigh it and feed a set weight during the day, and to increase the set weight until the horse wouldn't eat it all.

True adlib for mine was almost double what they were giving her as standard. Trouble is she never really cleans up so it is easy to think she has enough. ......

If you are bound by the yard feeds then the best bet would be to buy a bag of micronised linseed and add some to their feed and see if that is enough. I had the same issue, the yard feed was very much aimed at overweight cobs and natives, at first I added oil then I started buying my own feed and the YO agreed to give me a small discountin return.
 
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