One of my thoughts on eventing safety.......

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Tnavas - Surely though if you stand off the fence you give the horse more time to gets its knees out of the way of the fence- from a spectator POV those I have seen that miss and stand off tend to come flying/scrabbling over sideways if they hit the fence and riders get thrown clear, whereas the ones that chip in get buried are the ones that tend to do the horrible handstands by breasting the fence as no space to get front out the way before back legs propell you over.

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I guess when an Olympic Bronze medalist tells you not to stand off the fences you accept what they say as gospel!
 
I do think that BE could get behind the Exo. Its a fantastic concept.
I cant remember the days before back protectors but im fairly sure they didnt come into full effect until BE/XC planners made them a mandatory. Now you dont even notice ur wearing one. The Exo im sure would be the same. Ive been looking to try one and cant find one newhere! More support is really needed - with feedback designs can be altered too.

On the "when to take off" stream: I guess im lucky as no1 has ever XCed my horse bar me. Every fence we have done together so i know all he has done, seen and been asked. He is 100% honest - i dont tell him how to jump, he is the one who needs to know. I dont place him or distract him. I put him on the line, show him the fence and ask (as in actually talk to him, i can get him to jump from voice as we have total trust) and he is in charge of where to take off and what to do with his legs. We dont jump big jumps but same basics apply - we look after each other. Yes not stopping is important when ur all about the win BUT there is the need for the horse to be able to think for itself and use its natural instinct.
 
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I agree with all the comments about forward riding, and the over technicality of higher level XC courses now, and I still have my concerns about the loss of the roads and tracks phase.

But another thing I have noticed, well here in Australia anyway, is that particularly at lower levels there are more people 'having a go' which is great but watching many of them ride round is frightning. They may have a textbook position, but they are not very good riders in terms of balance, leg strenght and seeing a stride at speed. I have had to many heart stopping moments where an out of balance rider has interfered with the horse who only made it over up right out of sheer honesty/athletisicm/ self preservation.
There have also been some very bad rider falls.
They are generally riders who have come up through riding schools and never been given the chance to develop the balance you get racing around bareback and messing about. I realise that H&S make teaching this very difficult but surely some one out there has to say something to these people before they have a bad fall.



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This is the same in the UK, but the fatalities are not happening at the lower levels, they are happening to good riders, with good results on good horses. I don't think lower level riders are a factor - although they can be scary to watch.
 
DieselDog - everytime I fence judge I wonder why I keep doing it - at times my nerves are so stressed as child after child races around the course jumping so fast that their ponies clip the fences with front and back legs. Recently we had one child hit the fence so hard when her pony stopped that she actually died! Medics rescusitated her and she was airlifted to hospital having seizures.

Some I think are totally out of control and just aiming at the fence, others seem to think that the only way to go is flat out.

I'd like to see the lower levels penalised for coming in under the time. Fitness levels of the ponies are very suspect too.
 
I agree with the speed issue - its not about going as fast as physically poss! there is a bracket to be aiming to be within and i feel going too fast should be penaliased. my last event there was times of 4mins for a course which was meant to be 5.26mins where the course was very hilly IMO thats taking your life into your own hands and riding dangerously. At this event tho it was ran with penalties for this which IMO is good as it teaches people about balanced & safe riding.

As for the "lower levels being scary to watch".... how low? Sorry this is a bug of mine - attacking people at lower levels - its not meant to be perfect when u first start out!! More to the point as this level rotation is not the big issue - its when the jumps reach a height and wide where little errors become major issues.
 
Slightly off subject, but I think it is almost impossible to define 'too fast' by looking at the time in which a course is completed.

For example, I have a nippy little TB who jumps and turns efficiently and covers the ground well. I ride her in a snaffle and hardly ever need to check her in front of a fence.

I used to ride a VERY large and strong half-bred who rushed at fences rather faster than I really felt safe. She would definitely have scared a few jump judges!

My TB is often one of the faster horses of the day at BE PN / Novice. The other horse used to clock up time penalties as I wasted so much time anchoring her and taking wide lines.

As horses vary so much, the permissible time bracket for a course needs to be fairly broad. I think the times and speeds allowed at BE Intro, PN and Novice level are fair. I have no experience with which to comment on the higher levels.
 
Ive actually had a rotational fall myself caused by my horse chipping in an extra stride and getting far to close to ever get over the fence. We were both unhurt and very very lucky.
 
At pony club level ponies/horses competing at Novice level at Area competitions ARE penalised for completing too fast, and I have found it has been great for the kids, because so many of them are used to competing at Hunter trials where speed is paramount so they have quite a shock when we actually show them the speed that is required for pony club horse trials, and that it is not flat out. They have to keep an even rhythm all the way round and it is a pleasure to watch.
 
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DieselDog - everytime I fence judge I wonder why I keep doing it - at times my nerves are so stressed as child after child races around the course jumping so fast that their ponies clip the fences with front and back legs. Recently we had one child hit the fence so hard when her pony stopped that she actually died! Medics rescusitated her and she was airlifted to hospital having seizures.

Some I think are totally out of control and just aiming at the fence, others seem to think that the only way to go is flat out.

I'd like to see the lower levels penalised for coming in under the time. Fitness levels of the ponies are very suspect too.

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You do get penalised for going too fast.
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Maybe at unaffliated they don't?

BTW I'm not attacking lower level riders as I am most definatley one, I was pointing out that they are the ones that aren't having tha accidents, even though it may look sometimes like they should be.
 
I do unaffliated - most events run like this where I am: where the places are give to those closest to the optimum time and then faults. So if ur clear - aiming for an optimum of 5mins and your time is 4 and the other persons is 4.90 they win and you second - they are closest to the optimum time.

I think its at affilated that you have to just be within a time limit - there is no penatiles for going too far within, its just for over. I could be wrong on this......
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And its simple engineering fact that if you hit something bigger when ur traveling faster (so speeds your are aiming to traveling at are quicker as you move up from what i can tell) there is more energy that needs to be transfered. You do need more energy to jump bigger not all about speed over the fence - energy and speed are not the same thing. The severe incidents are also more likely at the top end - the horse is not stopping (very rare), rider is going forward, horse is traveling fast, the jumping efforts are at the horses limit (the horse is really having to Jump, if you know what i mean) and there is little rider falls. So when it goes wrong the horse wont stop and the rider wont depart company as easily - they will be taken with the horse at a great force.

Sorry to go all engineering!
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I think its at affilated that you have to just be within a time limit - there is no penatiles for going too far within, its just for over. I could be wrong on this......
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With affliated if you are under by more than I think 15 seconds you start getting penalties. If there is a tie than the person closest to the time wins. If you are too fast you will be penalised.
 
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since last week I have been doing some research on British eventing fatalities to try to see how true it is that "we didn't used to have all these fatal falls in the old days".

I am not pretending that it is a comprehensive survey - but here are just a couple of quotes...

May 1999 –
This (Peta Beckett) was the 13th fatality at a British event since April 1982 - and the first since September 1997 when Irishman Sam Moore died from injuries sustained at the Blenheim Horse Trials.
The Independent
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_19990517/ai_n14232613/

re Burghley 2004
It is not the first time Burghley - traditionally one of the most testing championships on the international eventing calendar - has been overshadowed by tragedy.
There were also fatal falls in 1988 and 1999.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/3631014.stm

So, between April 1982 and Sept 1997 there were 12 fatalities - that is nearly 1 a year which is not that dissimilar from the current figures - and don't forget we have far more competitors now, so the percentage was higher then.
I certainly didn't realise that there had been 3 fatalities at Burghley in the last 20 years - that is a scary statistic!!

Perhaps, we have all become more health and safety conscious, perhaps the press coverage (no internet in the old days) was much sketchier than now, perhaps we all went hunting more and came across more deaths that way so it didn't seem quite as shocking. I have no idea!

I am not for a moment saying that it is OK to have approx 1 death a year. BE do seem to be trying (finally) on the safety front but I personally think that there needs to be a step change in course and fence design.
 
In NZ some Pony CLub areas have removed the time factor XC at Intro level but at all the other levels they are timed.

Trying to get some riders to comprehend that speed XC is not the purpose of the phase.
 
BE need to be held personally accountable for deaths..that is the only way the sport will change. If it takes some one to sue them then Im all for it.

BE need to make the body cage Compuslory. They need to make every fence frangible. Dont tell me they cant design each fence to take a pin..even tables. They cant take away the danger completely, however the technology is there and to not use it is tantamount to gross negligence. If they were a business, then the management would be up for corporate manslaughter. The HSE would have a field day.
 
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