On the fence pony shopping

[charlotte0916]

Hi all,

I’ve had an account here for a long time and tend to read a lot of the posts but haven’t posted for a very long time!

I’m currently looking to buy and have a bit of a ‘what would you do’ question seeking impartial advice.
I’m looking at a horse I originally wouldn’t have picked out, I was looking for a soft character and she’s ‘spicier’ that but the more I’ve seen the her more I like her. I’ve ridden more horses than I can count before being in the position to buy at the moment and know it’s rare to ‘click’ as effectively as I have with her - especially from the original position of not expecting to like her! However, she’s 6 and last time she went on trial to a buyer she got so stressed she got ulcers (scoped + treated), she’s got a superficial but ugly scar on her and I’ve also found out she had a non-impactful (but nonetheless removed) bone chip in her hock. My head says no but my heart is bummed.

It would be great to hear which side of the fence others would land on with that combo?

 

[chaps89]

Hmmm. I'm quite risk averse but I'm not sure those things would put me off.
Ulcers - there was a cause, she's clear now and you know it might be a problem so can manage accordingly.
Superficial scar - do you know the cause, is it over any joints and seen a vet report confirming there's no internal/structural damage? But unless I wanted to show that wouldn't put me off.
Bone chip in hock might worry most of the 3. I'd want to know if there was a cause (accident/kick of some type?), how it was found - was she lame.
And I'd want her to be in at least the same amount of work, if not more, than I was intending to do with her and for a sustained period of time too to know there's been no ongoing issues.
However it's worth considering possible arthritis in the future (but then, what older horse doesn't get this anyway)
I say all this though as a person who values that 'click' and tends to keep my horses. If I thought I might have to sell in future I absolutely wouldn't consider it.
I'd also factor into account the bonkers horse market and how hard it is to find a good horse, but also that she must be priced accordingly and I'd expect her to be cheaper than others who were similar. It's also worth bearing in mind insurance isn't likely to cover any if those things too.

 

[Jellymoon]

Oh gosh, I think I would have to walk away from that one, too many issues for me. But it depends on your budget I guess, if she’s the best you can afford...

 

[charlotte0916]

Hmmm. I'm quite risk averse but I'm not sure those things would put me off.
Ulcers - there was a cause, she's clear now and you know it might be a problem so can manage accordingly.
Superficial scar - do you know the cause, is it over any joints and seen a vet report confirming there's no internal/structural damage? But unless I wanted to show that wouldn't put me off.
Bone chip in hock might worry most of the 3. I'd want to know if there was a cause (accident/kick of some type?), how it was found - was she lame.
And I'd want her to be in at least the same amount of work, if not more, than I was intending to do with her and for a sustained period of time too to know there's been no ongoing issues.
However it's worth considering possible arthritis in the future (but then, what older horse doesn't get this anyway)
I say all this though as a person who values that 'click' and tends to keep my horses. If I thought I might have to sell in future I absolutely wouldn't consider it.
I'd also factor into account the bonkers horse market and how hard it is to find a good horse, but also that she must be priced accordingly and I'd expect her to be cheaper than others who were similar. It's also worth bearing in mind insurance isn't likely to cover any if those things too.

You’ve rather hit the nail on the head there will all the factors I’m weighing up. One of the key concerns is whether or not she would be insurable (to a useful extent) but you’re echoing my fears there that it seems unlikely.

The superficial scar is on a fetlock, healed and vet reports/x-rays available and I would re-x-ray at vetting anyway to be sure and have a comparison. My concern here is whether it would be insurable again and whilst I’m assuming it would there isn’t any evidence regarding how it’ll cope with full work.

She was last in full work on the trial with the ulcers, so tricky to know how she’ll be in the long run. Re the bone chip it was found on an x-ray done at vetting for the trial buyer, it wasn’t causing a problem and was only taken out later when she was out of work for the ulcer treatment I believe as a matter of ‘just in case’. I’m not sure how it was sustained specifically though and not sure if it did any structural damage while it was in there.
As you’ve said too, I really value that ‘click’ and so am finding had to walk away from what feels like a ‘rough diamond’ if you will. I would be keeping for life barring disaster of some kind but am trying to think of the long term prognosis/sensible-ness for all this too.

 

[charlotte0916]

Oh gosh, I think I would have to walk away from that one, too many issues for me. But it depends on your budget I guess, if she’s the best you can afford...

That’s what I’m weighing up really. She is fantastic is all ways herself, just these things are rather a kicker!
I would hope low five figures would stretch a bit further than it seems to be in the current market, but having mixed success so far.

 

[Wishfilly]

That’s what I’m weighing up really. She is fantastic is all ways herself, just these things are rather a kicker!
I would hope low five figures would stretch a bit further than it seems to be in the current market, but having mixed success so far.

For low 5 figures, I think you can find one without the issues. I was expecting you to say mid 4 figures sort of budget. At that price, I think it would put me off.

I think you might struggle to get the 2(?) legs with issues insured, but I'm not an expert.

 

[Teaboy]

The bone chip would not worry me (although I’d like to know when it was removed and the X-rays done at the time - if she’s a higher value I’d X-ray all over anyway). Chips are far more common then people realise and not the end of the world certainly.
The scar is a shame but if your not planning on showing does it matter?
If you click with her ridden and believe you can work together none of these things would put me off.

 

[TheMule]

The thing that would put me off the most at that money and with me doubting if she's really the right 'type' for me is that she's not currently in full work?

 

[PSD]

I’ve always lived by “if you’re questioning it then don’t do it”. Seems a lot of money to part with to be wondering the things you’ve mentioned.

that being said, the issues aren’t really things that would put me off initially, but being a low 5 figure price I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe if the horse was low 4 figures...

 

[cauda equina]

She's young, been away on trial which didn't work out, and had time off for treatment of ulcers/bone chip
It sounds as if she might not have been in work consistently for all that long
What she appears to be now could be giving a false impression of how she turns out longer term in terms of ease of ride or soundness

Do you know anything about the trial home where she got ulcers?
I'm wondering how much her management while there could have caused them, or if she's a stressy type who doesn't cope well with any change

 

[be positive]

The thing that would put me off the most at that money and with me doubting if she's really the right 'type' for me is that she's not currently in full work?

I would really want to see her in full work to find out what you are getting when all is well, at least the seller is being honest regarding her history which is worth a fair bit but my main concern would be how long will it take for her to settle if she has gone through one traumatic trial, whether just moving and coming back to work will bring on ulcers again, obviously without doing it you will not know, and what you will do if she ends up not right for you with a slightly iffy vet history that will mean a lot of exclusions on a 5 figure horse.

A few too many iffs for me and I tend to be inclined to take a punt on a nice horse with a few minor, not soundness related, issues, if you keep them at home rather than on a livery yard it is easier to deal with management of the more sensitive ones.

 

[charlotte0916]

For low 5 figures, I think you can find one without the issues. I was expecting you to say mid 4 figures sort of budget. At that price, I think it would put me off.

I think you might struggle to get the 2(?) legs with issues insured, but I'm not an expert.

I’m hoping so, I’m about 3 months into looking now and the pandemic is slowing things down a bit (not wanting to travel more than ~hour to view currently or doing virtual viewings in the first place), but there seems to be little in my price bracket in the area currently. Ah well, might just been a case of keep on looking and fingers crossed restrictions can roll back further soon!

 

[charlotte0916]

The thing that would put me off the most at that money and with me doubting if she's really the right 'type' for me is that she's not currently in full work?

The bone chip would not worry me (although I’d like to know when it was removed and the X-rays done at the time - if she’s a higher value I’d X-ray all over anyway). Chips are far more common then people realise and not the end of the world certainly.
The scar is a shame but if your not planning on showing does it matter?
If you click with her ridden and believe you can work together none of these things would put me off.

The bone chip would not worry me (although I’d like to know when it was removed and the X-rays done at the time - if she’s a higher value I’d X-ray all over anyway). Chips are far more common then people realise and not the end of the world certainly.
The scar is a shame but if your not planning on showing does it matter?
If you click with her ridden and believe you can work together none of these things would put me off.

Thank you for the context re the bone chip, that’s really helpful. I’ve been trying to figure out how much of a problem it may/may not be and came to the conclusion that it can be somewhat common and best to take out. Just a case of hoping there would be no damage done while it was in there in that case?
Also no, not planning on showing so shouldn’t be a problem with the other scar!

 

[charlotte0916]

The thing that would put me off the most at that money and with me doubting if she's really the right 'type' for me is that she's not currently in full work?

Oh dear, sorry for the double reply, I’ve got myself in a bit of a pickle! I think the insurance and being unable to see how she’ll stand up in full work are my two key concerns. Very tricky!

I’ve always lived by “if you’re questioning it then don’t do it”. Seems a lot of money to part with to be wondering the things you’ve mentioned.

that being said, the issues aren’t really things that would put me off initially, but being a low 5 figure price I wouldn’t even consider it. Maybe if the horse was low 4 figures...

Hmm, PictusSweetDreams you’re right, I’m very aware that it’s been a long time saving to get to this point so very keen to make sure head as well as heart is in the equation. I agree, to be honest myself and friends I’ve talked to were expecting her to be mid/high four figures rather than low five, particularly as she’s a bit of a marmite mare who will either definitely like you or definitely not.

 

[Trouper]

I think I might be tempted to let my heart rule my head for just a little bit further down the road to get some more answers. I would want to know a lot more about what happened to her on the trial (if it's possible to find out). Did she move to a completely different set-up, how long was she there, what work did they do with her? It may just be that, as a youngster, she just could not cope with all that at once? How is that going to fit with the life-style you would be giving her?
I think there are physical issues with all horses you buy - seen and unseen. It sounds as if you have quite a good explanation of what they are in her case so, yes, I would want current x-rays and a conversation with my vet to discuss the long-term implications for her. The insurance aspects would not necessarily put me off at this stage.
However, I would certainly be expecting all you know about her to be reflected in a price well below 5 figures and I would be having a conversation along those lines with the seller - explaining that I was seriously interested and prepared to put money into vetting etc but not at that price. "My offer price would be something in the region of .........." They can only say no!

 

[charlotte0916]

She's young, been away on trial which didn't work out, and had time off for treatment of ulcers/bone chip
It sounds as if she might not have been in work consistently for all that long
What she appears to be now could be giving a false impression of how she turns out longer term in terms of ease of ride or soundness

Do you know anything about the trial home where she got ulcers?
I'm wondering how much her management while there could have caused them, or if she's a stressy type who doesn't cope well with any change

Yes, that’s what I’m quite concerned about to. Re the trial, when she was 4yrs she was tried by a professional rider so was in a comp yard set up with minimal turnout and brought into full work. I’ve heard from a number of people they had a monumental clash of personalities which contributed. I’m keen to keep any horse on a ulcer friendly diet (prevention>cure), keeping exercise max 5 days per week as per research and have sought out a gold dust yard locally that offers all year turnout to at least some extent so I guess the question is whether that would be enough or whether it’s just personality.

I would really want to see her in full work to find out what you are getting when all is well, at least the seller is being honest regarding her history which is worth a fair bit but my main concern would be how long will it take for her to settle if she has gone through one traumatic trial, whether just moving and coming back to work will bring on ulcers again, obviously without doing it you will not know, and what you will do if she ends up not right for you with a slightly iffy vet history that will mean a lot of exclusions on a 5 figure horse.

A few too many iffs for me and I tend to be inclined to take a punt on a nice horse with a few minor, not soundness related, issues, if you keep them at home rather than on a livery yard it is easier to deal with management of the more sensitive ones.

I agree, I have asked whether a trial would be a possibility given these issues and one option is 2 weeks if she doesn’t settle return and refund. Also the seller has offered to pay for a month of gastroguard, should she get them due to moving. All round very kind offers, between that and the honesty they are a seller I would be more inclined to buy from than others. She would be on part livery, albeit a very quite yard so I can’t control every variable, if she is stressed by that.

 

[be positive]

Yes, that’s what I’m quite concerned about to. Re the trial, when she was 4yrs she was tried by a professional rider so was in a comp yard set up with minimal turnout and brought into full work. I’ve heard from a number of people they had a monumental clash of personalities which contributed. I’m keen to keep any horse on a ulcer friendly diet (prevention>cure), keeping exercise max 5 days per week as per research and have sought out a gold dust yard locally that offers all year turnout to at least some extent so I guess the question is whether that would be enough or whether it’s just personality.


I agree, I have asked whether a trial would be a possibility given these issues and one option is 2 weeks if she doesn’t settle return and refund. Also the seller has offered to pay for a month of gastroguard, should she get them due to moving. All round very kind offers, between that and the honesty they are a seller I would be more inclined to buy from than others. She would be on part livery, albeit a very quite yard so I can’t control every variable, if she is stressed by that.

So she was not on trial to be sold but in a pro yard for a short time as a 4 year old and from the sound of things not done much since so totally untried, where do people get their ideas from regarding prices it seems crazy to ask 5 figures for a quirky unproven horse even if she is bred to win Badminton.

I would proceed with great caution as you can end up on tricky ground with offers of a refund, you need at least a month to give her a chance and if she were mine I would probably do a 4 week LWVTB IF I trusted you and felt the horse was being placed in the right home, the offer of gastrogard will muddy the waters as they need a prescription and ideally scoping first/ after, I think with the additional info I would walk unless they offer much better terms.

 

[oldie48]

I am assuming from what you have written that this is a well bred competition horse with some talent, is she is then the price could well be reasonable. The bone chip wouldn't bother me, nor would the scar if it's superficial, however, the ulcers would to some extent. You've explained why she developed ulcers but I'd worry that they were pain related and /or she's a stressy mare who would be hard work to keep happy. I think it is really important for the amateur competitive rider to have a horse that is relatively easy going and adaptable (but that's just my personal preference). TBH I think it comes down to how much you like her, the extent to which she'd help you realise your ambitions and whether you have the facilities to keep her so she's as happy and relaxed as she needs to be. Good luck with whatever you decide to do, one person's stress head is another's horse of a lifetime!

 

[cauda equina]

Sellers can be very good at explaining why xyz has happened but it's not always the whole truth (and may not be any of it)

 

[Melody Grey]

That’s what I’m weighing up really. She is fantastic is all ways herself, just these things are rather a kicker!
I would hope low five figures would stretch a bit further than it seems to be in the current market, but having mixed success so far.

Not for low five figures in a month of Sundays OP if I’ve interpreted correctly that this is the price tag for the horse you’re asking about?
The issues wouldn’t put me off at the right price (which would be in the lower end of the four figures dept.)
Just wondering whether there could also be a connection between injuries/ bone chip and the ulcers- the timing might help with this?

 

[Upthecreek]

So she was not on trial to be sold but in a pro yard for a short time as a 4 year old and from the sound of things not done much since so totally untried, where do people get their ideas from regarding prices it seems crazy to ask 5 figures for a quirky unproven horse even if she is bred to win Badminton.

I would proceed with great caution as you can end up on tricky ground with offers of a refund, you need at least a month to give her a chance and if she were mine I would probably do a 4 week LWVTB IF I trusted you and felt the horse was being placed in the right home, the offer of gastrogard will muddy the waters as they need a prescription and ideally scoping first/ after, I think with the additional info I would walk unless they offer much better terms.

This. She is too expensive and you need a minimum of a 4 week trial. If the seller won’t reduce the price and agree to a 4 week trial I would walk away. If they do I would go for it if you really like the horse. I would have to REALLY like the horse in every way though because you are taking quite a risk that she will not stand up to full work I think.

 

[Wishfilly]

I’m hoping so, I’m about 3 months into looking now and the pandemic is slowing things down a bit (not wanting to travel more than ~hour to view currently or doing virtual viewings in the first place), but there seems to be little in my price bracket in the area currently. Ah well, might just been a case of keep on looking and fingers crossed restrictions can roll back further soon!

I think limiting your search to the local area is sensible at the moment, but as restrictions lift, you'll be able to travel more, and that will give you access to a lot more horses.

Due to this, I'd be inclined to wait!

 

[Kahlua]

None of the things you mention would worry me, however I would safeguard myself with a few things. Firstly I would ask someone who knows me and who I trust (for example your coach) if this is a good match for me? It’s totally normal for emotions to take over when horse searching and the desire to have something, can cloud your judgement, so the opinion of a trusted advisor can make everything clearer. If you get a yes this is a match for you, then you could make some initial enquiries with insurers and see if anything will be excluded. At that price I’m sure you would be getting xrays so double checking the chip/s have been removed effectively, however I know of a horse that has been to the Olympics and won at the top for a long time, whom has had 12 chips in its career, so this is not necessarily something to make you write it off straight away. I’m a bit confused on the timeline sorry, but if she’s 6 I’m assuming she is in full work and hasn’t been bothered by the chip removal? Ulcers can be an easily managed, or a horrendous thing to deal with, without scoping you won’t know if she does still have them, but I treat any horse that comes to me like they do have them and treat for at least the first month anyway.

Remember that once restrictions are lifted you will have the ability to travel further to look, which will open up potentially more opportunities, however finding the right horse can and does take time. Try to take out the emotional aspect out of the decision as much as you can ??

 

[charlotte0916]

Thank you all for the very helpful advice! It’s always useful to confirm what you’re thinking. I’ve had the conversation with the owner today that I think the situation has a few too many unknowns for me at the moment so ‘thank you, no’. Ah well, back to the search and fingers crossed the right one comes along soon!

 

[Fortanedancer]

honestly, if it were me. If I were having to ask others then I wouldn’t go for it.. I don’t think she’s the one, she’s come close but if she were a real click, I don’t think you’d be asking.

 

[BaronSamedi]

Never in a 100 million years would I allow a horse of mine go an a trial of any amount of time. Let alone 4 weeks. @Upthecreek you are off your rocker if you think any owner would do that

 

[Caol Ila]

Good decision, OP. For 5 figures, you can do better. I was horse hunting in January/February and seeing really nice horses in that price range. My budget, however, was low-to-mid 4 figures, so I have bought 2-year old. LOL.

But the travel restrictions are frustrating. I totally get that. It sucks. My 27-year old picked a shite time for her arthritis to take a fast, severe downturn. If she looked as awesome now as she looked at this time last year, I would not have been in the market. This sh1t definitely can push you to make decisions you might not have otherwise made. There were horses down in England which looked good, but my crystal ball wasn't telling me when Covid cases were going to get low enough for the Scottish government to ease travel restrictions (it still isn't), and that was just another stressful thing, on top of all the other stressful things like missing the mountains, missing the rivers and lochs, missing friends, my old horse's health issues. The 2-year old was a year younger than the horse I had envisioned myself buying, but otherwise she ticked all boxes. So fukk it. I bought her. You just need to make sure your "fukc it" decision is only marginally stupid and not very stupid. A pile of health issues in a 6-year old is veering towards very stupid.

 

[Bernster]

Hehe ’marginally stupid’ - I think that’s a fair assessment of most things we do horse wise ?. Good luck with your search OP you’ve got a decent budget for what you’re after even in this market. Whereabouts are you?

 

[Tabs]

Get a full vet check, ask for a second opinion from someone you trust to be levelheaded and then pour a yourself a wee dram lol. Good luck. Your horse is out there whether its this one or another, you'll get there

 

[atropa]

Think you've made the right choice OP. I might have bought her but at low 5 figures?! No way