Opinions on breeding your own

Lillybob

Lillybob

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Now I'd like to put a little disclaimer here. I am purely looking for opinions due to curiosity sparked by a conversation I had and wondered what other's views were, so please don't attack me for any of this :p
I am doing an equine degree at university and a while back we had a breeding lecture. At the end of the lecture I was talking to a friend saying "i'd love to breed my mare one day. I had her from foal and it was so rewarding". My lecturer overheard and he said "Please don't do that. So many people breed their horses and breed badly because they want one out of their own horse. It's a million times better for population and gene pools to buy a foal from a reputable breeder than to start producing your own foals that are likely to be of a poorer quality purely because you want one from your own horse".
We spoke about this a bit more and he was not being harsh or mean in any way towards me but was very set in his opinion. So I was wondering, what are your opinions? Has anyone here bred a foal to keep for themselves without wanting it to do anything special, just wanting a foal? Does anyone agree or disagree with my lecturer?
I understand what he's saying in some respects, if circumstances change it is better to have a horse that was breed extremely well and is worth more so that it is more likely to find a home if needed, but on the other hand, surely breeding your own one-off foal would be a very rewarding and educational experience?
Thoughts? :)
 
We've done it once, for the reason that the foal was intended to be a replacement for my (unrelated) gelding. It was a great experience yes, but didn't work out, I just didn't bond with the filly. We backed and rode her away, then PX'ed her for a colt. In retrospect I wish we hadn't bred her. I have no idea where she is now, she will be eight years old on 8thJune.
 
I've bred three - two out of a TB mare, one of which is pure TB, and the other IDx. The third is out of a mare whose dam I also owned; she is TBx Conn, and the sire is Anglo-Arab. I still own all three, although I would like to cut down now and rehome the TB or the Arab x. However, I won't let them go unless I'm really happy with the homes. I suppose it depends if you can guarantee them a home - if you can, I think it's entirely up to you.
 
I bred my own,from a TB mare I owned and crossed with an Appaloosa.
Was my horse of a lifetime. Kept him until I lost him 3 years ago aged 17, to cancer.
I have my own facilities,and I would never have bred to sell on. Although things dont always work out, as spot the risk said, it did for me.
 
I do agree with your lecturer, there are too many badly bred horses for nothing other than sentimentality.
BUT I also think that you can't just breed for good breeding. My old boss bred from his event mare, it was retired from eventing because it was was a psycho & you couldn't get on it because it just stood on 2 legs, fantastic breeding but first he put it to mill law who is known for making carbon copies of the mares, sure enough 1 psycho but very talented now 6 year old. Then put it to powerblade 1 crazy naughty foal but both with fantastic breeding.

My vet told me to breed from my old mare but she had the worst brain & was the most mareish mare ever so I didn't.

My current event mare would be a fantastic mare to breed from as she has a perfect brain, perfect temperament, good confo, lovely paces is ID x TB but no registered breeding if i put her with a stallion that had a good bit of scope she would throw a fantastic foal but I won't do it as much as I would love to as she has no breeding.

So yes I do think breed for breeding but you also have to have a good brain & confo too
 
I do agree with your lecturer, and also from the more practical side of things, I'm not sure it's something I could do! I don't have any experience in breeding whatsoever - however, I've read enough posts in the Breeding section to realise it's an exercise with huge risks, that no-one takes lightly, just to get a live foal on the ground.

To my mind, there seems to be a huge sliding scale from best case scenario to worst, and you have to be prepared in case the worst does happen. For example, a best case scenario might be you get a happy healthy foal, which has the attributes you want from mare and stallion - and it's a rewarding, educational exercise as you envision. In the very worst, you might end up without a foal at all, a dead mare, £££££ of vet bills and utter heartbreak.
 
Lillybob said:
It's a million times better for population and gene pools to buy a foal from a reputable breeder than to start producing your own foals that are likely to be of a poorer quality purely because you want one from your own horse".
Click to expand...

It's an interesting take on the argument and not one I'd have expected a lecturer to take. Most gene-pool arguments for many breeds today are often very restricted as breeders aim to create the "profile perfect" breeds. As such many can end up woefully inbred (dogs are an especially common sufferer from this predicament - even major competitions like Crufts are still up to their necks in this problem).

Much of the arguments against home breeding are often more focused on oversupply. That is to say markets are flooded with regular average and mongrel stock and even some specific popular breeds. As a result shelters are overfilled and its only the high end animals that tend to be sold and bought with ease.
That's the argument I'd have expected to be taken more so; especially for a horse which is a significant investment in time and money and has a long potential life-span.

That's outside of elements such as training the organising the breeding and training the foal. Again things that can be done out-of-house but at higher cost.
 
I've done it, from my TBxCon mare. She wasn't ideal as wasn't the most trainable, but I did it purely to breed myself a larger replacement model and went into it with no intention of ever selling the outcome. I put her to as good a stallion as possible, local well known eventer, to maximise the chances of breeding something good!

I bred a lovely boy, but like his mum he didn't have the most compliant trainable brain, but I loved him and had lots of fun on him. He saddly never fulfilled his potential and was let down by navicular and arthritis in his early teens. Strange as his mum was sound as a pound all her life.

So I do very much agree with your lecturer, and probably won't do it again, but if you can guarantee the foal a home for life, then why not.
 
I bred a foal from my mare-of-a-lifetime as a keeper. It is incredibly rewarding to breed, break and ride your own youngster. The lecturer has a point, but as my foal was almost guaranteed a home for life, if I had my time again I would do the same.
 
I think it depends on why you are breeding. If you breed from a mare because it's broken down or is unrideable and you don't know what else to do with it, I think its pretty irresponsible. if you have a talented mare with a good temperament and put it to a good stallion which you have chosen carefully to balance out the best and worst of your mare, then you could breed something nice. If your mare doesn't have something rather special, I think it's best not to breed from her. there's an expression "Fools breed for wise men to buy" I think there's a lot of truth in this!
 
No, because you aren't guaranteed anything like your mare and there are so many unwanted, abandoned, neglected horses around.
 
I've always listened to the old adage of never breed from your favourite mare. Breeding can be a risky business, and unless you are prepared for losses as well as gaining a foal then I wouldn't.

The market is hugely oversupplied and I do think breeding for the sake of it needs curtailing. The BHS Think Before You Breed campaign sums up the issues.
 
We have bred 4 over the years and expecting a 5th this summer. Our first 3 were pure bred Cleveland bays - a rare breed, so we bred them with the hope of having fillies we could sell on to be used for breeding in the future. We also have a riding school down the road so it worked out really well - the 2 fillies were sold privately pretty quickly for riding and breeding, and the colt was gelded and in the riding school for 6 months before being snapped up by one of the clients to be her own horse.

The other we've bred is a very well bred Riding Pony x Welsh B x NF whose mother we were given for free. The mother was great fun, and so we thought as we have lots of grass we have nothing to lose - we can always loan out the foal when it's older. I'm now breaking in said foal, she's rising 5 and looks to be a cracking PC pony. We aren't hoping to get rid of her any time soon, but want to find her a PC loan home once she is up and running with me.

The one we are expecting this summer is out of my horse-of-a-lifetime who evented to 1* and had the most can-do attitude to everything, as well as being beautiful if lacking a bit of blood. We have put her to a stallion who is 15/16ths TB with excellent eventing breeding and proven progeny. Ideally we hope to breed a fun event horse for me to ride who will hopefully be up to similar things as it's mum.

If you've got the facilities and thought about things properly, had advice from vets and other knowledgeable people then I don't think it's 'wrong' to breed your own. You're right, it is educational - I'm a vet student so have been able to practise scanning my mare which has been interesting! Most studs probably set up as people breeding from one of their favourite mares, so we shouldn't discourage everyone from breeding. At the same time, breeding from cranky knackered old yaks isn''t great, but I think that's just common sense :)

ETA: we did have a good long think before putting any of ours in foal though, especially our beloved amre who is in foal at the moment. We had thought about it about 4 years ago having been encouraged to by a number of different knowledgable people, but decided to wait and see how we felt. I think this is a sensible approach!
 
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I have a slightly different take on the whole issue. I bought a 6 month old foal and lavished money, time and love on him to turn him into my lifetime companion. He died last month aged 3 years and 9 months from acute grass sickness. I will never have another youngster now, the heartbreak of losing a loved horse combined with the loss of the future I pictured for both of us, is just too much to bear. I imagine this is multiplied all the more if you are talking about a foal you have bred yourself, not to mention the risk to your mare.

Sorry that is a bit downbeat. Just that my recent experience has, sadly, opened my eyes to the other side of the coin.
 
i agree with lecturer 100% although i have bought from a very well bred mare with filly foal at foot from a reputable stud and foal turned out to have a never ending list of serious health issues, was a walking vets bill and died at before she was 10. i would love to breed from my current mare (to keep) as she is just beyond perfect but at the end of the day she is just a coloured cob and they are ten a penny, the world really dsnt need another and im not overly keen on coloured cobs (despite already owning 2) and she has already bred two foals prior to me owning her so i wouldnt put her through it again, i do still day dream about though because i would love another with her flawless personality and looks
 
I also agree with Lecturer 100%. I have bred from my mare who was an amazing bold and trainable mare, she was 16.2 and stallion 15.2. Both good stamps and stallion often bred great show horses. I ended up with a 17.2 who had room for two saddles. He is now 10 and enjoying a happy retirement with problems due to conformation. I have also bought a 4 year old , which we are enjoying producing, of a breeder, who has been in the business 40 years. Our Foal we bought at an elite foal sale is now a 2 year old with outstanding confirmation. I have learnt a hard lesson. I and my horse have just been lucky that we are in a situation that i can keep him as a field ornament and i figure i owe him and his wonderful mother to look after him.
 
We've had 4 foals born at home.
The first one was a Bogof as I desperately needed a companion mare for one of mine when I took the 2 riding horses out. The vet took one look at the subsequent foal and said "he's much better put together than his mum" He was sold at weaning to a friend, has never lived more than 10 miles away and is now 18 and still giving his new owners happy times. The companion mare turned out to be a brilliant ride, even if she never looked the business, and kept my friend riding whilst she waited for the foal to grow up. We never did establish either mare or foal's breeding as it was pre-passport days.

We then chose to breed a 7/8 TB (my mare) x ID. We felt the nearest stallion was not quite right so went to Kensons Aragorn who was with Delerie Chambers at the time. The foal was a quality filly and sold at weaning to another friend. She had a lovely temperament, jumped 3 foot for fun as a foal, 5 foot as a 2 year old escapee and then took her time to learn how to jump with a saddle on. My friend had to sell her so she went New Forest pony droving and was as happy as Larry. Cross country suited her, and the long distances too. Finally she was broken to driving which she really took to. Unfortunately she dropped a leg in a ditch whilst being driven and broke it.
Next foal, same mare, was by the ID Tullough Hero who had been puissance jumped by Graham Fletcher. My colt just oozed presence and was kept, but gelded, to be my next ride. Unfortunately he died at 18 months due to strangles complications.
Five years later I felt I was ready for my mare to have 1 last foal and we chose the ID stallion Beeston Lord Henry. He gave the foal lots of bone and his dark colouring. I have kept her as she can be bossy with other horses, but she is 9 now, ridden when i am fit, and gives me pleasure, which is what it's all about.
I still have the mum but I doubt if I will keep her beyond this autumn as she struggled a bit this last winter and I would hate to see her suffer more.
Is your lecturer right? Perhaps but not everybody can afford the best of the best. Sometimes OK to good is enough, especially for the amateur pleasure horse owner. In general I feel stallion fees are not huge so people can choose a good stallion if they want.
 
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We bred our little new forest but she had very good breeding and we put her to a friend's coloured cob that we knew well. Out popped our dream filly, beautifully marked with stunning paces. Unfortunately we lost her mum to respiratory problems but having her daughter helps. One side of her face has her mum's marking and the other side her sires. I am going to put her as a pair with my gelding so will have lots of fun. Will consider breeding a foal from her in the future but the stallion will be very carefully selected and the foal will stay with us. I like the fact that I know the foal from the word go.I have built a very strong bond with our girl
 
Is your mare a good type? If yes, then I don't see why you shouldn't have a foal from her. Choose a good stallion and be prepared to spend a lot of money on vet's fees (probably more than the foal will be worth!) but you will have fun.

People go on about overbreeding, but I haven't seen any abandoned quality horses round here, it's mostly the poor quality cob, native and gypsy type ponies that are being abandoned.

I've also seen some produce from some professional breeders - a friend of mine was looking to buy two youngsters and we went round quite a few studs. One chap showed us many foals and yearlings, but was keeping the best ones, and was only selling the not so good ones!

I realised my own mare was of better quality than many of their broodmares, so rather than buy from one of the breeders I used a good stallion on my mare and ended up with a very nice foal.

But if I ever added up the vets bills I might change my mind :)
 
My just turned 4 yo was bought as a 6 week old and came to me at weaning. He has no recorded breeding but very good confo as has his dam, and he is out of a very successful line of drum stallions but just not paperworked. However, his breeder suggested keeping him entire and having him tested for homozygous colour... they are otherwise sensible people! Needless to say his bits were off by 12 months. And thank goodness because despite his great confo he has djd. He has a home for life here...but nobody can truly guarantee that, can they? If something happened to me he would have to go to WHW. So for their own sake, I agree with the lecturer completely.
 
I agree. Only breed quality with quality ie 1.20+ mare with GP sire (same quality for dressage etc). Even by doing this we end up with some average horses so sell the average to the novice/amateurs and keep the decent ones for high level sport. This way cuts out all the poor stock bred for the sake of it
 
If you have a quality well conformed soundness proven mare why not ?
I can tell you there's no guarantee that the horse you buy from from a breeder will be from a sound work proven mare .
However you must have a realistic view about the costs of doing it right and prepared to be brave if you are unlucky and get say a very crooked limbed foal.
I never understand this view that only breeders can be trusted to be responsible .
 
I know 2 people who bred their own from their own mare both were prepared to keep the end result regardless one is now about 8 under the expected height but otherwise lovely and being kept regardless. The other is too young to say if she has achieved expectations. I think there's lots of room for error even with experience and good breeding. I see lots of ads with comments about the horse not having achieved height expected or not being suited to the job it was bred for, if it's a good animal it will find another home if not it may not.
Having said that I have no idea what the plan was when my horse was bred he's a friesien x Welsh and I bought him at 2 so he wasn't kept by his breeder I'm sure they weren't intending to produce something friesien size and strength with nutty Welsh personality. I love him to bits he's nicely put together and showing potential to be the all rounder I wanted so his dam and sire were probably good animals . I'm delighted he was both bred and sold
 
I bred my own in 2010. My mare was honestly perfect in everyway and well bred. she had a good competition record and I knew she would throw good offspring. I choose a stallion that was talented and complemented the mare & would hopefully produce something I would enjoy owning & riding. Now have a beautiful, sane, rideable & talented 4 year old mare. I do not agree with breeding bog standard or broken down horses for the sake of it. Only breed from proven stock :)
 
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