Only ever going to be an average rider - sigh.

coffeeandabagel

coffeeandabagel

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OK, so I know as far as statistics go most of us are average, but why, even with lots of lessons, and more or less willing horses and admittedly a slightly used body, arent I getting better? Dressage scores are not improving, jumping can still look haphazard and XC slow. I thought if I worked hard I would be doing better and I am not.I dont want to sound like a spoilt brat and its not about winning. Its about being able to get the best out of a horse, enabling them to do what I know they can do with other people. I do so many things wrong! Hands, leg, seat, shoulders, looking down, elbows. Always something!
 
coffeeandabagel said:
OK, so I know as far as statistics go most of us are average, but why, even with lots of lessons, and more or less willing horses and admittedly a slightly used body, arent I getting better? Dressage scores are not improving, jumping can still look haphazard and XC slow. I thought if I worked hard I would be doing better and I am not.I dont want to sound like a spoilt brat and its not about winning. Its about being able to get the best out of a horse, enabling them to do what I know they can do with other people. I do so many things wrong! Hands, leg, seat, shoulders, looking down, elbows. Always something!
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Perhaps it's time for a new instructor/approach? If nothing is changing with respect to the scores you are getting, perhaps some things need to change?
 
It depends what you define average as. It requires a vast amount of statistics to define it ;)

If you are not happy then you work harder. Firstly you need to decide what your goals are. Then you need to speak to someone who is experienced, who you trust and has achieved what you want to achieve. This can be a trainer, friend etc. Have a frank conversation and plot out what you need to do and how you are going to do it. Detail is the key. Successful riders are those who have thought about every little detail and worked hard to make it happen.

I have very little money but still work hard and make my money work hard for me. I video as much as I can, I share lessons with trainers I love, I organise clinics in order to get group lessons with trainers I love, I watch hours of footage, read endless articles in books, magazine and online, watch riders I admire in person and online, I even research things that interest me and write the odd article.

Use your desire to improve in a positive way rather than letting it hinder you. We all have massive hurdles to overcome in riding and improving as amateurs but we can only try our best, work hard and get the best training you can afford.
 
I know 2 very average riders - but they work so hard, they have lessons, they train hard after work, they put lots and lots of effort in and you know what they both do really well. You got to be smart about what you spend your money and time on. If what you are doing now doesn't work change and be prepared to listen and act on some home truths.
 
LEC said:
If you are not happy then you work harder. Firstly you need to decide what your goals are. Then you need to speak to someone who is experienced, who you trust and has achieved what you want to achieve. This can be a trainer, friend etc. Have a frank conversation and plot out what you need to do and how you are going to do it. Detail is the key. Successful riders are those who have thought about every little detail and worked hard to make it happen. Use your desire to improve in a positive way rather than letting it hinder you. We all have massive hurdles to overcome in riding and improving as amateurs but we can only try our best, work hard and get the best training you can afford.
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I think the goals thing is my weakness. I have three regular instructors - one for flatwork with each horse and one for group jumping lessons. They all give me the same feedback but in different ways which is satisfying in a way since I know its right if they all say my elbows are fixed, then they are! And I like the ideas they have of ways to tell me why its not good and how to change. But I feel they are still having to say the same things a year later and I really dont want to say its my age! Maybe its winter bringing me down too.Will work on some mid term goals - maybe one in each discipline - and some steps towards them. Its just sometimes too much to keep positive though
 
I used to feel like this. I had a break from horses for 4 years before I bought my mare. It was almost like learning to ride again except I had more bad habits!

For the first year and a half my mare and I made little to no improvement. I think this was due to a combination of factors - livery yard, my attitude (negativity/self esteem), not pushing myself to my limits, and a lack of knowledgable instructors. I paid a fortune for lessons but there was marginal improvement.

After a year and a half I moved to livery with my old instructor. From then I have went from strength to strength. My riding, my attitude and my environment are drastically different from when I first got my mare.

In hindsight, I perceive a lot of it had and still has to do with instructors as there are not enough of the good ones. Many are too quick to blame the horse for doing what your asking when 9 times out of 10 it is us riders that are fault whether it be because they are confused at what we are asking them to do or we are physically not allowing the horse to do what we are asking. Not enough teach you how to control your seat, how to sit light and work through your toes/heels/knees etc. I've seen various instructors teaching clients to steer by using their hands instead of using your weight and your own position so that you are not only in control of the front end of the horse but also the middle and back. That way you can start to influence the horses balance and move the energy to wherever you want it to go.

I've learnt more in these past two years from than I have done my whole life. It is incredible how oblivious I was to my own negativity about myself and my ability. I think the environment you are in influences your attitude massively. I was really unhappy at my previous yard and it affected me in more ways than I thought.

I'm definitely no pro, but I feel I am starting to understand now! As a result, I am more confident in my ability and most importantly, I am really happy and content!

I am sure you will figure things out OP, good luck x
 
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I accepted that a long time ago. Instead of trying to be a world beater, I try to be the best that I can. I get as many lessons as I can afford, both with my regular instructor and with whoever is doing clinics in my area!! I get regular lessons both with my PC CI and a dressage rider, get monthly ones with a dressage instructor who has experience with ex-racers, monthly ones with a show jumper, and try to get to a couple ROR clinics per year with an eventer with ex-racer experience. Plus try and get to RC training and PC rallies as often as I can!

I also try not to think about how I'll never get round a 4* event, and instead plan vaguely realistically with short term, mid term and long term goals. For example, my long term goal is to get to a 1* - I feel like it could happen if I was lucky/worked hard/got rich/found the right horse. My mid-term goal is to try and qualify for Grassroots - current one could do that in a couple years if we both work hard and improve. Short term goals are to get him out doing unaff dressage and sj over the winter, to a few hunter paces in the spring, and actually get him eventing unaff next summer, hopefully to a BE80 by the end of next summer. Looking at it that way, it's totally do-able.

So you just have to have a range of goals, and lots of hard work to improve to meet those goals. And yes most of us will only be average, but there are lots of PBs to meet, lots of lower level things to achieve and win, and why not aim to be the best average you can be?
 
Wolves said:
It was almost like learning to ride again except I had more bad habits!. Many are too quick to blame the horse for doing what your asking when 9 times out of 10 it is us riders that are fault whether it be because they are confused at what we are asking them to do or we are physically not allowing the horse to do what we are asking. Not enough teach you how to control your seat, how to sit light and work through your toes/heels/knees etc. I've seen various instructors teaching clients to steer by using their hands instead of using your weight and your own position so that you are not only in control of the front end of the horse but also the middle and back. That way you can start to influence the horses balance and move the energy to wherever you want it to go.
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I didnt have lessons as a child so proper riding was all new to me and when I restarted a few years ago I didnt plan on eventing even at 80cm - and dressage was a word I had never used! So yes doing what I am doing is a step forward from there. I think I am at that really hard stage of learning - You know what you dont know. - Conscious incompetence!Before I was blissfully ignorant, now I know more about what I want to do but not how to do it. And yes really worry about me being the limiting factor in how the horse goes. I do have two classically focused intructors so I am working very hard on seat, core, and my position. I think its a also a confidence thing - I have posted before about hating schooling - it all goes back to not believeing I am good enough for the horse and just confusing it.
 
All good advice but I would qualify it by saying "working harder" only works if you are working the right way on the right things. I meet quite a few riders who are confused and upset that they/their horses are not improving despite their best efforts when, actually, they are frustrating themselves and their horses by working too hard at the wrong things. This is especially true if you have limited time and resources so you really have to make what you do count.

It also depends on who/what you are using as a yard stick. If you are comparing yourself to someone who rides half a dozen horses every day under top class instruction then, I'm sorry, but you are going to feel inadequate. (Although, to be fair, that's not always the case which is pretty mystifying!) Luckily, for most amateurs, they only have to ride their one or two horses well, which is generally a much easier path.

I was talking about this with a student today, as she has taken some things we've been working on and run with them - as you often do when you're doing new things - and gone a bit too far the other way now. All good, we turned the boat around and that is how you learn. But the dirty little secret is many, even most, top riders are actually a bit on the lazy side - they want to get the best results with the least work and they are happy when they get what they want, they don't go looking for trouble. This dovetails nicely with horses who, as herbivores, are all about burning the minimum calories to get the job done. Don't confuse discipline and attention to detail with sheer effort. Doing the right thing a few times is much more productive for all concerned than banging on for ages, getting tired and slipping back into bad habits. (This applies to horses too - there is a diminishing return for repetition.)

All that said, I would agree that you could probably do with finding some new instruction. I don't really recommend with chopping and changing and going to a bunch of different people but you might have to try some different options to find out what works for you. Personally, of you're feeling a bit shaky, I'd say find someone who can sit on your horse and SHOW you what it possible and then tell you how you will learn to produce it but someone who teaches you well is the most important thing.
 
Following on from TS post - have you had a blunt conversation with your trainers about this issue? Sometimes it requires a detailed look at the problem because in a group jumping lesson detail will often be brushed over for instance.
 
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coffeeandabagel said:
I didnt have lessons as a child so proper riding was all new to me and when I restarted a few years ago I didnt plan on eventing even at 80cm - and dressage was a word I had never used! So yes doing what I am doing is a step forward from there. I think I am at that really hard stage of learning - You know what you dont know. - Conscious incompetence!Before I was blissfully ignorant, now I know more about what I want to do but not how to do it. And yes really worry about me being the limiting factor in how the horse goes. I do have two classically focused intructors so I am working very hard on seat, core, and my position. I think its a also a confidence thing - I have posted before about hating schooling - it all goes back to not believeing I am good enough for the horse and just confusing it.
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You really shouldn't beat yourself up so much, I know it's easier said than done! I am notorious for this, I really am my own worst critic. A friend recommended a book called 'Embracing Your Inner Critic' by Hal and Sidra Stone and it really made me see things from a different perspective. It's really interesting.

Also, you may have improved more than you think. I think it is hard to judge ourselves how far we have improved as you don't tend to notice when you are riding everyday. Have you thought about video recording your lessons or an occasional schooling session? That way you not only can you see for yourself but also track your progress, refer back if you forget something in a lesson etc.

Have you thought about trying different instructors to see if that makes any difference? You might benefit more from an instructor who is equally as qualified etc but uses different methods.
 
Maybe 3 is too many? Trouble is I love the most classical of them, but she cant ride anymore, the other flatwork instructor is less experienced but is still training so has lots of new ideas and can and does ride which ever horse I ask her to. The group lesson instructor has seen me at ODE, CT competitions and riding club camp etc so maybe has the best overall view of my riding though. Will start with talking to her I think.thanks guys, you have given me stuff to think about. Work smarter not just harder. Have clear goals. be honest to instructors and ask for some honesty back.
 
I was the same! And still have moments of frustration. I don't really have lessons (can't afford them!) which doesn't help.

A bit of a breakthrough for me was filming myself ride, and then watching the video back (during the session) and seeing what I could improve. Also watching hundreds of vids of good riders, to see if I could copy what they were doing. For a long time I assumed you had to sacrifice position etc for effectiveness, whereas now (in dressage at least) I think I'm getting to the stage where I don't have to.
 
Average rider with average horses. I like the Dressage Curmudgeon's approach

Aim Low. Reach your goals. Avoid disappointment...

LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS. Right down. To somewhere around rock bottom.

Then - if your expectations are met - you are not disappointed.
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With thanks to whoever it was posted the link to that blog earlier in the week.
 
My worst fault used to be my wobbly hands. For years I just didn't get how it was meant to feel, despite being told in lots of different ways by lots of different instructors. What helped me was regular lessons with a great instructor and a period of time where i only focussed on that fault at home, ignoring how my horse was going and all my other faults. One day it just clicked. I wouldn't say I'm fixed but I now get what I'm aiming for and my horses wobbly head is dissappearing as my wobbly hands are becoming still.
 
Someone commented that it is frustrating teaching someone who does not make the changes that they tell them they need to, so if there is something that you are doing that you should not be, focus on that and get it right till it becomes something you can do without thinking about it, then the next thing etc.

You have to want to change whatever it is you are not getting right enough.

That probably sounds harsh, but I find having a lesson, then going away and working on it myself, and then coming back and having another lesson helps. Also videoing so you can see what you are doing, and having the "right" picture in your head.

Anyway good luck, I have less than average talent, it is frustrating, but you can achieve a lot with hard work (and it does sound like you are working hard, just need to look at changing the things that are not working for you.)
 
Work smarter not just harder. Have clear goals. be honest to instructors and ask for some honesty back.
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In a nutshell. :)

If you're happy with your current instruction and everyone is on the same page, stay as you are. But I firmly believe - and nothing I have ever seen makes me doubt it - that you need to have a system before you can tweak it. If you're not going to follow someone else's then you'll have to decide on a path on your own.
 
Wolves said:
You really shouldn't beat yourself up so much, I know it's easier said than done! I am notorious for this, I really am my own worst critic.
Also, you may have improved more than you think. I think it is hard to judge ourselves how far we have improved as you don't tend to notice when you are riding everyday. Have you thought about video recording your lessons or an occasional schooling session? That way you not only can you see for yourself but also track your progress, refer back if you forget something in a lesson etc.
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You have improved a lot more than you think, your depth of seat is better. I believe that when learning you make rapid improvements then Plato for a while and feel your not improving but your building the base of the pyramid reason for the next step change. Try some lunge lessons so you can focus on those pesky elbows.

I do not post on the forum much but I do see you ride every week
 
I was in a similar position, meaning I just wasn't getting better despite lessons. Then I found ride with your mind

I had heard of it for a coue of years and thought it was just another guru or phase.
However I got to the point of giving up trying to improve so I thought I had nothing to lose

It has been a revelation. Instead of saying elbows back, my instructor
Says engage that muscle there and wahoo

The method of examining how to actually do something is so so different it's amazing
 
I find that because I'm super critical on myself I forgot when I've actually achieved something because I'm straight onto the next thing I can beat myself up over. Sometimes just stopping to have a real good think about every stage of what you've been doing can tell you little things that have got better without you even realising it. And just because your scores are staying the same out and about that doesn't necessarily mean things aren't improving. Say you don't compete that much it could be down to nerves and things which mean you revert to bad habits when out (I know I do whenever I get remotely nervous!). When I get myself in a whacking great strop because I rode a real bad one I have to stop and say, ok so you had a bad day, but actually you were trying to x and before you were only trying y so at least your now trying x even if it didn't go well. Doesn't always help but now and again I cheer myself up thinking well actually at least I've got here. I am chronic for comparing myself to professionals though as I always seem to be surrounded by them! A prime example being going out for a friends dinner and talking horses a few weeks ago and realising that out of 9 people at the table 5 competed for a living, no point in trying to compare myself when my main source of work is hunters!
 
I would agree with TS wrote and in addition have any of your instructors said WHY your elbows are fixed? something like that can often be a symptom of a problem rather then the problem itself so may be worth asking them what is causing you to fix them in the first place
 
crabbymare said:
. . . have any of your instructors said WHY your elbows are fixed? something like that can often be a symptom of a problem rather then the problem itself so may be worth asking them what is causing you to fix them in the first place
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I think this is the point a few people were making earlier - if they can't tell you, you need to find someone who can.

There are also, literally, thousands of helpful books on riding, many available for less than the cost of a lesson. I don't think reading replaces personal instruction but it is an excellent adjunct and it has to be helpful to examine other systems, ways of doing things etc. Reading, at least of general overviews, seems to have gone out of fashion, which I think is a real shame for riders with limited time and resources.
 
Lessons are only part of the answer someone I can't remember who said always strive to ride perfectly ever moment you sit on a horse if you ride fourteen hours a week and have training for two what your doing the other twelve hours is going to count the most .
So your non taught time is where you make the biggest difference .
I make notes after every lesson and write down what I am going to work on before the next one , each horse has a book .
A book that helped me was that winning feeling by Jane Savoie its very good on goal setting and planning how to achieve objectives .
I have one trainer that I have worked with for well over ten years there no doult it's easy to get cosy in those circumstances going to strange trainers now and again does buck me up and make me sharper .
Practice makes permanent is my Favorite saying but you have to be practising the right things in the right way to get the result you want.
 
So many good ideas! reading - yes I bought books and they sit on the shelf. I must finish Centred Riding!.........................................................
Elbows - if only it were just elbows! I am very tense, always something clenched or tight. I also have shoulder and arm problems that I need to sort out - not sure which way around those probelms came - tightness causing pain or vice versa.

I am making more of hacking since I dont have a menage at home but one I can rent when needed, and will look for ways to be more creative with that. Notes on lesson / videos of riding: yes will do those. I think its more my failing than the instructors - they must get tired of telling me the same things over and again. And yes they do all explain why things I do dont help the horse work at his best - and they do use other ways of explaining things which I love. Aims for this week will be: plan to start rising on a particular diagonal. If I foget and am already trotting to work out which one I am on without looking! Sounds silly but it bugs me that I have to concetnrate on it and then dont have enough mind power for other things - like getting the horse to bend.
 
It took me a long time to learn how to learn once I sussed it it made a huge difference .
It's very important to think positively ( trite thing to say I know ) but if you get on a downer with your self it's counteroductive .
Break the issues into bits then plan how you are going to help them, some of these fixes may be non riding ones like a Pilates class for instance.
The main time I think about my position is hacking ,it's boring so I might as well do something constructive .
Don't get in a cycle of feeling down about these things it sucks the fun out of it make positive plans and enjoy yourself .
 
coffeeandabagel said:
Maybe 3 is too many? Trouble is I love the most classical of them, but she cant ride anymore, the other flatwork instructor is less experienced but is still training so has lots of new ideas and can and does ride which ever horse I ask her to. The group lesson instructor has seen me at ODE, CT competitions and riding club camp etc so maybe has the best overall view of my riding though. Will start with talking to her I think.thanks guys, you have given me stuff to think about. Work smarter not just harder. Have clear goals. be honest to instructors and ask for some honesty back.
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if you love your classical instructor why not try find someone with similar training principles as her that you could perhaps send the horse to for a bit of a boot amp session and/or book yourself in for a course of lunge and school master lessons? Just a thought, maybe some intensive training and both horse and rider having chance to work on their own weaknesses will help.
Like Ts said there's no point working hard at something that's not improving sometimes something has to change
 
I used to feel the same way. I started riding in 2011 as a 23 year old. I didn't have lessons as a child. I have a competitive streak as big as the grand canyon and the fact that I was out competing (small shows, little jumps) and not doing well, was a massive blow to my ego. So I started asking why. Why am I not improving? Why is my horse doing this? Why does he evade this way? Why when I do this will that happen? I have two instructors and while they are brilliant, They only see me once a week or once a fortnight. I ride by myself the other 6 days a week, my bad habits that get picked up in lessons and worked on were great at the end of the lesson however, muscle memory and all made me revert back to them as soon as I was not in a lesson.

I gave myself a kick up the backside and got tougher on myself. Every session I am hard on myself. If my position sucks, I have exercises I can use to fix myself. Even if I don't work on my horse for that ride, it doesn't matter. The old saying "practice makes perfect," isn't entirely correct. If you practice doing something incorrectly, no matter how hard and how much you practice you will never get any better. The saying should be "Perfect practice makes perfect." If you constantly strive to improve something - your hands, your seat, not looking down, two point, three point, your seat, your balance.... you will get better. Focus on yourself for a bit, if you have bad habits, you might be impeding your ability to be an even more effective rider/trainer for your horse. If your balance is out, how can your horse be balanced? If your hands aren't good, how can your horse soften? The difference between a Pro and an amateur is 8-15 seconds. The Pro's will notice something 8-15 seconds earlier than an amateur. They have better feel that the rest of us. You can improve your feel. It is totally do-able, it just takes time and effort. You only get out what you put in.

Get your instructors to give you some exercises to improve your position. Use them when you warm up and cool down. It's NSN (No Stirrup November) next month... They riding without stirrups once or twice a week... It will help with your balance. Get someone to video you when you do flat work. Then watch yourself ride - preferably on a big screen telly (it's horrific and I hated seeing myself ride but it's effective to see all your bad habits), then watch Carl Hester, Charlotte Dujardin, *insert other really good rider here* and compare what they are doing to what you do. It helps heaps.

Above all - Get tough. Be strict on yourself. You may only ever be an average rider but there is not reason you can't improve. :) xx

*Just reading that, I sound like a bleeding motivational speaker. Ugh... But it's how I have improved my riding. I am not great - yet. I have improved 110% in 12 months. I may never be amazing, but I will never know unless I work as hard as I can*
 
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I sometimes have similar thoughts. I've ridden since I was 4 and yet only ride to novice level. I have however, had a number of horses who have had problems which have meant gaps in my riding and looking back a number of instructors who I know now didn't improve my riding/challenge me at all. I had one who I told him what he was going to say before he said it so both horse and rider were bored and neither progressed (I was still a teenager then so didn't really consider other instructors as at that point... I just didn't think about it).

However, recently (still relatively young), I bought my new horse and had lessons. The first instructor was lovely but not advanced enough for flat work (I did get her back for jumping as she was really into position and it was just what I needed for that), the second instructor I had consistently shouted at me and told me the horse was having a moody moment (she was the politest horse I have ever met and in fact was stressed by being asked to be winched onto the bit...which I also wasn't happy about!) and 3rd time lucky I found the most amazing instructor. He explained everything to me, why she was reacting to everything I did in certain ways or why she did certain things and how we could over come that and why. Having bio mechanics explained to me really works (for me) and has bought my riding and the horse on so much. We still arn't out scoring the highest marks winning everything BUT she is coming along so much quicker than in my previous lessons and so am I. so eventually the scores will go up and I know in my heart I am improving at home so this will show when we go out.

The point of my comment is, it doesn't always come quickly, review your instructors because sometimes you don't realise you don't get what you want out of your lessons until you look back and the fact that you want to improve is a very very good start :)

Good luck to you and hopefully you will find something that works and be able to move on :)
 
Def agree with the Physio suggestion, it made a big difference to me.
Also I think teaching is an art and it takes someone who really knows how to impart their knowledge. No point in people saying relax and bend your elbows time and time again maybe they should be giving you exercises or giving you a way to relax your elbows.
Also none of this average business! That's a label you have given yourself don't let that negative thought pull you down! You are better than you think you are, self belief helps us achieve our potential :) :).
 
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