One good beating....(opinions)

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jumpthemoon

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What're your opinions on this everyone?

I was talking to a friend of mine who I haven't spoken to in ages, and she has worked with horses for years, has loads of experience and has worked on some pretty top level yards. Her general opinion of how to deal with horses that don't tow the line was that you should beat the cr*p out of them - and this really surprised me.
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She said if a horse won't go forwards, get someone to beat it with a lungewhip 'til it does - if it rears, beat it with a lungewhip etc...and that most people are too soft on them.

Am I just too soft, or what? IMO if a horse doesn't want to do what you're asking, generally speaking either it is in pain of some sort, or you aren't asking correctly. Ok there is no helping some horses, but I was shocked that she had worked on such 'good' yards and used these kinds of methods. Surely, when the horses are sold on, if the person then doesn't beat them, they won't be able to do anything with them? I just don't understand it
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Am I just being 'soppy'?

Btw...she doesn't ride anymore as she thinks it's too dangerous!
 
I believe in being firm with my horses but would never ' beat the crap out of them '
If any of them are naughty they are told off , but I dont think I've ever had a horse so naughty I've had to consider such drastic measures tbh !
 
I think "beating" is way to extreme but a good crack with a whip every now and again can be vital to controlling/gaining respect off some horses!
 
I am most definately NOT of the opinion that a good beating sorts any horse out.

I have been lucky enough to be involved in (at the most basic of levels) the breaking in and starting of a few horses. They've never had to have a beating to understand what was required of them.....

My Thumper on the other hand obviously had one hell of a thrashing at some point in his life - and if I could I'd return the bloody favour!
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I think she should be ashamed of herself. If i saw her attack a horse with a lunge whip I would take it from her and give her a good beating with it. What a nutter.
I have never beat my 2 and never would. I believe in respect, I would hate my horses to fear me.
 
I don't beat my horses, actually it is incredibly rare that I would ever have cause to strike them in any fashion at all.....but what I will say is this; I have bought a number of horses from a particular person. I know he is VERY harsh with his horses, the last one I bought had pitchfork and whip marks all over it. ALL of the horses I have bought from him have been faultless.....actually they are verging on perfect. They don't freak, they have the most wonderful manners in the world, they do as they are told and they are an absolute pleasure to be around. They are very well bred horses; is this the reason for them being the way they are, or is it because of the way in which he treats them? I don't know - all I know is they are fabulous horses and they thrive on my kindness.
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I think she should be ashamed of herself. If i saw her attack a horse with a lunge whip I would take it from her and give her a good beating with it. What a nutter.
I have never beat my 2 and never would. I believe in respect, I would hate my horses to fear me.

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She didn't do the beating - she was told to sit on the horse! Hence she doesn't ride any more! I know she has worked on yards before where they rapped with metal poles and one guy beat his horse with a broom handle because it slipped out hunting and he fell off
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(she left that place after that)

It just amazes me that these people who are supposed to be professionals need to resort to hese methods in order to get a horse to work for them
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No wonder she thinks riding is too dangerous! If I was a horse and got beaten I would flip! I think it is unnecessary o beat the cr@p out of a horse. Personally I don't carry a whip, I might use one to encourage my leg aid, but certainly not to beat a horse with.

I saw a man whip his horse mercilessly because it refused at a show jumping event and I was disgusted that he at the very least didn't get spoken to severely. I feel it is very cowardly.
 
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My Thumper on the other hand obviously had one hell of a thrashing at some point in his life - and if I could I'd return the bloody favour!
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I know what you mean AM - I can't ride my boy with a whip, as he spends the whole time looking at it out of the corner of his eye and trying to get away from it. If he naps and I get off, he virtually collapses in a heap on the floor, like he's expecting a beating or something (although maybe sometimes he deserves a smack - I can't bring myself to do it)
 
You have to be firm but I would never beat a horse like this, if a horse savaged me it may be harshly told off. But if I was working the horse no amount of a beating is going to get it to respond to you. Most my horses have been beaten before me and some you only have to shout and they tremble - so beating is def not an option its more a case of give and take, get them on your side. Too many people are quick at acted too aggresively IMO - what does that teach a horse?
 
It doesnt suprise me. Years ago I worked at a 'top' eventing yard. On exercise one mare often napped and I was told on a couple of occasions to get behind it on my horse (whilst leading) and beat it with my whip... I never did as it seemed rather a dangerous practice to me.
 
I can carry a whip, and I can give him a tap - but found out to my regret that anything more (i.e slap) resulted in total panic. And if you raise your voice - gawd help you.

Bless him, he's not highly strung or nuerotic, just want's to please, and absolutely gets beside himself if he thinks he's in trouble.
 
Interesting one this... i think it all depends on the horse, i had a mare that used to rear and napp, sent her to an ex jockey and she did have one hell of a hiding, i wasnt brave enough to do it... it did work though. I always remember once talking to a person who deals excusively in nappers, and asked him how he sorted them, he just basically said you beat them until they go, but you have to be brave to take what they throw at you. One thing with horses though is when one horse wants to be dominent over another, they can be pretty savage to one another to get the respect they need.
 
Jim - I ride with a whip, and often need to give him a tap, he is one of lifes laid back creatures, laid back to the point he will fall asleep while walking almost, then fall over his legs. In that frame of mind a tap brings him back, legs don't.

Holly - has whip scars on her head, ears and bum. She is a softly softly gently kind of horse. Impecable manners, will do what is asked of her on the ground straight away, but fromm her past has issues that over 7 1/2 years we have only just scratched the surface on.

An exmple for both of them is mane pulling - Jim walks all over you, if I stand on my box and hold a schooling whip, when he does try to barge me, he gets tapped and stands still, she gets twitched beacuse she gets so upset but is angelic and happy to have it done with the twitch on.
 
I think there is something in this. As you say its about respect and it is one way of instilling respect in horses that can then go on to softer owners, often with very good manners and aware of a line of acceptable behaviour that they remember not to try and cross. That said, Monty Roberts has done so much good proving that the same degree of respect from a horse can be gained with no violence whatsoever. Its a shame some professionals are still keen to go for the 'one good beating' approach as a matter of course when there are other methods which are just as affective and much more humane to the horses. Also if this approach is applied to a sensitive horse it could easily ruin it for life.
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I agree with DaisyChain in a lot of ways, Lance used to nap extremely badly, and at first the only way you get him out of the yard was using 2 whips, so you could catch him whichever way he tried to nap. With him it was pure naughtiness, it worked though, he still naps when very fit, or when he thinks he can get away with it, but a good smack and firm riding gets him on, if you didnt do that, then he would get dangerous because he is the type of horse where if he thinks he has one over with you, will will use it against you.

He isnt scared of people at all, not at all headshy, scared of shouting etc, he is a very brave confident horse.
 
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the only way you get him out of the yard was using 2 whips

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Oh you closet Parelli fan!
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This is a contentious issue and there are bound to be lots of differing views, so here's mine:

The horses I have had from 3 and started from scratch would be mortified if I ever beat them. Generally they understand what I'm asking and oblige, and I always make sure I've been clear about that before I chastise them. I'm not saying I haven't smacked them ever, but my voice seems to be a more useful aid than my whip ever is, and a well-timed growl has got me out of several sticky situations. Some of the other horses I've worked with have not had the same respect or knowledge of where the line in the sand was drawn (ie. what was acceptable and unacceptable), so whilst training them it has been necessary to correct them with a smack or tap with the whip. I think the most vital thing when correcting a horse is that you make it really clear when they've been good (either by a pat or your voice), not just when they've been bad. I think the problem in professional yards comes from pressure to produce horses quickly - and lots of them - either for sale or for competition, therefore not having the time to spend on some that might need longer.
 
I don't have a problem with using a whip to back up your aids, or with giving them a slap when they've done something bad like bite etc. It's the full on beat the spirit out of them/beat it til you've 'won' approach I'm talking about
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Although I can see that it can work, I think it's sad that people who have spent their lives working with and training top quality horses haven't yet learnt a better way of 'training'
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Both mine napped badly when I got them but have considerably improved.
Because of this I carry a whip with both to back up my leg aids if necessary and have had to give my bolshy Welsh D a smack with it (behind my leg) (he's not scared and is just trying to see if he can get away wih being naughty).
Having worked with lots of rescue or nervous ponies, I find most respond better to voice and body language rather than trying to beat them into submission.
 
i think this is a very sad but unfortunatley, and i fear a too often used method!! I dread to think what goes on in some yards, but am sure it does!! I do belive in being fair/very consistant first, and firm with it, if they r to be told off wud need to b within 2 sec or theyve 4gotten!!!, ive never had any problems with this method and wud never 'beat a horse' they have no comprehension of y ur 'beating' them!!! Is it not that people are always wanting a quick 'fix' and sell on!! Then when lovely new owner comes along and the horse seems fine, begins its quirks again (coz it will, they r v clever) poor lovely new owner doesnt beat it, the horse becomes uncontrolable for her, sells it on, and so the poor horses life becomes a viscious circle?? just an opinion, and just an example of y people should not 'beat' em, and im sure there are many yards who dont,they send out good even temp and well produced horses and phew for them
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I have been known to take a whip to my youngster for napping and rearing.
But Im quick to praise when he goes forward also.

Take this last weekend, I get on, he whips round and then starts napping back to the yard.
I sat quietly and just waited for him to chill out and walk forward. He reared a couple of time and stamped his front feet in temper *rolls eyes*.
Then waltzed off into the arena as if nothing was wrong.
Following day, same thing happened.
Tuesday I ride him get on and walks calmly into the arena no hassle.

As soon as he goes forward he gets lots of praise. But when hes naughty he gets growled at or smacked for being a twat.
 
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Although I can see that it can work, I think it's sad that people who have spent their lives working with and training top quality horses haven't yet learnt a better way of 'training'
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It is sad, but maybe it's because that method has always got them the result they wanted. I think there are very few "bad" horses born, but making a horse do something it either has no aptitude/training/temperament for is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole, therefore you'll get opposition to what you're asking. At that point some will go straight to the whip to solve the problem and others will get to the end result with thought, patience and methodical training.
 
Is this purely a theory you have? Or something you have experienced? Because I have owned (and still do) many horses who have been severely beaten in their previous homes. I have to say, not one has ever become uncontrollable whilst in my kind and non-violent ownership. Every single one I've had who has been beaten previously, has been a model equine citizen for the rest of the time I have owned them....and the feedback from my buyers is that the horses have remained as such with them also. Mind you I don't sell them on as the gibbering wrecks they are on arrival, I do spend a lot of time making sure they are content with themselves and with human interaction.
 
That Snoops is a little tinker isn't he?
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Max used to do that: his knee-jerk reaction to anything he wasn't sure about was napping (and often his heart would be pounding as he was so nervous), so I would just sit there until he would go forward again. Using the whip just prompted a frenzy of bucking, rearing, spinning, obviously what he'd learned to do to get out of situations he didn't like. I can't remember the last time he did it though (hurrah!)
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Tinker - more of a stinker!

He was a naughty little git the other week, was out hacking with halfstep, Snoops decided he'd had enough and tried to nap home reared and spun on the road he didnt make girlie swat status that day
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He is def better if you just sit there quietly and just try and ignore him. However, you sort of have to know what moods he's in, if hes generally scared then i really do sit quiet but if hes being a pig and i 100% believe his actions could be dangerous he gets a short sharp reminder.

Mind you, I do wonder if his reason for being sucha girlie swat on tuesday was because the last day I rode him we jumped our first grid in 6 months lol
 
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