On the subject of whips…. pony objecting to be hit...

woodlandswow

woodlandswow

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having read the other thread i thought i better not hijack it..

the grey bouncing thing bounced me right off last time i rode him.. i have always ridden with a short stick xc and sj as i felt i can use it if i need it..

i often tap him on shoulder if he was falling down a hill or falling out through a corner xc.. but i had never hit him on the bum until the other day (he's such a good boy normally :p:cool:)

basically he was being an a** and was too concentrated on the fact he was excited and was being silly.. stopping and starting like a bumper car.. my bad.. i shouldnt have been riding as i wasnt feeling great.. (i thought a ride may make me feel better)
anyway.. i hit him behind my leg and he had the biggest tantrum ive ever experienced.. and i fell off.. :mad:(and he's never in 2 ½ years had me off :()

i got back on and gently touched him.. and he threatened me :rolleyes: .. so i called it a day (slides away into a hole)

so.. how do you deal with a spoilt brat that cant cope with being hit? .. id rather not be chucked off every time he cant face he is wrong.. or was it him having the heebee jeebies that day??
 
I have a mare that over-reacts to the whip - sometimes I can forget, as my others are not at all bothered by the whip, and boy does she let me know :eek:

However there was a time that I could hardly carry a whip when riding her, but slowly she is getting better, like you I always feel that I should carry one for jumping, even though I rarely use it.

On the other side of the coin however, I think I would rather have one that reacts rather than not, much easier to train in some ways. To give you an example I know with this particular mare that if I tap her on the bum she will bunny-hop and change behind - very useful whilst trying to teach her to change.
 
I think you should find a way to ride your horse that means you dont have to hit him to get him to do what you want. Please try to bear in mind that your horse is never in the wrong, it will be rider error that means he does not understand what you are asking him to do or that you do not have the capability to keep him "entertained" when he is lively, and he behaves accordingly.

Experience has taught me that hitting a horse that is "playing up" generally has a negative rather then positive effect. I think it is a slippery slope towards having a full on battle that no one ever wins.
 
In all the time you've had him, he's been pretty good. I'd actually forget about it and carry on as normal. He was in high spirits, you were out of sorts and the combination was a poor mix.

TBH, I think you did the right thing in leaving it instead of forcing the issue when you weren't in a good mood.

Horses aren't daft, they won't suddenly develop a problem over one incident if everything else is constant.

He'll have a think about it, you'll return in your normal frame of mind and it'll be a fresh day.
 
Whip should only be used as a forward aid if the horse hasnt gone forward when asked or didnt understand, a tiny tap or tickle would help them, whip should never be used as a punishment. x
 
Allover said:
I think you should find a way to ride your horse that means you dont have to hit him to get him to do what you want. Please try to bear in mind that your horse is never in the wrong, it will be rider error that means he does not understand what you are asking him to do or that you do not have the capability to keep him "entertained" when he is lively, and he behaves accordingly.

Experience has taught me that hitting a horse that is "playing up" generally has a negative rather then positive effect. I think it is a slippery slope towards having a full on battle that no one ever wins.
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My boy is a real pita, from day one I have carried a schooling whip, even when he is being good as gold, if the rider does not carry a whip [in the correct hand] he will not quite do as asked, he seems to know every minor evasion, it is as if he learned it all in his former life.
How does one back up the regular aids if he ignores them.......I do discuss these things with him, but sometimes he just says to me "I AM going to try your patience"
I agree that no horse understands punishment, but they need to learn the rules.The whip can be used on a youngster to ask him to move over, or stop him from leaning in on a corner.
I don't carry a stick, I lost it one day when I was trying to reason with him in the forest and have never replaced it.
 
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Mine gives me the 'do you know who I am?' when you use the stick on him for flat work. He knows exaclty what I want but he doesnt always want to do it so will ignore you before getting stroppy about it. He almost dares you to tell him again by bucking, ride him through it and he soon gets over him self.
 
Miss L Toe said:
My boy is a real pita, from day one I have carried a schooling whip, even when he is being good as gold, if the rider does not carry a whip [in the correct hand] he will not quite do as asked, he seems to know every minor evasion, it is as if he learned it all in his former life.
How does one back up the regular aids if he ignores them.......I do discuss these things with him, but sometimes he just says to me "I AM going to try your patience"
I agree that no horse understands punishment, but they need to learn the rules.The whip can be used on a youngster to ask him to move over, or stop him from leaning in on a corner.
I don't carry a stick, I lost it one day when I was trying to reason with him in the forest and have never replaced it.
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I have no problems with a flick to remind the horse to move forward/straighten up, i do not like people smacking a horse because they dont know how else to go about getting it to do what they want. This is where skill as a rider comes in, to find ways to get your horse to do something willingly rather than because he has been punished. :)
 
I agree a whip should be used for schooling purposes to back up the leg aides not punishment. Maybe some horses do need a reminder every now and then, but personally I find hitting the horse as punishment only serves to make the horse react in an even more negative manner...everyone has a different approach though I guess...
 
To the OP, what was your goal when you used your stick in that situation? I'm not having a go, I'm actually on my way to answering your question. ;)

Did you use it to back up a correct driving aid that he did not comply with? Does your horse clearly understand the driving aids when he's not over excited?

If the problem was over excitement (which can have many causes, including freshness) did you try any of the more traditional methods of getting some of his energy out, like longeing or having a quick canter around in forward seat or letting him power trot on a circle for a minute?

Does he understand what the stick means? To those of you who think horses inherently understand the stick, I dare you to get on a sharp horse for the very first time, when it's being backed, and hit it. I'll bet you dollars to donuts it won't trot quietly forward. ;) As mentioned you have to educate the horse to the use of the whip like everything else we teach them.

(The qualifier to that might be getting a very bolshy horse out of your space in an emergency situation - they read it like a kick. It shouldn't get to that stage but sometimes, if a horse has been allowed to get away with it, needs must.)

Did you hit him because you were frustrated and not feeling well? (You wouldn't be the first person!)

I got taught a good lesson by a good horse many moons ago. I was schooling and it was late and I was in a mood, getting frustrated he wouldn't do what I wanted (no doubt because I couldn't explain it properly or hadn't set him up for success). I could feel the red mist descending! Coming out of one corner I either kicked or hit him and honestly I don't really remember what happened next!! He clearly told me to get off in no uncertain terms and I deserved it! He was not a brat, I was being a brat!

Don't get me wrong, the stick is a useful aid and I expect horses to learn to accept it if it should be needed. There are some horses that really can't take it but for most, I do not tolerate a "no" to a reasonable aid. But if you wallop a horse out of the blue, you're going to pretty much get the reaction you got! :)

So don't dwell on it. Get your instructor to help you get him used to a dressage whip and to discuss the situations where using the stick to back up your leg might be appropriate. Otherwise, there's no need for concern.
 
My boy is a tad whip shy, I can't change it over in canter the proper way (for a dressage whip) and if I hit him behind the leg when he is backing off to a fence he will go off in a 45o angle away from the side I have hit him. So I tend to ride in spurs if I feel I need more oomph and only tap him on the shoulder with the short whip. He accepts the dressage whip behind the leg but that has more to do with the fact I don't have to take my hands off the reins. It does really upset him and I think he has been whipped hard in the past jumping, so I tend to use my voice and seat more now.
 
Stick to back up an aid.

Dizz will take a tap down a shoulder, which is useful when she's being an arfff and leading with a shoulder gateward :rolleyes:

She'll take a tap behind my leg when I haven't got the oomph/she's not off my leg quick enough.

Smack for 'naughtiness' and she'd put me in a ditch.

She's definitely been an arfff enough times - she's shown that it is not acceptable by me driving hard with seat and legs, resorting to Pony Club kick every now and then (if she can cope with being kicked by another horse, then my puny legs aren't going to do her any damage), and my voice ('Oi!!' being a particular favourite for its effectiveness).

Our horses will take a tap/smack from a stick as above, but none of them are scared of the whip. We can go from a smack to rubbing ears with the stick with no issues.


ETS: just remembered, I've smacked her once on the bum. She was in shock! I didn't risk it a second time and counted myself lucky not to have taken flying lessons.
 
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