Opinions on horses feet

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Mancha

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I have posted in the Veterinary section of the forum for advice about my horses feet. I won't say too much to begin with i'll give you chance to have a look before i say too much. Any opinions on the condition of his feet, either fronts or hinds although i will say it is the hinds that are my main concern. Be as honest as you like, good or bad. :)

Fronts, apologies he was not stood square
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Near Fore
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Off Fore
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Hinds
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Off Hind
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Near hind
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He had just come in from the field and then been ridden in the school which is why they are a bit grubby :)
 
Feet look alright to me. The heels/toes are a bit long in front, giving a bit of a stilt-like effect, but the hinds are a much better shape - can't see a problem with them apart from that chip on the NH. It looks like the farrier has rasped the front of the hoof wall, which may weaken the hoof & could be the reason for the chipping. I'm no expert, though!

Nice frogs, btw :)
 
Heels a touch long in front, and I'd like to see a little more heel support from the shoes, hinds look good though maybe a smidge high at the heels again - cracking frogs, though I would get at them with some salt water as ideally you'd have the cleft a little more open to clear out any niggles of thrush in there. Looks like someone has been going at the frogs with a knife - next time wrestle them to the ground and ban them from doing it - big no no!!

What is it you are concerned about?
 
He was shod/trimmed 5 weeks ago now so due shortly for re doing. He has bone spavin confirmed/treated in the off hind and suspected probably also some degree of it in the near hind but hasn't been lame so we've left it alone. He had his hinds removed approx 6months ago due to lengthy amount of time off, i have always shod my horses so new to the barefoot idea. My vet and my farrier had concerns that the backs needed to go back on but i am trying to persevere with it a little longer as he is not really foot sore, vet was concerned there was too much uneven wear, farrier was concerned they were wearing too much.
 
I thought they looked good, if they are wearing unevenly I believe that is how he needs them to be for his comfort with the spavins.
If you want more growth try feeding Farriers Formula as that will both support the horn quality and help with growth.
 
Yep, there definitely there ;)




Having had TB's where I am constantly striving to grow the heels to any where near this length, I would say having a deeper length of heel is a better trait than no heel and having to have pads on all round. I think they look a little boxy and i would say the horse may seem a bit pottery at times because of the 'upright-ness'


Have a look at this -
http://www.equipodiatry.com/hoofangl.htm
 
be positive said:
if they are wearing unevenly I believe that is how he needs them to be for his comfort with the spavins.
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This!! So so important, esp with his spavins. If he is showing an 'unbalanced' self trim then I would believe what he is trying to do with his feet over anyone else at all.

Wouldn't bother with farriers formula tbh, v expensive for what it is. I would add some brewers yeast and magox to help his feet, along with the usual low sugar/starch feed choices.

The length of the backs looks fine. So long as you haven't suddenly gone mental on road work, then again, I would trust your boy to do what he needs with his feet - he is the expert! Both of ours keep their feet 'short' to our farriers eyes, but they have been like this over a year and are wonderfully sound over all going, so it must be working for them!

When the fronts are shod, I would ask your farrier to leave the backs alone so that your horse can do what he needs to with them. So long as he is getting some work on an abrasive surface (roads/tracks/gravel and even mud) then he will get the balance between growth and wear right and will be able to get the balance to what it needs to be much sooner.

Best of luck in your foray into the barefoot world! As long as you listen to your horse, over anyone else, then you won't go far wrong.
 
My only worry is if they will get gradually more and more uneven until eventually both his feet and legs may become compromised and create problems elsewhere? As at the moment in the space of 6/7 weeks they become uneven, they are then trimmed right again, and then in the following 6/7 weeks they become uneven again and so on. How 'wonky' will they get?! He has had trouble with abcesses before which is a worry/pain in the arse particularly at this time of year!
It's difficult really, as i trust my vets and farriers opinions and so far there's been alot of conflicting advice!
 
My lad has one odd shaped foot on the front and stands pigeoned toed, he tripped on a regular basis, because I couldn't find a decent farrier, he went barefoot, his boxy foot spread, he stopped tripping, he didn't slip in the ice/snow, unfortunately we moved yards to a gritty surface which went up into his hoof wall making him footsore, so my OH who is anti barefoot suggested he was shod again, hating the thought of Bruce being sore I agreed, but I know he was better off being barefoot, so will probably try again, taking expert advice on it, I think I fell down on the sugar aspect, as I can't resist giving apples/carrots
 
Mancha said:
My only worry is if they will get gradually more and more uneven until eventually both his feet and legs may become compromised and create problems elsewhere? As at the moment in the space of 6/7 weeks they become uneven, they are then trimmed right again, and then in the following 6/7 weeks they become uneven again and so on. How 'wonky' will they get?! He has had trouble with abcesses before which is a worry/pain in the arse particularly at this time of year!
It's difficult really, as i trust my vets and farriers opinions and so far there's been alot of conflicting advice!
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It is easiest if you try and ignore how they look for a bit! Instead look how he lands on them - can you get someone to walk him towards you while you crouch down so that you can see if he is landing level? If you can video it then so much the better as you will be able to slo mo or pause it to really be able to see what is going on.

If he is landing inside or outside first, then yes he is unbalanced (work over conformable surfaces, very limited road work, will help with that and help him fix it), if he is landing flat (but obv ideally heel first) then all is well and his feet may look 'unbalanced' but they are infact what he needs. His fronts should land flat, his hinds should land slightly outside first.
 
Looking at your horses hooves from a barefoot angle, i think the backs look very good, the frog is nice a big and will absorb the concussion of the leg landing on the ground which will pump the blood back up the leg.
The Fronts look good too but the heels are a bit long, does the frog touch the ground? and what is your reason for having shoes on the front?


I have a standerd bred that is barefoot all year round and she is great.
 
I agree with lots of the above, both the vet and farrier are worrying but your horse is sound, his feet look fine with great frogs!
Horses with spavins will wear their feet unevenly, putting shoes on to force the foot to land in a way that 'the establishment' deems correct is (IMHO) asking for trouble - for me a golden rule is if its not broke don't fix it and those feet don't look broke to me, and your horse isn't lame so..... :)

What I suspect is going on at the moment is that your horse is getting his feet just how he likes them then the farrier comes along and trims them to the ideal according tot he book, your horse then spends the next few weeks getting them back how he wants them only to be trimmed again - how about asking the farrier just as an experiment to leave them to their own devices for a couple of months to see what happens?? Either way i'd ask him to lay off trimming the frog and sole but its testament to your horses feet that he's still sound with these being trimmed.
 
I have nothing to add to the above other than that if he was mine, I would be mentioning to the farrier that his heels are a good length now, and that I would want normal front shoes back on him with toe clips. I had a TBx with no heel in front, and he was shod as yours is, with the toe clip taken off the shoe and placed a little further back to encourage the growth. He had normal shoes back on after that and his heels remained the good length.
 
Mancha said:
My only worry is if they will get gradually more and more uneven until eventually both his feet and legs may become compromised and create problems elsewhere?
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Which is why your vet want's the hinds back on.

I think the fronts look boxy and rather upright...
 
Sorry i should probably add, the horse is not sound and hasn't been for a while due to the spavins (having the hinds removed didn't make him better or worse and he's not foot sore) He's on a bute a day and is ridden gently to encourage fusion, under guidance from my vet.
He is shod in front because he always been basically, we tried a period of barefoot in front and he just had recurrent abcesses. We also do alot of hacking/road work.

Amymay- are you saying you think the backs should go back on? You don't really elaborate. Could you also explain what you mean by boxy? My vets both commented that they thought his fronts had been shod very nicely so i am very interested to hear your opinion :)
 
Dotilas said:
I have nothing to add to the above other than that if he was mine, I would be mentioning to the farrier that his heels are a good length now, and that I would want normal front shoes back on him with toe clips. I had a TBx with no heel in front, and he was shod as yours is, with the toe clip taken off the shoe and placed a little further back to encourage the growth. He had normal shoes back on after that and his heels remained the good length.
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He has been shod like this for a while now, i must admit i don't ever really question the way my farrier shoes him. Is there a problem with this type of shoeing? I have had him for 8 years and in this time he's been shod in a few different ways, he's had single front clips, 2 clips, natural balance shoes, and then the ones he is wearing now which (i had thought) seemed to be working for him?!
 
P.S. meant to say, I would drop Brucea a PM as I'm pretty sure one of his chaps has spavins so would be able to let you know what works and doesn't for him?
 
Ok so not being sound behind changes things slightly but it would make me more inclined to ask the farrier to try leaving well alone for a bit and let him set his own balance and to definitely leave the sole and frog alone, I took a horse with spavins barefoot and the difference in his movement was amazing, it took a couple of months but he was much free'er and didn't struggle so much going downhill as he had in shoes.
 
Mancha said:
Amymay- are you saying you think the backs should go back on? You don't really elaborate. Could you also explain what you mean by boxy? My vets both commented that they thought his fronts had been shod very nicely so i am very interested to hear your opinion :)
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I'm not in a position to say if the hinds should go back on or not - that advice you should take from your vet.
 
I am not an expert, but my first thought was that the fronts are well shod, that is to say the shoes are put on well, but I think the feet look as though they are over-trimmed which is giving that boxy look, that is to say they look "short and upright". The angle of the hoof wall off the ground is very acute, but it depends on conformation, have a look at Rockley Farm photos. http://www.rockleyfarm.co.uk/RockleyFarm/Changing_hooves.html
Without seeing the horse in the flesh and having knowledge of him it is impossible to be adamant, it is the first impression from the photos. Are you shoeing regularly when there is enough hoof wall growth to allow the farrier to lightly trim and then shoe. To me it looks as though he has taken too much off, if he is trimming over the whole of the sole with his knife [not an uncommon fault], this would ring alarm bells with me. re the vet comment, the vet will never say "that is a rubbish set of shoes, get another farrier" as he does not want to get involved, also many vets are limited in their experience [yes sorry to all you vets out there, but it is a fact!].
PS I am not saying there is anything wrong with your farrier, I do not have enough information or experience, but there is another point, as the horse is not sound, he is not getting a lot of road work so should handle barefoot in front, but I think you might be better sticking to shod front until the hinds have stabilised. You could wait till he needs a new set in front, take them off, rasp off the edges and see how he copes for a month.
Is he on a vitamin enhanced diet due to his age, if not I would make up a dietary supplement suited to his needs, and also add 100gms micronised linseed meal to his feed, this replaces some of his normal feed so in that way it is not expensive.
 
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He is shod every 7 weeks on the dot. The vet was not asked for a comment as it were, both vets that have treated my horse have made comments of their own accord that his front feet look good.
As for the work, my horse had so much rest when trying to treat the spavins with no success, he has had them medicated numerous times, again with no real success. So the vet gave me 2 options, 1 to have them surgically fused which i would not even consider he is a 14 year old happy hacker who hates being stabled, my insurance does not cover spavin anymore either. The second option was to work him gently with bute so he is not in any discomfort as it is believed it is the work that will encourage the spavin to fuse. He hacks 4/5 times a week, mostly in walk with just the odd trot or canter along a soft track. So nothing strenuous! I was very reluctant at first to effectively be riding a lame horse, but it was under guidance from my vet and it does seem to be the way forward.
 
ThePony said:
It is easiest if you try and ignore how they look for a bit! Instead look how he lands on them - can you get someone to walk him towards you while you crouch down so that you can see if he is landing level? If you can video it then so much the better as you will be able to slo mo or pause it to really be able to see what is going on.

If he is landing inside or outside first, then yes he is unbalanced (work over conformable surfaces, very limited road work, will help with that and help him fix it), if he is landing flat (but obv ideally heel first) then all is well and his feet may look 'unbalanced' but they are infact what he needs. His fronts should land flat, his hinds should land slightly outside first.
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this.
I would find out how he is landing. Video if at all possible so that you can put it on a big screen and sit back and study it in slow motion.

I find that if you ask a number of vets to comment on a set of shod feet you will get a wide range of comments. What one vet thinks is good another doesn't.

Have you considered also that the rest of your horse may be out of alignment? Possibly just due to life and also maybe due to how he carries himself with his spavins.
One of mine is barefoot (but that doesn't really matter) his feet were very unbalanced. I didn't balance them but got my chiropractor out. He found loads out of balance and once he corrected and readjusted the horse there was quite a difference to the imbalances in his feet. That does back up to some extent what people are telling you about letting the horse balance his own feet to what he needs. Not suggesting you should do that but that you find out if anything else is going on and if part of the foot balance question can be fixed higher up.
 
Mancha said:
My only worry is if they will get gradually more and more uneven until eventually both his feet and legs may become compromised and create problems elsewhere? As at the moment in the space of 6/7 weeks they become uneven, they are then trimmed right again, and then in the following 6/7 weeks they become uneven again and so on. How 'wonky' will they get?! He has had trouble with abcesses before which is a worry/pain in the arse particularly at this time of year!
It's difficult really, as i trust my vets and farriers opinions and so far there's been alot of conflicting advice!
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How many times will he have to tell you and your farrier that he is most comfortable with them "unlevel" before you listen to him and STOP "correcting" the foot that he is building for himself.

He is making them unlevel because his hocks hurt. Let him. In time he will grow thicker horn on the parts which he needs to wear less but if your farrier keeps chopping them flat again he can't.

If your farrier wants to see the pictures of the moulds that I took of my spavined barefoot horse - with one collateral groove twice the depth of the other, tell me where to send them. He worked through with bare feet until they fused and is now sound.

Abscess problems are usually diet related.
 
Don't panic cptrayes i haven't had them trimmed yet!! Still just questioning it with myself! Farrier is coming in the next couple of weeks, and the vet is coming before then for vaccs so i will discuss it with both but i am definately going to suggest at least a trial of leaving them be. Would it be a case of leaving them completely, or is there still some work that needs to be done?
 
He's lucky with you as an owner Mancha, that you have a questionning mind.

Personally, I would leave them completely alone for 3 months except for taking off sharp edges and chips. They may look very odd during this time but provided that you get him to wear them down by working him on rough surfaces then he will come to no long term harm. At the end of that time, if he is like my horses (I've had two, got one right now) then he will even up the depth of his hoof wall compared to his sole. But if you stick a hoofpick down beside his frog at the heel, you will find that one of his collateral grooves, the inside one, will be much deeper than the other. This pattern seems to be universal in spavined horses left without shoes on and allows them to work with least discomfort. It will also come and go in depth depending on how unsound he is that week or month, as the weather and the condition changes.

Please PM me if you want my moulds photo to show your farrier, and the blog address of the horse as he currently is, sound and well.
 
At the moment he is getting plenty of work on varying surfaces, grass/mud, tarmac, gravel, sand/rubber school, brick rubble pathing, allsorts really so should hopefully do the trick!

Thankyou for your help :)
 
Feedmark have a special offer on Exraflex HA, the premium supplement, I am not sure if this would help the spavins but at his age it would probably help all round, and as others mentioned, when one part of the body is hurting the horse tries to compensate and thus has more issues which are not directly related to the original problem.
Feed supplements are expensive but I am always on the lookout for these special offers, and they are really worthwhile.
 
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