'On the bit' Gone Wrong!

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
I was just reading the thread on riding a horse without a contact and I was thinking about my own horse who was ridden with hard sawing hands by a former owner who was trying to ride him 'on the bit' 😒
Has anyone else had to retrain horses because of a misunderstanding of what contact really is?

My boy took a long time to build the strength needed to carry himself properly. He can still be quite stiff at times. He also had a bulge on his neck from misuse of draw reins which is now thankfully gone.

I would have rathered his former owner had never thought about his outline and just ridden him as he found him. Has anyone here had a similar experience?
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
Than you. A friend of mine is a very good dressage rider and to be honest it's only because of her help that I know what to do.
I used to be happy to ride on a loose rein but dressage is like physical therapy for him. It's fantastic when it's done correctly. Whatever about my boy I'm still a work in progress 🙂
 

Cortez

Tough but Fair
Joined
17 January 2009
Messages
15,148
Location
Ireland
Visit site
Unfortunately, nowadays, that would describe the majority of horses I have through my hands. It was actually (almost) better in the days when nobody attempted to put horses "on the bit". A little knowledge is a dangerous thing...
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
I think a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, in all areas of life.
I have found it takes a while to be able to feel how the horse is moving, like if his back is up or not. I never realised how skilled dressage is.

It takes so much concentration compared to cross country or showjumping, at the level I'm at anyway!
 

Kylara

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 August 2014
Messages
677
Location
Hants/Berks border
Visit site
It's a fairly common problem. I see it a fair bit. I've always found they have an almost light bulb moment when they realise what you want and move into the contact properly. They'll often have no backend either and are generally weak in the upper thigh so getting to the 'properly' takes time!

I've got a hundred mile an hour beast that is learning how to work properly and is coming along nicely. When he blocks in his neck or over rounds in canter he becomes unrideable. It's the result of no contact/holding up contact and is just as annoying to fix as it too is based on weakness and non understanding. So both extremes can have a similar result.
 

TuscanBunnyGirl

Well-Known Member
Joined
8 February 2011
Messages
1,689
Location
Nr. Boston, Lincs
Visit site
Yes :( I have a lovely lad who was ridden disgustingly deep, literally nose on chest and it's taking quite a while to get him to stretch forward and feel confident in the bit/my hands. When he has a worried moment (hes still quite young) he curls up and goes side to side with his chin to shoulder as that's his comfort zone now :( so sad. He's getting there though :) Unfortunately this is 'the look' a lot of judges/riders are rewarding now- such a shame. I think if people understood biomechanics a tad more and actually cared, it'd be a lot better. Once a horse can't curl up in his neck anymore, they start taking the pressure through the lumbar region..and once that's gone it goes to the hocks and once they've tired its on the suspensory ligaments :(
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
I find riding correctly is a lot harder work aswell. I used to ride as a child and gave it up for over 15 years. Back then it was all about going fast and jumping.
Improving my riding and my horse's way of using his body is a new concept for me. Learning how much can be done by using my seat, and how to use my seat was another eye opener!
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
I just read your post TuscanBunnyGirl. These things are upsetting.

My horse's former owner rode my boy one day and seeing his mouth pulled open was a shock. He was ridden in a figure of 8 nose band, a flash and a martingale just for flat work. He's very responsive so he doesn't even need that tack.

I suppose it all depends on what people are taught.
 

SEL

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 February 2016
Messages
12,303
Location
Buckinghamshire
Visit site
Last year when backing my youngster I decided to have a course of lessons at a recommended yard. Probably a good decade since I'd actually had a formal lesson & the first 5 were spent on one of their schoolmasters reminding me what lateral moves were supposed to look like & not being too fussed about where it's head was. Lesson 6 was a different instructor and for a whole hour she had me setting my hands against the horse, fidgeting with the reins and trying to force it's head down. I never went back - decided if that was the way things were 'done' these days then I'll stick to being a happy hacker......
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
Last year when backing my youngster I decided to have a course of lessons at a recommended yard. Probably a good decade since I'd actually had a formal lesson & the first 5 were spent on one of their schoolmasters reminding me what lateral moves were supposed to look like & not being too fussed about where it's head was. Lesson 6 was a different instructor and for a whole hour she had me setting my hands against the horse, fidgeting with the reins and trying to force it's head down. I never went back - decided if that was the way things were 'done' these days then I'll stick to being a happy hacker......

If it's working then why change it
 

fattylumpkin

Well-Known Member
Joined
5 September 2013
Messages
767
Location
Sweden
www.thestoryofhorses.com
Coming back to riding was a rude awakening when I found out it's no longer enough for a horse to look for contact, they also had to have their head in a specific position or it doesn't count. Contact doesn't even seem desirable these days, getting the head in the right place is everything. It's gotten to such a state now that it's preferable to have your horse's head pulled in well below the bit, nose to chest, rather than show a horse with their nose out in front. Bitless riding is not the answer to this problem, but for the sake of the horses we need to stop glorifying riders who force their horses into outlines that are physically damaging and teach young riders that a set head position is not the be all and end all of advanced riding.

I think the problem is that a particular head position is easy to see, whereas the real hallmarks of an exceptionally well schooled and balanced horse are largely invisible to the eyes of the inexperienced.
 

DiNozzo

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 January 2014
Messages
2,322
Visit site
My horse had never been ridden in anyway correctly and his neck was a massive ewe-y mess.

After months of hacking in straight lines the top of his neck, over his back and his bum muscles have developed.

He had a little hollow with no muscle at the bottom of his neck/ in front of his wither. Thats now filled in.

The middle of his neck (kind of horizontally-ish between shoulder up to poll), and the bit just in front of his shoulder is still to be filled in.

As he's had no proper schooling I assume that this muscling will come with proper schooling and he starts to really take the contact forwards?

He has been schooled hacking out, but so far we've concentrated on forwards and his engine and transitions being in balance. Recently, without any sort of focus on it, he has started to take the contact forwards and go 'out' as well as into the contact.

His default too, is either tucked just behind the contact, or with his ears in my nostrils so the focus is getting him to a) not napping, and b) not spooking at the squirrels that like to throw things at him.
 

Mule

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 October 2016
Messages
7,655
Visit site
I think the term 'on the bit' can put too much focus on the riders hands aswell.

Also if a person doesn't have someone knowledgeable to learn from it would be very easy to get lost in all the different terms and descriptions people use. I don't understand half of what people are saying when they are talking about dressage!

I can't learn about riding horses until i can feel what the horse is doing. Theory goes way over my head.
Coming back to riding was a rude awakening when I found out it's no longer enough for a horse to look for contact, they also had to have their head in a specific position or it doesn't count. Contact doesn't even seem desirable these days, getting the head in the right place is everything. It's gotten to such a state now that it's preferable to have your horse's head pulled in well below the bit, nose to chest, rather than show a horse with their nose out in front. Bitless riding is not the answer to this problem, but for the sake of the horses we need to stop glorifying riders who force their horses into outlines that are physically damaging and teach young riders that a set head position is not the be all and end all of advanced riding.

I think the problem is that a particular head position is easy to see, whereas the real hallmarks of an exceptionally well schooled and balanced horse are largely invisible to the eyes of the inexperienced.
 

Kylara

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 August 2014
Messages
677
Location
Hants/Berks border
Visit site
When a horse has the right muscle and moves forward actively from behind they will move into the contact. However most horses need a bit of help for this, whether that be a bit of enforced flexion to relax the neck or some more impulsion into a half halt. You should, with a blank canvas that is put together well have less difficulty getting there than when you have to resculpt and retrain muscles but it still comes. Once the correct energy is there you can ask more from the horse and start building up the muscle and fitness to work correctly. You do need to work on the contact to help this - either stopping leaning, rushing, forehand etc or at the other end tucking, ducking behind contact, hollowing.

It is essential to work in the right direction and when you get the 'proper' moment, keep it for a circle or long side and then long rein to stretch out for a cirle/long side and then pick the contact back up. Don't drop the horse but gradually let the reins go. Taking the contact back is really important, no matter which end of the scale you come from as you are going from stretch and relaxation back to engaged contact. You may have difficulty getting it back without losing relaxation, but practice helps. Then once you get more of the right stuff remember to give frequent breaks as the muscles will be sore. Don't overdo if it's feeling good!

The curling behind the contact is in some ways easier to sort as you just need to get the neck out and then work on proper contact. With my beasty it's more a case of lifting his head up (looks a bit messy with hands lifting high) to stop the neck/shoulder block that causes him to just barge along like a nutter. He responds to the lift and half half, sits on his hocks and manages 4-5 sides of proper canter and then a nice trot transition. With others it's a case of dropping the contact and kicking on to get more impulsion and get them to engage the back and drop the head out. Mine doesn't back of the contact he just barrels through it with his head neatly tucked and the contact is useless, with others they vanish from your hand. With hollowers you want wide and low hands and lots of leg to get the impulsion to do most of the work. Solid contact with some enforced flexion to relax the neck and you're off to a good start.
 

scats

Well-Known Member
Joined
11 September 2007
Messages
10,436
Location
Wherever it is I’ll be limping
Visit site
One of mine came to me with a natural head swing from side to side when being ridden. He obviously thought was expected of him!

Took ages to get that out of his head and even longer to persuade him to work correctly over his back. He just had no concept of it.
 
Top