one sided horse - shoulder lameness??

[cob&onion]

Before i start the physio is booked for tomorrow. Those who have been following my posts you will know about my cobs extreme one sided issues and poss hind limb lameness and the TI scans which brought up heat in stifle, hock, shoulder and saddle area
I know i won't know for sure until the physio has assessed her tomorrow but desperately hoping for the best!
Had my cob on the lunge yesterday and had an experienced lady look at her to see if she could see what i was seeing - stiffness on one side. Interestingly she thinks its coming from the shoulder as shes not stepping out (very short) in front making the hind look awkward as it can't reach under her as the fore leg isnt stepping out properly. I could see what she was saying as she does appear to be short in front on the lunge on the one rein - perhaps it is the shoulder? on the other rein she was perfectly sound.
Now, i know i will know alot more tomorrow after the physio has been BUT IF it IS that shoulder causing problems am i right in thinking its a hell of alot better than the lameness coming from a leg?! could it just be muscular? something the physio can work out over a few sessions and exercises and rest? or could it be something sinister? never had to deal with shoulder lameness before so info and experiences appreciated.
Am really clutching at straws here hoping for the best!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Have you looked at his shoulder from behind?, get someone to stand him up square for you, then get a stool put behind him so you can be taller and look down his back you will be able to see his shoulder blades and the muscles, quite often if a horse is not using that foreleg and coming through the muscle on that side will be smaller, how is the saddle fitting? If the saddle is tight in front it can restrict movement causing muscle loss, it could even be a foot problem on that side if his not coming through. Sorry just read your post back you have a mare not a he sorry!

 

[cob&onion]

Have you looked at his shoulder from behind?, get someone to stand him up square for you, then get a stool put behind him so you can be taller and look down his back you will be able to see his shoulder blades and the muscles, quite often if a horse is not using that foreleg and coming through the muscle on that side will be smaller, how is the saddle fitting? If the saddle is tight in front it can restrict movement causing muscle loss, it could even be a foot problem on that side if his not coming through. Sorry just read your post back you have a mare not a he sorry!

The saddle is all fine, though the fitter is coming out again week after next.
he does look evenly muscled both sides although Not done the shoulder looking thing with the stool.
This is a long standing issue so have a feeling it may take a while to put right

 

[Chester15]

I would be more inclined to go with something behind affecting his movement...you mention TI scans which brought up heat in stifle, hock, shoulder and saddle area. My boy had an on/off lameness for some time (many months in fact). When I say lame, he wasn't hoping, just not quite right and some days would be fine, other days, just looked a bit off. This always showed as a front end lameness in his off fore/shoulder, like he didn't want to bring his leg through properly and stretch his shoulder forwards fully. It turned out he has damage to his hind suspensories in both back legs which required an op and hence he wasn't moving properly. This was diagnosed via a bone scan which showed hot spots in both hocks and his back (the back issue being caused by the fact that he was moving awkwardly to compensate for his legs hurting). He's fine now, good as new but I would say get the hind issues investigated - sound so much like my horse was. Hope you get it worked out. x

 

[cob&onion]

I would be more inclined to go with something behind affecting his movement...you mention TI scans which brought up heat in stifle, hock, shoulder and saddle area. My boy had an on/off lameness for some time (many months in fact). When I say lame, he wasn't hoping, just not quite right and some days would be fine, other days, just looked a bit off. This always showed as a front end lameness in his off fore/shoulder, like he didn't want to bring his leg through properly and stretch his shoulder forwards fully. It turned out he has damage to his hind suspensories in both back legs which required an op and hence he wasn't moving properly. This was diagnosed via a bone scan which showed hot spots in both hocks and his back (the back issue being caused by the fact that he was moving awkwardly to compensate for his legs hurting). He's fine now, good as new but I would say get the hind issues investigated - sound so much like my horse was. Hope you get it worked out. x

Interesting - did your horse show one sidedness also? what where the symptoms? my mare is like that, just looks stiff on the one side, not lame just awkward?

 

[Wheels]

you've had the TI scans - next step for me would have been a vet rather than physio but as you already have her booked in I think it best to leave any conjecture until afterwards? It could still be hind end or back that is affecting the shoulder rather than the other way around

 

[cob&onion]

you've had the TI scans - next step for me would have been a vet rather than physio but as you already have her booked in I think it best to leave any conjecture until afterwards? It could still be hind end or back that is affecting the shoulder rather than the other way around

The vet referred me to the physio a little while back
After the physio has been it probably will be back to the vet - have been recommended to a vet who deals with lameness and is apparently excellent.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I would be more inclined to go with something behind affecting his movement...you mention TI scans which brought up heat in stifle, hock, shoulder and saddle area. My boy had an on/off lameness for some time (many months in fact). When I say lame, he wasn't hoping, just not quite right and some days would be fine, other days, just looked a bit off. This always showed as a front end lameness in his off fore/shoulder, like he didn't want to bring his leg through properly and stretch his shoulder forwards fully. It turned out he has damage to his hind suspensories in both back legs which required an op and hence he wasn't moving properly. This was diagnosed via a bone scan which showed hot spots in both hocks and his back (the back issue being caused by the fact that he was moving awkwardly to compensate for his legs hurting). He's fine now, good as new but I would say get the hind issues investigated - sound so much like my horse was. Hope you get it worked out. x

This really does sound similar to your horse worth checking out, you can get a very different look at your horses back and shoulder by making yourself taller and almost looking down over there back, my own physio showed me how to do it and many will look at a horse like this before a sesion, you can really see if the muscles are uneven.

 

[Chester15]

He was stiff on the right and heavier that side in the contact when being ridden, sometimes even tilting his head very slightly left, resulting in me trying to flex him back! It felt like his neck was stiff and he couldn't bend it towards the right properly. The bone scan only showed up the hot spots. These were then nerve blocked out to get a conclusive diagnosis of it being the suspensories. Interestingly it was his left hind which was much worse, but to ride/watch him, it looked/felt like the problem was in his right shoulder/fore leg. I had endless rounds of physio trying to get it right but ended up getting a third opinion from a new vet (previous 2, both from same practice couldn't work it out) when it seemed to be getting worse. Where abouts are you? Can recomend the vet who sorted us out. x

 

[Chester15]

Also when I watched my boy on the lunge he moved easier one way than he did the other and when the vet told me what he was really looking at it was obvious. One one rein, he moved more slowly, more reluctantly and I almost had to chase him to get him to move on properly. The rythm was also not regular but on the other he looked fine and moved forward freely with rythm. Hope that makes sense. Vet said to me it was either his suspensories or hock issue (ie spavin) and as you've already had hot spots show up in the hocks my money would be on them! x

 

[Wagtail]

Hind leg lameness can look like shoulder lameness(usually the diagonal shoulder). I have seen this on many occasions. Many people therefore home in on the shoulder because it is easier to spot, when really it is just a manifestation of the hind limb lameness. Sorry OP but even if it were just shoulder, these can be very slow injuries to heal, usually taking many months. But personally, having seen your videos I think the problem is coming from behind. Sometime there can be a secondary injury to the shoulder caused by the horse over loading the front to compensate for the weakness behind.

 

[cob&onion]

He was stiff on the right and heavier that side in the contact when being ridden, sometimes even tilting his head very slightly left, resulting in me trying to flex him back! It felt like his neck was stiff and he couldn't bend it towards the right properly. The bone scan only showed up the hot spots. These were then nerve blocked out to get a conclusive diagnosis of it being the suspensories. Interestingly it was his left hind which was much worse, but to ride/watch him, it looked/felt like the problem was in his right shoulder/fore leg. I had endless rounds of physio trying to get it right but ended up getting a third opinion from a new vet (previous 2, both from same practice couldn't work it out) when it seemed to be getting worse. Where abouts are you? Can recomend the vet who sorted us out. x

Exactly the same problems! Am in south shropshire.
So what was the prognosis and treatment? you mentioned horse is fine now?

Also when I watched my boy on the lunge he moved easier one way than he did the other and when the vet told me what he was really looking at it was obvious. One one rein, he moved more slowly, more reluctantly and I almost had to chase him to get him to move on properly. The rythm was also not regular but on the other he looked fine and moved forward freely with rythm. Hope that makes sense. Vet said to me it was either his suspensories or hock issue (ie spavin) and as you've already had hot spots show up in the hocks my money would be on them! x

Wow very similar! yes to the lunging being more forward on the one rein especially when asking for canter

Hind leg lameness can look like shoulder lameness(usually the diagonal shoulder). I have seen this on many occasions. Many people therefore home in on the shoulder because it is easier to spot, when really it is just a manifestation of the hind limb lameness. Sorry OP but even if it were just shoulder, these can be very slow injuries to heal, usually taking many months. But personally, having seen your videos I think the problem is coming from behind. Sometime there can be a secondary injury to the shoulder caused by the horse over loading the front to compensate for the weakness behind.

Yeah am still thinking hind - sounds very similar to horse above, infact i could have wrote it its so similar, suspensories perhaps then?

 

[Chester15]

I'm in Surrey so probably too far for vet. We had an Op in October 2012. Had that on a Monday, brought him home the Tuesday lunch time. Think he had about 2 weeks full box rest with dressings and bandages over the operation sites (which were tiny as key hole and now can't even see the scar) with bandages being changed every other day and really important to keep site clean and free from infection. Then, started walking out in hand literally up the drive and back to start but building up to an hour a day. I think by about 8/10 weeks post op vet told me to get on and walk under saddle as wouldn't do any harm, then 3 months almost to the day I got told to get back on and get him fit! Prognosis is pretty good to be honest with this op and usually brings a return to full work and range of activities you were doing. We had been doing a bit of eventing but he's 17 now and I don't want to risk breaking him so haven't jumped him since. Vet has said I can, but just don't want to! His flatwork however, is amazing! If it is something else going on in his hocks, ie spavins, then they usually inject dont they. Good luck

 

[cob&onion]

I'm in Surrey so probably too far for vet. We had an Op in October 2012. Had that on a Monday, brought him home the Tuesday lunch time. Think he had about 2 weeks full box rest with dressings and bandages over the operation sites (which were tiny as key hole and now can't even see the scar) with bandages being changed every other day and really important to keep site clean and free from infection. Then, started walking out in hand literally up the drive and back to start but building up to an hour a day. I think by about 8/10 weeks post op vet told me to get on and walk under saddle as wouldn't do any harm, then 3 months almost to the day I got told to get back on and get him fit! Prognosis is pretty good to be honest with this op and usually brings a return to full work and range of activities you were doing. We had been doing a bit of eventing but he's 17 now and I don't want to risk breaking him so haven't jumped him since. Vet has said I can, but just don't want to! His flatwork however, is amazing! If it is something else going on in his hocks, ie spavins, then they usually inject dont they. Good luck

Thanks for your reply. Really interesting and very helpful if it is the same thing, sounds very much like it TBH. Luckily i have her insured up to £5k for vets bills, fingers crossed its something that can be treated.
Also i have a suggestion now for the physio and vet, although i suppose the physio won't be much use if it is suspensorys?

After the op was the difference in the leaning/bending huge compared to how he was before?
My mare has been like this for a long time now, she's rising 6 and started like this when she was 4.5 approx a few months after being backed, she did have a year out too but came back the same

 

[Chester15]

The difference in him now is amazing. Immediately after the op though he actually looked worse and felt terrible when I first started riding him. BUT, the vet was very keen to stress that you must allow the full three months recovery for this op before making any judgement on whether or not it has worked and it is important to remember that the horse has to adjust to the new feelings in his legs and how to react to that, carry himself etc etc. He also has to forget any remembered pain and trust that it does not hurt again. My horse was also very weak from the operation as well, by which I mean the physical aspect of what is involved in that and recovering from it. If it is the suspensoires, you need to try and find out what caused the injury to them in the first place. With my boy, the vets discovered that his pedal bones were on a negative thus placing excessing strain on the whole of the backs of his legs, tendons, muscles etc and crushing the head of the suspensories. He now has wedge shoes behind to support this. Think my horse had it for about 3 years before we got a definitive diagnosis. It was really hard, he'd be not right so I would call the vet but when they came he looked sound. He had loads of scans, nerve blocks etc but no one could ever work out what it was and I was seriously thinking about having him PTS as he was obviosuly in pain, it appeared it was never going to get better, and no one knew why!!! Thank god I got another opinion. Think I maxed out my insurance! The stay in hospital including the op and everything was over £3000 but he was in for a week trying to find out what the issue was before he eventually had the op!

 

[cob&onion]

The difference in him now is amazing. Immediately after the op though he actually looked worse and felt terrible when I first started riding him. BUT, the vet was very keen to stress that you must allow the full three months recovery for this op before making any judgement on whether or not it has worked and it is important to remember that the horse has to adjust to the new feelings in his legs and how to react to that, carry himself etc etc. He also has to forget any remembered pain and trust that it does not hurt again. My horse was also very weak from the operation as well, by which I mean the physical aspect of what is involved in that and recovering from it. If it is the suspensoires, you need to try and find out what caused the injury to them in the first place. With my boy, the vets discovered that his pedal bones were on a negative thus placing excessing strain on the whole of the backs of his legs, tendons, muscles etc and crushing the head of the suspensories. He now has wedge shoes behind to support this. Think my horse had it for about 3 years before we got a definitive diagnosis. It was really hard, he'd be not right so I would call the vet but when they came he looked sound. He had loads of scans, nerve blocks etc but no one could ever work out what it was and I was seriously thinking about having him PTS as he was obviosuly in pain, it appeared it was never going to get better, and no one knew why!!! Thank god I got another opinion. Think I maxed out my insurance! The stay in hospital including the op and everything was over £3000 but he was in for a week trying to find out what the issue was before he eventually had the op!

At least if it is this then it sounds treatable. Will speak to the physio and mention it to her and see what she thinks.