Opinions - how much should you handle a yearling?

[Queenbee]

Living out with a bit of handling 2-3 times a week is what I have done with mine. I've seen people do the daily handling and night stabling and it seems to result in bolshy horses. Let them learn manners from other horses but teach them the day to day stuff like tying up and feet etc

This^^^ if there is something you come across that your baby doesn't do well (eg) picking up feet, do a back to back of 7 days and work on this every day, stopping every day when you get something positive, then go back to three days a week.

 

[Fides]

As soon as they arrive here they are taught daily to lead, load and have their feet picked up. Once that is established they are turned away 24/7 in a mixed herd and are handled according to their needs thereafter. So may be caught to move paddocks, for the farrier and vet or simply to be cleaned up and taken to a show. They go to about 3 maybe 4 shows as yearlings increasing to 6 or 7 at two and do a full season at 3 by which time they are pretty much the same as any horse. They spend about an hour or so a week being handled the rest of the time they are out doing their own thing with others. Probably takes a week or so to get them to the point when they can be relied on to lead, load and have feet picked out maybe an hour a week to learn to be bathed and groomed for a show. They actually learn a huge amount at a show and they learn all about traffic and exciting things at the same time even if they dont do the class the first few times they go

Perfect!

 

[moana]

Personally I would handle as much as possible. Nothing serious. Just scratching and fussing and days a few times a week where you groom, pick feet, lead and tie up. Basics

 

[Echo24]

Not to worry dollyanna, when I got my youngster I wasn't sure how much or how little I should have done with my pony so it was an interesting comment!

 

[Dry Rot]

Occasionally, I try to raise debate about the interesting subject of critical periods. But not many seem to be interested in the mind of the horse, possibly because horses don't have many defined critical periods but just join the herd soon after birth, once they are on their feet and sucking. I have found training dogs for certain things during these periods very useful indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_period

Dr Miller has of course done a lot of work on imprinting foals which seems to be more complicated than was first proposed. But is that the end of it? Are there no critical periods in equine development after this stage?

Yesterday, we took the stallion away from his mares and put him in with the bachelor herd. That comprises two yearling colts, one yearling colt, and a three year old gelding. There was a fair bit of chasing around as expected but no harm was done. However, I was interested to see one of the 2yo's go up to the stallion mouthing like a foal and immediately get accepted. So acceptance into the herd has to be one critical period? His brother is more developed and more masculine and was chased a bit, presumably as a possible rival. Also the gelding. When they had gone through this ritual, peace was restored and they all settled down to graze.

If we knew more about these periods of intensive learning, wouldn't it be easier to say when certain things are best taught to make the lessons shorter and the effects more long lasting?

I'm rambling because I don't know the answers and these are questions. I've used critical periods in dog training for years with good results. (I once taught 9 puppies to drop on command in 20 minutes -- that was the whole litter taught to drop in that time, not 20 minutes for each!). But then dogs have a longer developmental period. They go from blind naked pups to joining the pack with learning in a series of jumps, unlike the foal which is on it's feet, sucking, and following the herd in a relatively short space of time.

 

[dollyanna]

I would find critical periods for ponies fascinating DR, there is far more reliable information about the development of dogs than there is for horses - probably because they live so close to us and there are many many more ways in which people bring up a horse than a dog. Does the act of removing the horse from the herd alter the development itself?
That's what I found interesting with observing my two - I set out with good intentions to do load and loads of handling, but due to ill health didn't do nearly as much as I hoped. But they certainly let me know when they were ready to move forward and when they wanted timeout to think, I wish I had kept a record of their ages etc for this, and maybe it was them demonstrating their critical periods to me. Certainly the odd time when I wanted to achieve something but they weren't quite in the mood their learning was much slower - they pick up new things almost instantly when it is their choice, when it was mine it took a few repetitions and even then didn't seem as strong a learning.
I wish I could have a herd of youngsters to observe over the years and make the notes I should have done with mine.

 

[kc100]

Just wanted to say a big thank you to you all for your replies, I didnt think it would provoke so much debate and there are some really interesting points!

Dollyanna I think what you have done with your youngsters sounds exactly like what I'd want to achieve with my boy - there is a lot be said for being guided by the horse rather than placing your own demands and ideas onto them.

I have always thought a horse should be a horse, not a glorified pet, and that manners are best learnt from other horses so I dont think the daily handling, or being stabled, is right at this young age. Handling 2-3 times per week sounds about right, and there is a stable I can use maybe to pop him in occasionally just for a short while so he understands the idea of being inside - but I've seen him in a stable as well the barn environment and he's happy as larry in the stable, munching away at his hay net so there doesnt seem to be a problem there.

I do also agree with the approach that if there is something they are not great at (like the basics of picking up feet etc) then that might need a bit more frequent work and repetition until they do understand, then you can ease off again.

I think I am hearing on the whole now that intensive handling does lead to bolshy horses, so I will definitely be aware of that and give him his space to play with his friend (and be put in place by the older horses!), and when he is receptive to learning something on a given day make the most of that time.

Getting very excited about him arriving now, only 2 weeks to go!

 

[Dry Rot]

One of my weaned foals ran out of the field shelter and slap-bang into a strainer fence post which snapped at ground level. It was an almost new post as well, so that was some force! He limped for about 10 minutes and is now fine. Of course, he blamed me for it and was very spooky for weeks. I've been working on that and, months later, he is now growing in confidence.

What I found interesting is that his behaviour varies according to the location. He was fine in the field but a wild thing in the field shelter and round pen. I had him inside for a few weeks and he became almost confiding. But it was back to being spooky in the round pen. I spent all of yesterday working on him in the round pen and he is 100% better -- and I am exhausted! I think that is a lesson to be remembered.

Also, you can desensitise them to white plastic bags but it doesn't mean they won't be terrified of brown paper bags! They may tolerate a white dog but not one that is a different colour, or size. In short, they always keep us guessing, which is probably why I find them so interesting (and, sometimes, frustrating!).

 

[mynutmeg]

Just wanted to say a big thank you to you all for your replies, I didnt think it would provoke so much debate and there are some really interesting points!

Dollyanna I think what you have done with your youngsters sounds exactly like what I'd want to achieve with my boy - there is a lot be said for being guided by the horse rather than placing your own demands and ideas onto them.

I have always thought a horse should be a horse, not a glorified pet, and that manners are best learnt from other horses so I dont think the daily handling, or being stabled, is right at this young age. Handling 2-3 times per week sounds about right, and there is a stable I can use maybe to pop him in occasionally just for a short while so he understands the idea of being inside - but I've seen him in a stable as well the barn environment and he's happy as larry in the stable, munching away at his hay net so there doesnt seem to be a problem there.

I do also agree with the approach that if there is something they are not great at (like the basics of picking up feet etc) then that might need a bit more frequent work and repetition until they do understand, then you can ease off again.

I think I am hearing on the whole now that intensive handling does lead to bolshy horses, so I will definitely be aware of that and give him his space to play with his friend (and be put in place by the older horses!), and when he is receptive to learning something on a given day make the most of that time.

Getting very excited about him arriving now, only 2 weeks to go!

Just before we weaned Milo he was starting to get quite bolshy and generally a bit of a s**t to handle. He was turned out with his mom and an 'uncle' who tolerated hiim and didn't really discipline much. Once weaned he was turned out into a mixed herd of several experienced broodies, a 2 year old and several geldings. He was treated as you'd expect and chased off for a while before eventually being allowed to join the group (one of the geldings definately took him under his wing, the broodies were the meanest to him) and within a few days his behaviour towards people had massively improved and he had much better manners. He is now a respectful, but cuddly and loving little horse who has very good manners, a lot of this is due to the herd discipline he has had.
I believe there is only so much basic discipline a person can instill in a youngster - they need to have the 'horse' discipline in place as well for us to take advantage of and use.