One good beating....(opinions)

Personally i dont use whips at all. Im not against people carrying whips but i am against beatings sorry. Ive picked up a few horses now after they have gone through a Beating to try to fix them. It hasnt worked but did make the horses worse hence why i picked them up cheaply.

All horses are different i hate relating to humans when it comes to horses but its the only way i can think of explaining. Some people can cope with being bullied others shut down or fight back. I think its the same with horses & the main reason why some people Beat & win & why sometimes when they Beat the horse goes mental & will try to kill.

Normally when the person who beats finds the latter happening the horse is got rid of quickly as the person lacks any kind of skill of being able to get the horse right without beating & bullying. Sorry it's just what ive witnessed.

All my horses have total respect & know not to push the boundries this was done without beating!! Its just good horsemanship to me & what i have been taught all my life.

ETA - Just read my post & im making myself out to be a saint, belive me im not but i have learned from mistakes thats all...
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St Bernard - that is not beating.........

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He was whipped and whipped to get him out of the yard on occasions, to some that would be beating?
 
I think the terminology used is too emotive.........what actually constitutes a 'beating'? Is it when the rider is almost too exhausted to raise their arm any more? Is it two or three swift cracks when the horse is napping badly? (Given a choice between being unable to leave the yard or administering said two or three good cracks I know what my choice would be......)
 
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I think the terminology used is too emotive.........what actually constitutes a 'beating'? Is it when the rider is almost too exhausted to raise their arm any more? Is it two or three swift cracks when the horse is napping badly? (Given a choice between being unable to leave the yard or administering said two or three good cracks I know what my choice would be......)

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I agree, the confusion arises when people decide what they see as beating.

I have seen horses after being naughty, put in a stable and chased round and whipped and whipped until they were a quivering wreck.

I have also seen nappy horses that have needed whipping and whipping just to get out of the yard, for up to an hour, both could be classed as beating?

Both horses were worked up and had been whipped and whipped.
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I guess the argument coes own to when it is right to whip/hit, and when it isnt.
 
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I think the terminology used is too emotive.........what actually constitutes a 'beating'? Is it when the rider is almost too exhausted to raise their arm any more? Is it two or three swift cracks when the horse is napping badly? (Given a choice between being unable to leave the yard or administering said two or three good cracks I know what my choice would be......)

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I think a Beating is when the animal is hit with a meant force from the whip. Ie a good crack not a guiding tap..
Would'nt it be nice to get a Napping horse out of the yard without resorting to that??

Everyone's idea to what they consitute as a beating will be different i suppose.
 
Well, I will smack a horse til it goes forward. It is rare that I need to smack them more than once, but in my 'crash test dummy' days, I remember a particularly stubborn chestnut Hannoverian which I was given to reschool. She had been broken and ridden away, but I rebroke her.
The first day on the lunge, she planted herself with a f*** you attitude and I had to smack her with the lunge whip for quite a few minutes before she would go forward, but did eventually. She was sound, healthy, and in only a lunge cavesson and boots, incidentally.
It was just her evasion...she tried planting a few more times, experimentally and each time she was sent forward with legs or whip if necessary. Then she accepted it, and was no problem.
I have to say I love the idea that if your horse didn't behave...it is the previous owner's fault...woooohoooo!
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I think a Beating is when the animal is hit with a meant force from the whip. Ie a good crack not a guiding tap..
Would'nt it be nice to get a Napping horse out of the yard without resorting to that??

Everyone's idea to what they consitute as a beating will be different i suppose.

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In that case Lance was regularly beaten.

I would be interested to know what else could have got him out of the yard though, it wasnt a confidence issue, he was a bone idle argumentative sod! Who had terrorized his previous owner and walked all over her.

Obviously hasnt affected his temperment at all as anyone who has met him will agree he is unflappable, not scared of anything, loves people, and will still, at 19yrs old, try to get one over on you.
 
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I think the terminology used is too emotive.........what actually constitutes a 'beating'? Is it when the rider is almost too exhausted to raise their arm any more? Is it two or three swift cracks when the horse is napping badly? (Given a choice between being unable to leave the yard or administering said two or three good cracks I know what my choice would be......)

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I think a Beating is when the animal is hit with a meant force from the whip. Ie a good crack not a guiding tap..
Would'nt it be nice to get your Napping horse out of the yard without resorting to that??

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Err none of mine nap...........I'm the idiot who gets called in when the bad behavior has been allowed to develop by riders who haven't been firm enough in the first place. I find I can get on ride firmly forward & quite often have no problems......don't even have to 'tap'. Sometimes I'll go to ride a naughty nappy horse & the bad behavior is so well established that two or three good cracks are required. That's not my fault.......not is it really the horses to be honest -it's learned behavior on their part.
If the aforementioned few good cracks don't do the trick then further & longer term re-education is required, not further chasetisement.
 
Just raising my voice will send my cob to behave.....he starts going all 'Licky ,chewy'........TBH people that use extreme methods of control,by whipping(and no I'm not talking a good smack to move a nappy horse on!)beating could be lacking confidence within them selves sadly! Alot of years ago I saw a mother at a show,where the daughter did a jumping class and the horse took some poles down,end result one upset daughter and a horse given a whipping by the Mother,where is the logic in that.......they where asked to leave the show ground,but I will never forget the look in their mares eyes.....I went with some friends to report the incident in,with other witness's that had seen this disgusting act!
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Well, I will smack a horse til it goes forward. It is rare that I need to smack them more than once, but in my 'crash test dummy' days, I remember a particularly stubborn chestnut Hannoverian which I was given to reschool. She had been broken and ridden away, but I rebroke her.
The first day on the lunge, she planted herself with a f*** you attitude and I had to smack her with the lunge whip for quite a few minutes before she would go forward, but did eventually. She was sound, healthy, and in only a lunge cavesson and boots, incidentally.
It was just her evasion...she tried planting a few more times, experimentally and each time she was sent forward with legs or whip if necessary. Then she accepted it, and was no problem.
I have to say I love the idea that if your horse didn't behave...it is the previous owner's fault...woooohoooo!
S
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Oh yes that sounds familiar!! I used to think of myself as a troubleshooter......trying to put right what others had done wrong!!
People do sometimes struggle with the idea that horses are sometimes just plain naughty & don't want to do as they're asked!!
 
A serious beating is something that a horse never ever forgets. to be honest a smack when they are naughty is okay but a serious beating is just not... I have bought a horse from a dealer who had got him across from Ireland and i have never ever met a horse so scared of whips, I have owned him for a year now and altho i can carry a whip its got to be a short one, If hes naughty and you just even raise your voice to give him a row he freaks as he thinks hes going to get a beating! Its shocking whats been done to my wee guy in the past, hes never been smacked since i have owned him, he just trys to hard to do everything right and god forbid he gets a fence wrong and runs out cause he freaks, they must have beat the S**t out of him.. Hes getting better thro time. So No.. I dont agree with beating, its shocking.. Would you beat your child cause it didnt understand or was naughty?????
 
i agree i think that beating a horse instead of solving problems can just lead to more long term problems, a new horse we have in has been whacked about the head and back so many times that he is terrified and even if you carry a brush to groom him in the stable without touching him with it he will start to rear and lash out, i would never beat a horse due to the awful consequences that it can lead to, and there is a stark difference between beating a bullying than just being firm.
 
We had a horse I was given to school who had been beaten with a plastic pole by the YO I worked for because it had napped..the only reason I stayed at that yard was so I could try to get those horses sold on to someone better than him. We had several reports of him and his daughter beating the sh*t out of ponies that were dealers there.

My job was to school on the horses to be sold. We had one who took me 6 months for a farrier to be able to get near her and to be able to bridle her without a fuss and she had been twitched by the ears when she was younger.

That said, I am not averse to giving my horse a good few whacks with a jumping whip if he starts his napping. It's all about knowing what is an encouraging kick up the bum and what is cruelly beating a horse for no reson. My horse lets you know when the whip is a waste of time - often the more you smack him, the more backwards he'll go so I just throw it on the floor and pony club kick until he moves!!
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If you need to hit a horse, you've already failed in every form of behavioural measure to teach it what it needs to know. I'd say if you're planning to his your horse in advance, you shouldn't have horses at all...

but that doesn't mean it isn't common. I've heard it too - but never from anyone for whom I had any respect...

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I think the difference is the motivation, beating a horse in anger and frustration is wrong. Smacking it when it needs disciplining is ok.

We needs to remember how horses behave in a herd environment. If a youngster misbehaves it will be disciplined by an older horse giving it a quick bite or kick to make it stop.

To some extent we need to replicate this in training, hence I would smack a horse with the flat of my hand if it bit me. If it refused to move forward I would flick it with the whip, if it still refused to move I would use the whip harder. The crucial thing is that you stop when it responds!!
 
No beating sorts any horse out, only thing it's likely to do is make it either really grumpy or very scared, neither of which are much use. I can't see the horse associating a 'good beating' with whatever it is perceived as the problem!
 
is something ive observed , saw horses come back and saw girls at shows having trouble with them. gr8 with the production of your horses and proves that there is no quick fix and these horses wud '(may)' need alot of time and how sad that they have been 'beaten' at all!
 
Well I have to say that while I don't LIKE seeing a horse get a good hiding, and sometimes its done out of sheer bad temper and frustration.BUT I knew a very nice girl who bought a horse that was like a hat rack with rain scald. Some good grub and tlc followed and it became a nightmare. Rearing and napping. Usual back,teeth,saddle checks were done. All clear. Horse becoming more dangerous. One day she gave the horse a GOOD hiding, raising lumps. Horse settled. To see him now you wouldn't ever think he had had so much as a naughty thought. He is doing well in riding club and has a good home. He could have easily ended up in a tin. My best horse came from a man who was harsh with his horses. He was a dream to handle and ride and appreciated my kindness.Finally, I heard from a very reputable source. i.e a groom who goes regularly to the international shows held in this country that there isa well known trainer ofa very well know showjumper who goes in and beats their very successful puisance horse up with a leather belt just before the class and it jumps its litle heart out!
 
Disagree with the 'if it doesn't go forwards, then beat it'
BUT I think there are times when horses need to be walloped. It's too dangerous to let them get away with ANYTHING that could cause damage to someone.....

e.g...
Someone we know, owns a stonking hunter...he fell behind having to close a gate - horse reared up (18hh...but size doesn't matter in terms of whether they should be punished or not) so he beat him with the hunt whip. Never did it again, no worse for wear, and the thought of rearing has never even entered his head again...and the horse doesn't even have half a brain....

Just my opinion....
 
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I can carry a whip, and I can give him a tap - but found out to my regret that anything more (i.e slap) resulted in total panic. And if you raise your voice - gawd help you.

Bless him, he's not highly strung or nuerotic, just want's to please, and absolutely gets beside himself if he thinks he's in trouble.

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Ditto - mine was incredibly headshy when she arrived. she certainly had a hell of a rough time in Ireland, from what her owners who got her over here told me....She gets terribly upset...Have only just been able to start carrying a whip as a back up...she'd get into an absolute tizz beforehand...
 
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The horses I have had from 3 and started from scratch would be mortified if I ever beat them. Generally they understand what I'm asking and oblige, and I always make sure I've been clear about that before I chastise them. I'm not saying I haven't smacked them ever, but my voice seems to be a more useful aid than my whip ever is, and a well-timed growl has got me out of several sticky situations. Some of the other horses I've worked with have not had the same respect or knowledge of where the line in the sand was drawn (ie. what was acceptable and unacceptable), so whilst training them it has been necessary to correct them with a smack or tap with the whip. I think the most vital thing when correcting a horse is that you make it really clear when they've been good (either by a pat or your voice), not just when they've been bad. I think the problem in professional yards comes from pressure to produce horses quickly - and lots of them - either for sale or for competition, therefore not having the time to spend on some that might need longer.

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DITTO VERY DITTO!!!!!
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When Regal Realm was a youngster you couldn't get him out of the yard. For days on end the solution was to put Lucinda Green on board with someone behind with a lunge whip & beat him up the road, they even had to drive behind him to ensure the lunge whip could be pulled out & used.

That's how I remember the description of how LG got to the bottom of his problems from an article long ago in H&H. According to most posters on this thread she was cruel, ignorant, asking the wrong questions of him the wrong way and guaranteed to ruin him for life.

I would love to hear explanations of how she should instead have gotten off & led him till he walked out nicely a few years later. Presumably she could have done that midway round Badminton too!
 
It is not something that I would advocate or attempt to consider! Even when my horse was at his most difficult and taking the pee and I got a firm but fair instructor in to take the edge off him and set him right...she did not use spurs, whip or beating. Patience and a firm approach worked very well and he improved no end and has been fine ever since.
So long as a horse understands what is expected and the boundarys are clear...they usually comply and those that do not (like mine did) can be persuaded by being made to work for their negative behaviour. Through repetition, they will soon learn that it is easier to do as asked!
Suppose it depends on the behaviour though...my lad was a bolshy git but not nasty or dangerous...just throwing his weight around because he could.
 
To put a horse in the stable - for bad behaviour, knocking poles, etc. - and hit it is unforgivable. The horse has no idea what it has done wrong and in it own mind some crazy human is intent on killing it.

I think smacking a nappy horse is OK. One or two cracks with a stick can often make all the difference. At least the horse knows you mean business.

But I keep hearing serious behavioural difficulties that again and again turn out to be pain related. Bucking horses that turn out to have sore hocks, or a broken rib, or a neck injury. A bolting pony whose saddle had started to pinch, sore teeth, bad feet, an injury following a fall. I think it is always best to give the horse the benefit of the doubt first.
 
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When Regal Realm was a youngster you couldn't get him out of the yard. For days on end the solution was to put Lucinda Green on board with someone behind with a lunge whip & beat him up the road, they even had to drive behind him to ensure the lunge whip could be pulled out & used.

That's how I remember the description of how LG got to the bottom of his problems from an article long ago in H&H. According to most posters on this thread she was cruel, ignorant, asking the wrong questions of him the wrong way and guaranteed to ruin him for life.

I would love to hear explanations of how she should instead have gotten off & led him till he walked out nicely a few years later. Presumably she could have done that midway round Badminton too!

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In that instance I'm sure the lunge whip was used as an aid to send him forwards when he wanted to spin round, and that he was praised when he did go forward, then reprimanded if he span round again. That's very different from beating him up the road.
 
I know where you're coming from orangehorse I really do......unfortunately by the time the vet, back person / saddle fitter / EDT / horse whisperer & faith healer have all been to see the animal a patern of bad behavior has been established. It's not a perfect world.......but although I have apparently been doing it wrong & have "already failed in every form of behavioural measure to teach it what it needs to know" (according to the post above) I can generally tell the difference between a frightened horse in pain & one thats taking the p**s out of it's loving owner.
Here's another example of a horse taking advantage. I got a call from a lady who had brought a horse that I had known for a while - the previous owner was one of my clipping customers. She called to tell me that the horse was impossible to clip & to ask if it had been sedated when I used to do it as it had been sold as quiet to clip. I went over with my clippers, sent her to make some tea & when she came back the job was half way to being done!! There was no question of me beating it........all I did was yank the leadrope & tell it stand still (loudly!!). He then stood like a rock munching his haynet in a very contented fashion. The woman was just so fluttery around him, & this wise old gelding knew exactly who was calling the shots!!
 
Horse is an incorrigible napper, & will nap & plant & spin round. So if he is hit with lunge whip when he won't go forwards or spins round (which is often) , how is that not beating it. Presumably reprimand in this instance is another word for hitting horse with lunge whip.
 
I am a huge fan of Lucinda & I seem to remember Village Gossip had a similar habit, which in his case was never quite eradicated.
I suspect that 95% of what the lunge whip did in these situations was threaten........& I also suspect that's what the OPs friend failed to mention in her description of how 'Top Yards' school their horses............
 
Zebedee I agree with you! I have a pony on loan as a companion, and it "had" to be sedated to have his teeth done. So I arranged for the dentist and vet, but the vet was late. The lady dentist just got started, and he did rear a couple of times, but by the time the vet arrived we were finished.

2 years on. She did the pony a week or so ago and the dentist and I were so busy chatting we ignored the pony - as she worked on him - and he stood as good as gold.

I do believe that there are many horses that take advantage of their owners, because they are not being firm enough, BUT there are still too many times when a horse is punished when it is only trying to tell its owner something.

My horse didn't want to pick up one of his front legs around Christmas time. I got cross with him, growled, slapped him on

t he shoulder. He snatched the foot away, got told off.
When I investigated further I discovered that he had an infection in his elbow, like mud fever, and there were several long cuts in his skin between his legs. So he was telling me something!
 
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