Opinions of my mare feet

Roasted Chestnuts

Roasted Chestnuts

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Right Ewoyns shoes are coming off in less than two weeks when farrier is due as A - shes not going to need them and B - I have had some comments on her feet from pics I have put up about her leg :)

Her feet could be doing with a rest from shoes anyroads and shes got a full bed in her stable so not adding more pain by transitioning whilst in pain with tendon.

So let me know what you think AND what i could suggest to my farrier. She is already on a hoof supp :)

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Any opinions are welcome :)
 
I would get those shoes off ASAP they are so short at her heels they will be doing her no good at all and putting strain on the tendon that is already damaged.
She may benefit from remedial farriery for a while to give her the support she needs and enable her heels to improve,I am surprised the vet has not commented on her feet as a contributory factor to her injury.
I would look into changing farriers or at least having a serious talk to whoever you use.
If cptrayes does not also come on and advise send her a pm as she will probably have some more to add from her own experiences.
 
far too long in the toes, and low in the heel and no heel support whatsoever. Farrier has done you mare no favours whatsoever. The angle is completely wrong. She needs an aweful lot of work done whether or not she is barefoot. I am also shocked the vet has not said how bad her feet are especially as she has a tendon problem. Good luck.
 
Thank you :)

Vet has told me to get shoes off as it will allow her tendon to heal to proper length etc as shoes can cause it to heal shorter.

Spoke about remedial farriery with vet and not required as long as she has a thick bed and is not walking on hard surface vet think she will be fine.

So I am looking to change the angles of her feet and bring her heels back under herfoot. How would I broach this with the farrier in decent terms :) She does have terrible flat TB feet :(
 
They aren't half bad as a place to start from and you'll have to do very little but take the shoes off to see her change them quite quickly, I think. Will she be on box rest? It won't help that she won't be working, but you may still see considerable improvements . Her heel is very weak but she has good meaty frogs, so once they get to take her weight properly they should start to function much better. The toe will come back as her heels get stronger and rise.

You are going to get some possibly drastic looking lateral (side to side) rebalancing. Look at the hairline in some of the photos, it is pushed right up on the quarter. This means that there is far too much pressure from the shoe on the foot at that point. This will change as soon as you get her shoes off. DO NOT PANIC if it looks as if her feet are starting to grow wonky, they need to.

Check out the diet stuff on other threads if you have not already. She has growth rings suggesting that her diet has not been optimal for foot quality. That would also account for why her soles appear to be flat, and that will change if you can get her on low sugar/high fibre, with a correct mineral balance.

When you can get her out walking about, I reckon she will make rapid progress. Meanwhile, try and find a trimmer who understands that her feet need the frogs to be kept in contact with the floor and that they shouldn't trim sole or frog. The risk in being kept on a soft bed is that her foot will not wear, so she'll need help keeping the length right.

I hope it goes well.


PS The farrier/trimmer does not bring her heels back, (unless her frog is not bearing on the floor when they can be very slowly reduced so as not to strain the tendon) she will do this for herself as her heel strength increases. If you try to trim it in you will risk putting far too much pressure on her frogs and they may abscess.


PPS flat tarmac is a great conditioning surface. Ignore your vet, if he wants her walked out in hand flat tarmac will not only do her feet good but it is the safest underfoot for her tendon, with no risk of a misstep due to uneven ground.
 
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sorry but she doesn't look to have terrible flat TB feet. She looks to have good feet that a farrier is working hard to destroy. It is always difficult addressing this with your farrier as he is the alleged expert on feet and as such should be shoing your horse well. He is not. Therefore in theory he will not address the issue correctly. In my opinion i would suggest you speak to the vet and ask who they advise as a decent farrier. And get a new farrier. I have know farriers go off in a huff because I have asked 'why' a decent farrier should explain, be open to questions and shoe the horse correctly every time. If you have to show him photos and tell him what your problem in then really there is an issue. you can feed her all the suppliments in the world, you farrier is destroying her feet, and also not helping the tendon at all. Part of the reason why your feet are cracked is because they are at the wrong angle and causing pressure. Does she trip, scrape her feet on the ground as she walks, overreach or forge?

and get a new farrier for your gelding, again no support whatsoever for the heels.
 
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Your gelding's feet -


your farrier is routinely shoeing your horses too short in the heel - the shoe barely reaches the end of the heel plane, in fact it looks in one photo as if it doesn't. Your gelding also has lateral balance issues - look again at the hairline.
 
Bosworth said:
sorry but she doesn't look to have terrible flat TB feet. She looks to have good feet that a farrier is working hard to destroy. It is always difficult addressing this with your farrier as he is the alleged expert on feet and as such should be shoing your horse well. He is not. Therefore in theory he will not address the issue correctly. In my opinion i would suggest you speak to the vet and ask who they advise as a decent farrier. And get a new farrier. I have know farriers go off in a huff because I have asked 'why' a decent farrier should explain, be open to questions and shoe the horse correctly every time. If you have to show him photos and tell him what your problem in then really there is an issue. you can feed her all the suppliments in the world, you farrier is destroying her feet, and also not helping the tendon at all. Part of the reason why your feet are cracked is because they are at the wrong angle and causing pressure. Does she trip, scrape her feet on the ground as she walks, overreach or forge?

and get a new farrier for your gelding, again no support whatsoever for the heels.
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Thank you she has taken to dragging her hind toes when we go downhill, and we have had two falls, one on the road resulting in scrapes for her and a concussion for me and then the bambi that did the tendon. All since the last shoeing :o

Cptrayes - thank you I am just going on what I ave been told hence why after a few nice comments on my mares rotten feet it has sent home to me that with the recent tripping and the fact that the feet are not in great condition, its confirmed what i have been thinking. Im just no that clued up on feet enough to have the terms to ask the farrier about and to know when I am being bullshitted to.

My farrier is very open to me asking him questions and will generaly try and accomodate my requests :)
 
Your geldings shoes are also too short at the heel.
The mares feet themselves dont seem so bad just need to be allowed to develop some heel.
Have a chat to your vet and see if he can recommend someone or maybe he will talk to the farrier and explain what needs doing.
 
That might be a good idea to chat to the vet about her feet, and get him to say to farrier what needs doing. Its hard to get a farrier to come out to the middle of nowhere to do two horses :o I have had a lot of farriers tell me to go hike since I am not on a livery yard :(
 
but the point is ......... why should you have to have the discussion with your farrier, he is the alleged expert. He has not been trained to shoe that badly, that is how he shoes. So you are only asking him to shoe correctly. You should not be paying remedial prices. Both of your horses need shoeing correctly. How come he has not noticed how badly he is shoeing? I get really annoyed with farriers that do this. He knows they are badly shod, but he continues to do it. If he doesn;t realise they are badly shod then that begs the question 'why?' I am afraid you may well find he is not open to your questions when you ask, or manages to come up with something about your mare having 'flat feet' which she doesn;t, and not being able to support her heels cos she might pull her shoes off. Which is correct but only because her hinds are so long and badly shod.
 
NiknKia said:
Thank you :)

Vet has told me to get shoes off as it will allow her tendon to heal to proper length etc as shoes can cause it to heal shorter.

Spoke about remedial farriery with vet and not required as long as she has a thick bed and is not walking on hard surface vet think she will be fine.

So I am looking to change the angles of her feet and bring her heels back under herfoot. How would I broach this with the farrier in decent terms :) She does have terrible flat TB feet :(
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Get another farrier, unless YOU have allowed her to get in to this state due to not having her shod regularly you don't want this same guy to do her. Some farriers say nothing to their clients for fear of offending but mine would have a fit!!!!
If you are not expert it is best to have the farrier call every six weeks.
There are several good postings on barefoot on this site which will help to educate you on how feet should grow and develop.
 
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NiknKia said:
That might be a good idea to chat to the vet about her feet, and get him to say to farrier what needs doing. Its hard to get a farrier to come out to the middle of nowhere to do two horses :o I have had a lot of farriers tell me to go hike since I am not on a livery yard :(
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My lovely trimmer is dragged all the way down from The Orkneys to Lancashire and Yorkshire every 6 weeks.

He dared to move away from us and it caused an outcry, so we make him come back for us:)

He can run, but he can't hide
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I agree with comments about the feet and those heels on both horses. Change farrier! If you can't get a farrier to come out to you then what about trying a barefoot trimmer? Does the gelding especially need shoes on the front or do you think you may be able to try barefoot with him? Only asking that question because if you have a trimmer they obviously cannot shoe. OP have you tried searching for a farrier through this website http://www.farrier-reg.gov.uk/findafarrier.asp?page=findafarrier or have you only tried one's that have either been recommended or in phone book etc.
 
MrsD123 said:
Get another farrier, unless YOU have allowed her to get in to this state due to not having her shod regularly you don't want this same guy to do her. Some farriers say nothing to their clients for fear of offending but mine would have a fit!!!!
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Excuse me but both my horses are done regularly every 8 weeks, so im not sure if your implying that my horses feet are in this state because I havent had them done, if so then I can assure you they done as above. I once had to have my gelding go for 16 weeks because i couldnt get a farrier to do his feet, :mad: in the end I had to travel him to a farrierwho did it as a one off on a friends yard to get his feet done as nobody would come out to me. The vet pulled his shoes for me :( This was about 4 years ago.

I would rather get information and give present farrier a chance to fix this either by me telling him or the vet than have to possibly have my horses going longer between due to the fact that i cant get a farrier out to me.

ETA - I have gone through the farriers registery but many have set yards they visit and set clients and dont think it is worth their time to come out to two horses, one which is a half set and trim and the other was a full set but now will be a trim. there are loads I can choose from but none choose to come out.

My gelding had his feet ruined by a farrier, this is them better believe it or not :o He just cant go without on the fronts long story but I tried it when i took his backs off and he was crippled for 8 weeks even in the box :(
 
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if it comes to it Nikki, would it be possible to trailer them over regularly to a friends yard and slot in with their shoeing schedule?
 
Jiggle said:
if it comes to it Nikki, would it be possible to trailer them over regularly to a friends yard and slot in with their shoeing schedule?
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I have no idea. the friend whos yard I went to is no longer a friend I talk to regularly due to one thing or another :(

I could do another ring round the farriers and see if anyone would change their minds.
 
NiknKia said:
Excuse me but both my horses are done regularly every 8 weeks, so im not sure if your implying that my horses feet are in this state because I havent had them done, if so then I can assure you they done as above. I once had to have my gelding go for 16 weeks because i couldnt get a farrier to do his feet, :mad: in the end I had to travel him to a farrierwho did it as a one off on a friends yard to get his feet done as nobody would come out to me. The vet pulled his shoes for me :( This was about 4 years ago.

I would rather get information and give present farrier a chance to fix this either by me telling him or the vet than have to possibly have my horses going longer between due to the fact that i cant get a farrier out to me.

ETA - I have gone through the farriers registery but many have set yards they visit and set clients and dont think it is worth their time to come out to two horses, one which is a half set and trim and the other was a full set but now will be a trim. there are loads I can choose from but none choose to come out.

My gelding had his feet ruined by a farrier, this is them better believe it or not :o He just cant go without on the fronts long story but I tried it when i took his backs off and he was crippled for 8 weeks even in the box :(
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Sorry to have offended you when you came on here for advice and help, but imho the pictures show growth and flare due to not being shod as required, I think you mentioned that the farrier was due in two weeks time, to my mind they are due now, I may be wrong, but that is my opinion..
I suggest that you ask my farrier, Kevin Moriarty to recommend someone who would travel, you may have to pay for the travel time if you live in a remote area, but in business, time is money.
Kevin is as good a farrier as you will find, but is currently off work due to a bad back.
You could also ask Jim Ferrie of he knows someone., personal recommendations are the best.
 
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OK having looked at what I have wrtten it may look as though i dont want the help. I do with every word and I really want to get things fixed as this injury and my concussion from coming off on the road may have been caused by these feet :(

I WILL change farriers if I have to, I will give this farrier a chance to redeem himself but if he refuses then I cant really continue can I and I will have to find an alternative, even if I have to go on a course myself. I am going to the vets tomorrow to pick up medication for Eowyn and discuss her treatment. So I will take these pics and have a chat with the vet.

So can i just recap on what i have written down so far ?

Heel angles are needing addressed, they need to be more under the foot.
Toes are too long and need to come back
Frogs are not giving enough support
Once walking has commenced I would be better to do it on flat tarmac to condition the feet
The side are also needing to be changed. Cptrayes would you mind going over that bit for me again??
All this is great and I will be discussing it with my vet tomorrow.
 
MrsD123 said:
Sorry to have offended you when you came on here for advice and help, but imho the pictures show growth and flare due to not being shod as required, I think you mentioned that the farrier was due in two weeks time, to my mind they are due now, I may be wrong, but that is my opinion..
I suggest that you ask my farrier, Kevin Moriarty to recommend someone who would travel, you may have to pay for the travel time if you live in a remote area, but in business, time is money.
Kevin is as good a farrier as you will find, but is currently off work due to a bad back.
You could also ask Jim Ferrie of he knows someone., personal recommendations are the best.
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Thanks for the recommendation on who to call for names :)

I have played about with the schedules for my guys feet 4weeks, 6 weeks etc and 8 weeks was what suited them best. at 6 the farrier wasnt finding any growth and a few times was having nothing really to trim, especially in winter.

Anything that suggests i dont look after my guys causes me to see red, just a personal quirk as i have given up so much to be able to give them what they need but thats another story lol :D
 
You will find that feet grow at different rates at different times of the year and also in response to the work load, and also the general health of the animal.
In Ye Olden Days when hunters were given two hours of road work per day, they had to be shod every three weeks as by that time the shoes were worn. In spite of not having loads of supplements, the hooves were growing enough to have new shoes nailed on.
The whole foot business is complex and fascinating, farriers are trained to prepare a foot for shoeing, and not all of them are interested in anything beyond that, but you can educate yourself to quite a high level, once you have grasped the basic terminology.
There is a dissection of a racehorse on 4OD, but it is gory!
 
May I just say be careful focusing on getting a good shape to the hooves, getting diet and any support the horse may need to be comfortable are imo the priorities. A trim can be important but if it doesn't 'listen' to the horse he may be made sore from that. A trim wont make the hoof good either, it can only aid a horse developing it's own good hooves.

Have a good read of the Rockley Farm stuff and Pete Ramey's articles on his web site and learn what a good strong hoof looks like and how to get there. Remember, it may take time.
This blog is fab too. http://www.barefoothorseblog.blogspot.com/
 
NiknKia said:
The side are also needing to be changed. Cptrayes would you mind going over that bit for me again??
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The hairline should be a smooth line downwards from the front to the heel. In your photos, it's not, it goes UPWARDS into an arch at the side. This is normally an indication that the sides (quarters) of the foot are too long and they are pushing upwards against the coronet band. If you take a thermograph of a foot like that it will normally show red for excess heat at the coronet band at the height of the arch.

You do not need to change them, your horse will do it once it is no longer stopped from doing so by the shoes. Those bits of hoof may crack off at the bottom. Let them. Many, many horses do not want the quarters of their feet to touch the floor, it's perfectly normal.
 
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