Opinions needed please!

[i_lash]

I am currently working on an EPQ (Extended Project Qualification) over the summer holidays before I go back to college and it would be really helpful if I could gather the opinions of people in the equestrian industry. The title of my project is about how key a horses breeding and pedigree are in order for them to perform well. Therefore I would like to know how key you feel it is for a horse to have good breeding. The opinions I gather could be kept anonymous if you would rather and any information you may have would be great fully received.
Thanks

 

[ihatework]

That is quite a broad title/project!!

 

[i_lash]

Yes I have tried to narrow it down and am heading more towards high end competition and most of the information I have already gathered is relating the pedigree and breeding of the top flight competition horses. So i'm thinking that the general consensus of the project will be for high levels of competition it is important but was more enquiring whether people at lower end competition are as bothered by the way their horse is bred.

 

[Lgd]

Two aspects - if you are breeding for performance then you can increase your chances of getting a performer by using bloodlines that are known for producing the traits you want. Equally if a stallion gets a lot of mares then the chances of him producing a top level performer are higher. E.g. Jazz has a lot of top level performing stock but overall they tend to be quite 'hot', slow to mature and not always the easiest ride. For every one you see there will be a lot who never make it. At the other end of the scale look at Silvermoon - not had a huge number of mares but has produced a high percentage of top level performers. De Niro has a reputation for producing the goods - there were a lot of De Niro offspring in the dressage at the 2012 olympics.

People do tend to focus on the sire line, but the dam line is just as important, if not more so, as the mare also provides the mitochondrial DNA to the offspring. mDNA has influence on metabolism and thus stamina and performance.

Actual competition performance and soundness are very important for me as well. I have taken a punt on a first season sire once and to be fair it worked incredibly well. He complimented the mare and the now 2yo offspring is very smart.
All of my mares have a competition record - I breed on a small scale and can therefore afford to be fussy in that respect. My foundation mare is 7/8 TB, bred to event, hates showjumping (!) and went on to have a good career as an advanced dressage horse and retired sound at 19yo having come back after having a foal. She has produced three top quality foals to a dressage stallion who competed internationally and also retired sound at 19yo.
My other mare is graded, although she is half Russian which has caused me issues with her full pedigree being registered. Again competed to advanced level dressage, had a foal and come back into work, off to do a PSG in October.
Biggest thing they have in common is the trainability, performance and soundness.

 

[i_lash]

Thank you very much this is exactly the sort of information I was looking for, I had an idea that both bloodline and temperament were important but had never thought about the amount of mares a stallion would cover and all the 'failures' so to speak.

 

[Char0901]

So i'm thinking that the general consensus of the project will be for high levels of competition it is important but was more enquiring whether people at lower end competition are as bothered by the way their horse is bred.

I'm probably that lower end competition that you're referring too!
I competed with my mare up to Foxhunter level, qualified Scope, Amateur Finals etc.
She began having problems with an old injury on her front leg which she got before I had her.
She was by Greystone Pathfinder (a Scottish event horse) and her mum was an ex-racer. She was well built, big (16.3... I like big horses) kind, trainable, but overall a 'nice person'.
I put her into foal to a young (4/5 yo) show jumping stallion by Calido 1.
Key things for me was size and personality. He was quiet for a young stallion, had lovely manners, again a nice person... and an amazing jump.
I bred for myself only. I knew what I wanted but wasn't going to be disappointed either way, whatever came out was staying with me forever!
In May last year my foal was born. He's now 15 months old, about 15hh (I said I wanted big... lol) he's a lovely character, brave but cautious and clever, not bolshy and looks like he'll be perfect for what I want to do which is SJ and/or Eventing... But if he happens to be amazing at dressage... then we'll do dressage. I bred him for me so I didn't really think about anyone else.

In short, in answer to the quote, no it wasn't as important for me. I didn't care if the stallions name was well known or not, this was my mares first and only foal so I had no idea what kind of print she'd leave on him, attribute wise. I adored my mare and wanted something to compliment her primarily. I wanted to breed a nice horse, for my own use to jump (hopefully) up to 1.30 level... and so far *touch wood* it looks like I've done it.

 

[i_lash]

That's brilliant! He does sound like he will be big aswell, its nice to see someone just breeding for personal use as a lot of the information I have regards to just breeding for profit so you provide a nice alternative outlook. I hope you have every success in the future with him and he lives up to expectation!

 

[Spring Feather]

I
In short, in answer to the quote, no it wasn't as important for me. I didn't care if the stallions name was well known or not, this was my mares first and only foal so I had no idea what kind of print she'd leave on him, attribute wise. I adored my mare and wanted something to compliment her primarily. I wanted to breed a nice horse, for my own use to jump (hopefully) up to 1.30 level... and so far *touch wood* it looks like I've done it.

It may not have been important to you, but the pedigree of the sire of your mare and the bloodlines of your foal's sire *should* have given you something very useful and along the lines of what you were aiming for Your mare and foal, from the bloodlines you've mentioned, are good. Always more chance of breeding something nice, from something nice

 

[Char0901]

It may not have been important to you, but the pedigree of the sire of your mare and the bloodlines of your foal's sire *should* have given you something very useful and along the lines of what you were aiming for Your mare and foal, from the bloodlines you've mentioned, are good. Always more chance of breeding something nice, from something nice

Yes you're right Spring Feather. I guess it was important but for different reasons. I needed bloodlines to suit my mares breeding to hopefully create what I was after... So far, so good!
When I say it wasn't important I mean it wasn't important to have flashy, big, well known names all over the passport because I was breeding to sell, so he'd have to be appealing to buyers. I just wanted a nice horse for myself. So there you go OP, important but in a different way/for different reasons!

 

[Spring Feather]

I understood what you meant I more just pointing out to OP that although you mentioned the bloodlines weren't particularly of great interest to you, you did actually start with a decently bred mare and chose a decent (although perhaps not commercially well known) stallion, so your chances, whether intended or not, of getting a good foal out of the match were quite high

 

[i_lash]

Yes thank you both I hadn't thought about addressing the ideas of breeding being important but for different reasons so that will be interesting to look into further.

 

[Rollin]

Thank you very much this is exactly the sort of information I was looking for, I had an idea that both bloodline and temperament were important but had never thought about the amount of mares a stallion would cover and all the 'failures' so to speak.

I am pleased this issue has entered the debate. It is an argument I use in favour of rare breeds. When a stallion covers many mares and breeding is supported by state run studs, the chances of success are greater. To me it means much more that one Cleveland Bay stallion sired TWO Olympic Showjumpers when there were only a very small number standing worldwide.

I agree about the importance of the mare. My graded Shagya stallion has a full sister who is going to be even better I put their quality down to the mare we purchased in Hungary as much as to the sire. The both have good bone and this comes from the dam. The same sire to one of my lighter Chapman type Cleveland mare did not produce foal with as much bone.