Once a plod, always a plod?

ok another thoughts include
.....................transitions transitions transitions and a positive thought. you have to remember that they can feel a fly running over their backs so in theory "a slight squeeze for forward" is all you need!!. i was told it is better to ask once then ask again and if still no response an small flick of a schooling whip to back up the transition, rather than continually nagging riding school style. i don't mean whacking buy the way.

i would forget the school for the moment but school out hacking, loads of upward and down keep him guessing, 10 strides walk 10 strides trot then change to 10 Walk 20 trot. remember to keep a constant light contact on the reins so he has space to move into. also with his type he will possible need to increase his fitness

also have you thought about your balance and whether you have an independent seat, mary waneless "ride with your mind" might give you ideas as this might be another way the forward motion is blocked?

these are just random ideas and nothing is directed as "this must be the cause" and only meant as further suggestions for you to look into.

if you have a light contact forward moving horse that is responsive to the aids but at the same time will wait if all the others in the herd are throwing their pants out that is the best thing to aim for. you will have fun and actually be the envy of the others on their dumb bloods but they wont admit it!
 
Just want to point out that treeless saddles are not good for a horse's back and may well play a role in turning them into plods if they are uncomfortable going forwards. The same applies to riding bareback. A well-fitted saddle with a tree distributes the rider's weight much more evenly and ensures it is off the sensitive areas. And I'm not pulling this out of thin air... Several studies have demonstrated that riding bareback doubles the pressure on the horse's back compared to a treed saddle and a treeless saddle, though better, still distributes weight less effectively. Also, crucially, treeless saddles are often marketed as not needing regular checks and adjustments as a horse's shape changes - they definitely do. To get the most out of a treeless, it MUST be fitted to the individual horse and regularly adjusted or the little it does do will be negated. The very best option seems to be a flexible tree.

But OP, to answer your question, definitely not. A plod is not always going to be a plod. You need to re-sensitise them to the aids though and this can be time-consuming. If you want to work on that, get him lunging on voice commands using a schooling whip that you do not use on him. Use a schooling rather than lunge whip to avoid accidentally flicking him. If he doesn't respect the schooling whip smacked against the ground, just put a "flag" (i.e. tie a bit of cloth or an old light towel) on the end of it (for some horses you may need to "up" this to a plastic bag as they ignore the silent flag). Then get back in the saddle once he is reliable off a voice command and a click and don't use any leg. Gradually start using a brush on his side with your heel and couple it with voice and click - he'll be in front of your leg and bounding off in no time. This may take days or it may happen all at once but you want to take it slower to really cement the voice. Trying to make a horse forward by increasing the aid (backing up with a whip) just makes them less and less sensitive - you need to go entirely in the opposite direction and maintain consistency for a lasting result.
 
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My horse was the biggest plod when I got him, which was fine with me as I was very rusty. Once I was ready to move a bit the things that worked for him were:

Changing saddle to treeless and taking off shoes (he constantly tripped in shoes). Of course for some horses it may be the opposite (i.e. changing to treed saddle and putting on shoes / boots) but basically comfy in back and feet.

Weight loss - lots of it! He was fat when I got him. May not apply but worth mentioning.

Lessons with a good instructress. Some of the things she did with us were, basically as Barnacle said, using a schooling whip with flag on the end to back up my leg aid from the ground whenever it was ignored until horse would respond to slight squeeze. Working on me as my position would sometimes accidentally say "woah" to my horse, particularly if he responded enthusiastically which was obviously what I wanted to encourage not stop! The canter transition using the voice only from a slow trot (taught from the lunge initially). Lots of transitions (every 10 strides, 7 strides etc.) and some lateral work to engage the hind leg. Using the rein differently (more up and out and less back and down). Using a swishy schooling whip to generate a sound if he ignored my leg aid when she wasn't backing it up from the ground (swishing it or smacking my boot).

Although he is now forward going and responsive most of the time he can still do plod very effectively, as I saw when someone else rode him a little while ago. He is also prone to having a little tantrum when first asked to work in the school (stamps his feet and maybe has a little buck) before he settles down and works. So I think you can teach them not to plod but it doesn't necessarily create a work ethic in them, and if they've been doing it a long time they may revert back if allowed, particularly with someone new.
 
hi barnacle. so i would concur with you that a badly fitting saddle whether you are in a treed saddle, treeless or flexi treed badly effects the horse. the saddle must be fitted to the horse and rider and re-evaluated through out the year, just because it fitted in the winter doesn't mean it would fit in the summer. i am not trying to or going to start treed vs non treed saddle debate, every horse and rider combination is different some work well in different variations and combinations.

Ps to the OP don't forget to have fun! and don't forget that all of us on this board can only contemplate suggestions as have never met you and the pony in the flesh so to speak.
 
If you want to go to fun rides you can go alone, I have done before and always met people to ride with for a few miles here or there.
 
your horse is the splitting image of one of my friends horses who is very laid back irish cob part clydesdale sounds like he has the same temperament as well. My friend never got him to stage where he is was full of energy and fast or excited.

You can get them to be responsive to the leg but the speed or feeling or going fast is not there and you don't want to push them out of their natural rhythm as that may unbalance them.

When my friend wanted to canter out on a hack I used to have to go in front and canter off and she had to wait until my pony was out of sight and then ask her horse to canter and then he would otherwise he was very difficult to get going. She tried feeding competition mix and getting him fitter and all sorts but could not whizz him up, but he is a lovely safe horse.

She found it quite difficult to get him to walk march but I think his natural rhythm and speed is slow, whereas my pony is naturally fast. He also did not have a lot of stamina and it took longer to get him fit too. We did sponsored rides together and my pony would get more and more excited each time we went on one - he bucked me off the last time did one, whereas her horse remained very laid back.

Sometimes when I my pony gets excited cantering in company and bucks me off I think I would quite like a ploddy horse but then I like that my pony is forward going as well just not the bucking with excitement.
 
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Lots of replies - fab!!

Mrs G said:
as others have said, maybe you have one of those saintly, bomb proof horses that people would kill for!
Click to expand...

Haha! He's a wonderful boy, unfortunately a long way from bombproof though. He is a total big girl's blouse, so although he is very safe, he does do an awful lot of silly spooks!

milliepops said:
Do you have transport, OP? Perhaps there would be other people local to you that you could box to for exciting things? Perhaps via your local FB horsey groups? That's what I would try if I had a box of my own.
Click to expand...

No, no transport unfortunately :( It's on the list for next year, I hope. I'm working on other people we could collar :)

fattylumpkin said:
Lovely lovely boy!!!

We had a big changed when I switched yards and the hay I was giving her. New YO makes her own hay and had some nice stuff from midsummer with a high protein value, which went against my instincts as previously she'd been getting poor quality hay because of her weight, but when I swapped to new YO's nice hay she started dropping kilos nicely?? Maybe someone can explain that mystery to me! Feed wise she gets 2kg lucerne pellets that have added minerals - we were using Simple System feeds and really liked them, but I switched to a swedish company called Krafft in January and their pellets seem to be going down really well too. I add linseed oil and she has a fortified salt lick in her stable.

I have the hay analysis still in case that helps - for every kg it was 83% fiber, 69g crude protein (39g digestible protein), 8,4MJ energy, plus the normal minerals.
Click to expand...

Thank you :) That's interesting... though he was on half and half hay and haylage through winter, and even then we didn't pick up the pace!!

hollyandivy123 said:
ok another thoughts include
.....................transitions transitions transitions and a positive thought. you have to remember that they can feel a fly running over their backs so in theory "a slight squeeze for forward" is all you need!!. i was told it is better to ask once then ask again and if still no response an small flick of a schooling whip to back up the transition, rather than continually nagging riding school style. i don't mean whacking buy the way.

i would forget the school for the moment but school out hacking, loads of upward and down keep him guessing, 10 strides walk 10 strides trot then change to 10 Walk 20 trot. remember to keep a constant light contact on the reins so he has space to move into. also with his type he will possible need to increase his fitness

also have you thought about your balance and whether you have an independent seat, mary waneless "ride with your mind" might give you ideas as this might be another way the forward motion is blocked?

these are just random ideas and nothing is directed as "this must be the cause" and only meant as further suggestions for you to look into.

if you have a light contact forward moving horse that is responsive to the aids but at the same time will wait if all the others in the herd are throwing their pants out that is the best thing to aim for. you will have fun and actually be the envy of the others on their dumb bloods but they wont admit it!
Click to expand...

All worth noting, thank you! Contact is always light, and we work on plenty of transitions whenever he is in the school. I'll work on incorporating it a little more out hacking. Interestingly enough he will concentrate more and fight less when he is in the school on his own, he's always more difficult if there is another horse in there.

Barnacle said:
Just want to point out that treeless saddles are not good for a horse's back and may well play a role in turning them into plods if they are uncomfortable going forwards.
Click to expand...

But an ill fitting treed is even worse, and it's impossible to keep one fitting perfectly at his age where he's forever changing shape :) I've done an awful lot of research into saddles over the years, I went into Solutions fully informed. I'm 9.5st, so light enough that it shouldn't really be too much of an issue (especially on a 16.1hh Shire cross...). When he arrived (ridden treed), he had muscle wastage, and he launched backward every time he pre-empted somebody getting on him - whether that was from the ground or from a block. He's been treeless since he's been with me, his back has muscled up and looks worlds better, and he stands stock still for me to get on. He's happy in his saddle, I swear :)

SO1 said:
your horse is the splitting image of one of my friends horses who is very laid back irish cob part clydesdale sounds like he has the same temperament as well. My friend never got him to stage where he is was full of energy and fast or excited.

You can get them to be responsive to the leg but the speed or feeling or going fast is not there and you don't want to push them out of their natural rhythm as that may unbalance them.

When my friend wanted to canter out on a hack I used to have to go in front and canter off and she had to wait until my pony was out of sight and then ask her horse to canter and then he would otherwise he was very difficult to get going. She tried feeding competition mix and getting him fitter and all sorts but could not whizz him up, but he is a lovely safe horse.

She found it quite difficult to get him to walk march but I think his natural rhythm and speed is slow, whereas my pony is naturally fast. He also did not have a lot of stamina and it took longer to get him fit too. We did sponsored rides together and my pony would get more and more excited each time we went on one - he bucked me off the last time did one, whereas her horse remained very laid back.

Sometimes when I my pony gets excited cantering in company and bucks me off I think I would quite like a ploddy horse but then I like that my pony is forward going as well just not the bucking with excitement.
Click to expand...

That's interesting, thank you! He is capable of working himself up and getting into a canter or gallop (as long as the horse in front has energy), but it does seem to be the exception rather than the rule and only happens once in a blue moon. Perhaps it's just in the breeding!
 
My 14.2hh NF is now 22yo. Most of his life he has been horizontal. When I was getting him fit for the drift season (when we go colt hunting on the forest) he was exercised 2/3hrs of hard work every other day and schooled/hacked out inbetween. I fed him instant energy mix combined with red cell. He was still safe (ish) but much better off the leg.

He's now only lighly hacked out and happy to just plod along, although presently the tickle of the spring grass is having an adverse effect at times!!
 
Two more cents from my perspective...
I largely agree with the tips above, but IMO they only take you so far with a horse that's just not motivated. Teaching to go off the leg is not a one-time thing, it is an ongoing process. Unless you're happy to inflict pain (which I am not), you rely on your horse's startle instinct to back up your leg aids (with light whip taps, wipwop, instructor with lunge whip/stick with bag...) and it is very easy to desensitize the laid-back types and teach them that they don't have to respond to the leg aids until the "real" aid (aka back up aid) arrives. Or conversely, if your horse is a bit silly/spooky, the response you get might be forward, but also hollow/tense, which isn't the same as willingly forward. So it takes discipline not to fall back into nagging and to be consistent in your expectations (how much of a response is "good enough" from the leg, and at what point do you use a back up?), and to use the back up aid with enough intent that the horse would rather respond promptly the next time, but doesn't hollow/shoot off. Not always an easy line to tread, and it has been my experience (over the past 7 years with this type of horse) that I go through cycles, and have to really focus on leg aids again every couple of months. It helps to have a good instructor on the ground and to rotate through the back up aids every now and then so they don't get used to them. Having the instructor there to back up your leg aid can also be really helpful because it means you can remain still on top and maintain your contact while the horse is sent on. It's easy to end up in a place where the horse willingly moves off - but only when you throw away the contact to send him on properly.
This is where I come back to the motivation aspect - if your horses really hates what he's doing, you're in for an uphill battle. Another line to balance is between stopping while the going is good (to reward and motivate the horse), but also to push enough that you actually make progress. My gelding usually offers his best efforts on the first ask. If I stopped right there, he'd never have made any progress - building muscle means that sometimes it has to burn. But forever pushing and never letting up can be incredibly de-motivating.
I use stopping and standing (with a scratch on the withers) as a reward quite a lot. It is something my boy really appreciates, but he's also had to learn that stopping doesn't mean we're done. I also had a bit of a revelation at a training clinic, where I kept complaining that his upward transitions came always a step too late. The instructor said: why don't you ask a step earlier then? It sounds contradictory, but I actually get better upward transitions now that I allow a second or two delay before I expect the response. No, it's not as prompt as I'd like. But the transitions are actually quite decent after the small delay. Previously, I'd follow up much quicker with a back up aid, leading into that downward spiral of using the backup aids way too much (and desensitising), and my gelding getting more and more grumpy, because he could never seem to get it right. Allowing those few seconds means he gets a chance to do the right thing. I also chop and change things about a lot within sessions (poles, small jumps, obstacles) and try not to overdo the arena work (lesson once a week, otherwise hacking).
This is all quite specific to my gelding. But maybe some of it rings a bell and might be helpful.
 
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