Ongoing management of horse with stifle issue - Chondromalacia

Tash88

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Hi - I'll try and keep this brief but I'm in two minds about moving my horse to a new yard and I'm v worried about making the wrong decision, as I have limited experience with stifle issues and ongoing lameness/rehab.

My horse had an arthroscopy in September 2019 that was followed by an initial box rest then a 7 month period of small paddock rest. As this was during the winter he was turned out in an all-weather paddock to avoid slipping in mud etc. The surface is quite gravelley, like soft road planings. The vet was happy with this.

He is now doing well and vet has said he can build up to cantering and schooling normally. He had steroid injections into the L and R stifles before starting the gradual fittening programme and the vet came to check on him every 5 weeks before walking under saddle and then trotting. All has seemingly gone well. Even though he could be going in the school more, I've decided that we will primarily be hacking now as it is better for him and he enjoys it more. My priority is to keep him as sound as possible for as long as possible and if that means we are happy hackers then so be it, even though he was intended to be my competition horse. I just want him to be healthy and happy.

This comes to my decision - the tracks near to my current yard are generally quite hard and stony & uneven in places. There is limited chance to trot (only really suitable if it has been raining for a prolonged period) and it wouldn't be sensible to canter on them at all. Therefore when I hack before work, and I only have about 45 mins to do a 'loop', we are mainly walking. This is okay for now but I worry about the long term disadvantage to his joints. Even when we go for longer hacks the ground isn't amazing and I don't know where I'd be able to canter. Am I right in thinking that he would be better on a softer track, more even but possibly a bit muddy in the winter? I went to see a yard that offers this yesterday, and had a walk around this loop (I already know the hacks further afield that I'd do at the weekends probably). It won't be boggy, just wet I think. And in the spring/summer it would be lovely. It is also more even.

In terms of turnout - at the moment he is turned out individually and the paddocks are still quite small. It reduces the chance of injury of course, but in my heart of hearts I like horses to be turned out in groups, as it is more natural for them and they are happier. Where he is now the YO is careful with the winter grazing and so he won't go out if it is raining and the ground is going to get churned up. I am hoping that he will be able to go out throughout the winter (at the moment he is in the paddock for a few hours in the morning then the previous all weather overnight), but I can't be sure. With the yard I went to see yesterday, he would be turned out all day from 8am-3pm approx. in a sensible gelding herd with about 8 others. The field looks large enough and the fencing is secure. I have been told by the YO that it gets a bit muddy in the gateways during the winter but it isn't too bad.

So what I'm asking is, if any of you have horses with long term soundness issues that have to be monitored and managed like my horse, are they turned out in groups in a field all year round? And would you rather hack them on softer tracks? I just want to do what is best for my horse in the long term - his mental and physical wellbeing. I think he would be okay in a sensible herd - he lived out with other geldings with his previous owner and was okay, however bullied a bit by the others from what I have been told. That was three years ago though, and he seems to have matured since then (better to handle, more patient etc.). He seems okay with other horses next to him, but at the moment he is on his own and I do think he wants company. I'm just feeling quite conflicted and want to make the right decision for him.

Many thanks, Tash x
 

Runaground

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Hi, sorry you are having this problem with your horse. My mare has exactly the same.

As far as I'm concerned I think she (any horse actually) is better out as much as possible with a herd and she lives out 24/7 and has done since the small paddock restriction was lifted by the vet. I know it's scary when you've been so controlled and careful, but, once work is established under saddle my vet said to treat her like any other horse as far as turnout is concerned. In the really muddy patches around the hay feeder she does go very carefully/finds it a bit uncomfortable, but, only in the deep area the rest of the field is free draining so it's not a problem.

The hacking where you are seems rather limited and I'd be inclined to find somewhere with better as you will want to see if he copes with trot and canter at some point. Again I'm lucky that I have good private off road hacking. As far as soft being better than hard I disagree and so does my girl, she moves copes much better on firm (not rock hard obviously) ground and can't handle soft. I should add at this point sadly she never made it in ridden work even after all the rehab injections etc. not even for walking hacks, but, for a while was ok enough to know what she found easier/harder (ps. very hilly here which she struggled with). I now have a very beautiful, happy grass muncher living out with her herd. I hope you have more success.
 

Tash88

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Hi - thank you for the reply and I'm sorry to hear that your mare has been retired, but pleased that she is happy. It is such a worrying diagnosis and I don't know what the future will hold for my horse, just trying to stay positive.

I haven't ridden enough on soft ground to know whether my horse prefers it or not, but I do worry about the long term concussive effects of really hard and uneven ground. And it's impossible to get away from hills where I am, slopes and steeper ones. I know hillwork is good for them and I kept it to a minimum at the beginning (until my vet said I could introduce proper hills), but again I want to have a choice. When I say soft I don't mean boggy (hopefully), but like tracks you'd find in a forest for walking, and I think there are also some sandy tracks. I do think my horse finds softer tracks more comfortable, but that could be because they are less slippery; before he was diagnosed and treated he struggled going downhill but finds it much easier and is more balanced now. He is quite hard on his shoes and does tend to slip more when he is due to be shod.

That's reassuring that your vet said your mare could go out with others, mine said he could have 'normal turnout' but knowing that it is naturally quite restricted where I am. I have emailed her for her opinion on a possible yard move but she hasn't come back to me yet.
 

Annagain

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I wouldn't know about soft v hard ground but the increased turnout and group turnout would be the clincher for me. As much turnout as possible is the one thing I won't compromise on and being able to add "in a group" to that sentence would be the ideal situation. Introduce him to the herd slowly - adding one horse at a time if you can so he doesn't get overwhelmed. Work with the new yard as they'll know the other horses. My old man is always the first to go out with a new horse as he's a lovely mix of interested but non threatening at the same time as not being a total pushover but my old share horse is the last to go out as he's vile to new horses. After years of finessing (with 95% of the herd never changing) we know the exact order to put them out The only thing I'd say is leave your current yard on good terms in case it doesn't work out and you need the individual turnout.
 

ester

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I think if you have a mix of tracks it is ideal. One of the useful things of my wilts location was that there were some tracks in the woods that would stay soft in the driest bit of summer (but you wouldn't use them in winter) and some semi-hard tracks you could canter along the edge of in winter. The reason I didn't move mine to the yard I was riding for someone else at was most of their tracks were hard and stoney, he was barefoot and it just wasn't quite what we needed.

Additional sensible mooching in the field is rarely a bad idea.
 

gunnergundog

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My gelding that had torn meniscii in both stifles couldn't cope with mud at all; he was much better if he was on top of the ground. Consequently, he now lives in Sussex on chalky soil as opposed to being on Warwickshire clay.
 

Tash88

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Thank you all - definitely things to consider. I really want to see my horse happy in a settled group. My retired horse is and it is lovely, unfortunately this herd would be too large for the horse I'm talking about and it gets far too muddy. I think a group of about 8 would be ideal.

@ester yes a mixture of tracks would be ideal!

@gunnergundog Thank you for that input, really good to know.

I am so torn really - basically I think it's about what is kind of good for my horse but there are the unknowns regarding how muddy the fields actually get (have been told it's just the gateways but I'm pretty sure it's on clay so not ideal - this is from the geology survey - "Underlain by Claygate Member Sand, Silt and Clay, and London Clay Formation Clay and Silt solid geology.")

I thought softer ground would be better and less concussive in the long term, but maybe not.

Moving would definitely be better for me as I'd LOVE to go DIY again, which I can definitely do as I'm working from home for the foreseeable, I do a lot of the jobs now anyway and was on DIY before I moved to part livery as I was travelling a lot for work (in a different job now). I'd also save a fortune and my horse would be half the distance away from me (15-20 mins as opposed to 30 mins to over an hour). There would also hopefully be more people to hack out with as that is getting more limited where I am now unfortunately.

But my personal reasons for moving would be nothing but selfish if it wasn't right for my horse, who has to come first. Feeling rather conflicted!
 

ester

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Oh they will throw that back at you anyway, I shipped mine back to the flats of somerset due to his annular ligaments when I was in Wilts then subsequently to cambridge, 4 weeks later he had some funky liver thing going on and I was like I moved you so we could look after you better not for this to happen (while traipsing the field looking for plants!)

Will you have road hacking from the new place too?
 

Tash88

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The 40 min loop is off road, well a tiny bit of roadwork. To go further afield at the weekend would be a bit of roadwork but nothing major. I used to be in the area and I don't remember the ground being really boggy, there were some places we wouldn't go in the winter but it wasn't really limited.

Where I am now there is minimal roadwork, it's just the tracks are quite hard and stony, with some that are like roads. I wouldn't want to use them if my horse had a foot-related lameness I don't think, and friends have had problems with it if their horses have had foot issues.
 

Tash88

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PS I hope your horse has recovered from his liver issues now! I don't know if I can cope with much more after the last 18 months and I am really enjoying my horse now, just want it to be right for us both now the rehab part is largely over :)
 

ester

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lol yup went again pretty quickly (about 4 years ago) and been on daily bute the last 18 months (he's old) and on recurrence, horses are just weird!

I was just wondering if it did get boggy whether you had roads as an alternative.
 

ihatework

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I’d come from this as a quality of life angle. I’m not sure little individual paddocks are really ideal for a horse who physically can’t do lots of exercise - for a horse who has got a life ahead of him of light exercise only it must be better for him to have better turnout in a herd.

As for exercise, generally the better they work and muscle the sounder they are overall. Is it out of the question to do a little bit of schooling on top of the hacking?
 

Tash88

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Thank you both.

Yes @ester I would have some roadwork as an alternative if I fancied it, I know the area fairly well.

@ihatework I know what you mean, I would like him to be out in a herd but I'd be nervous about it. I think he would like it as well, although he might be a bit 'bull in a china shop' at the beginning. I just don't want the increased injury/joint strain risk, but then horses can injure themselves on fencing between individual paddocks. As I say, my retired horse is in a lovely, settled gelding herd and (touch wood), the horses are sound and happy, and there is rarely a serious injury. In terms of schooling, I do lightly school him twice a week max, the vet said I could do this (and probably more). I only do about 25 mins but he works reasonably correctly for that time, lots of strengthening exercises too. I must say he is muscling up really well, his vet and the lady who gives him Bowen therapy both said that recently. He is looking great... and getting his saddle checked in a couple of weeks as he's definitely changed shape :)
 

TotalMadgeness

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I have two horses with soundness issues but I keep them at home so can manage their routine. Connie has malformed stifles so he is very carefully worked - preferably hacks in walk but we can only manage these at weekends (in winter) and even then only in reasonable weather. So his other work consists of loose schooling in bum bands and I usually incorporate a couple of raised poles in walk then trot to encourage him to lift his hindlegs. He may have one or two flatwork sessions a week under saddle but to be fair he struggles with this especially canter on the short sides of the school. He is much better in a larger school but I have to make do with what I have. His hacking is on gravel tracks with hill work and the tracks are very uneven in places. He walks carefully over the tracks and I always let him go at his own pace. I noticed he prefers to walk over softer ground if he can but sadly we don't have a lot of that on our hacks. He is never trotted on the road or tracks. He is turned out in his own strip next to my other horse for the day then in at night. He's in his own strip because he is a nibbler and would chew my other horses rugs to shreds. Since diagnosis a few years ago he's had his stifles medicated twice a year and this seems to keep him sound (along with the routine/work). He will never be the dressage superstar I hoped he'd be but as long as he's comfortable I'm happy. He is now in a position where he can do a lovely Intro test (high 60's low 70's) and he is great at Trec arena events too so its not all doom and gloom.
 

Tash88

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Thank you @TotalMadgeness - I wish I could keep mine at home! Mine has slightly malformed stifles as well, so this will always be an issue for him sadly.

Interesting that yours prefers softer ground, I think mine does but I can't be sure as like I said earlier there isn't enough softer ground to compare.

What is your horse's diagnosis if you don't mind me asking - does he have chondromalacia or a cartilage problem as well? Good to hear you are keeping him sound, and you're a bit further along the road than I am :)
 
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