Opinions on Parelli

*Maddy&Occhi* said:
I'm sorry but there is no way anyone can justify that video as a "mistake" it was utter carnage. That horse was terrified! Fair enough there are times we look back and wish we had done things different, but, its never to justify why I bullied, petrified and abused my horse :eek::eek:
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I am not justifying it, you missed out the bit where I said below that I still disagree. But I did not see the entire show, I find it hard to judge, so I shall sit on the fence for this one :)
 
The few parelli trained horses I have met have all been, for want of a better word, shut down. There is no joy in their eyes and they don't seem to behave like I would expect a horse to.

It is not something I would ever use - it is a cult, as others have said, and I can work with my horse to get good behaviour without destroying the spark in his eye.
 
Not my thing, if im not getting anywhere and want to look at different methods to achieve goals and solve problems, id look to Richard Maxwell, Monty Roberts , Mark Rashid or Michael peace. Pat Parelli wouldnt even make it over the horizon.
Another who agrees the Catwalk incident was a disgusting display of poor horsemanship, by someone who doesnt even have the balls to say " i made a mistake ". No ..... Its us that were " confused" by what we saw, his arrogence knows no bounds, Sorry Pat, but thats utter pi sh, i know what i saw and if it'd been my horse, id have stopped you in your tracks before letting it continue.
 
marydoll said:
Another who agrees the Catwalk incident was a disgusting display of poor horsemanship, by someone who doesnt even have the balls to say " i made a mistake ". No .....
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Recently on another forum, I asked this:

Have "they" (principally Pat Parelli I suppose) ever done a retrospective on how their horsemanship and PNH has changed from earlier days? It would be interesting to hear what parts, if any, they thought were less successful or "not such a good idea" or even downright wrong ("yes that's what we used to do, but we definitely wouldn't recommend doing that now").

which prompted this response which actually makes a lot of sense:

I seriously doubt that there has ever been, or will ever be, a "Parelli sponsored" retrospective.

In American culture admitting error is very difficult, especially for a "public figure." And most especially for one that has made serveral Million Dollars selling a training program.

First, there's an economic issue. If they ever admit that they were wrong in their early advice then they could easily be perceived as owing their original customers some "compensation" for providing a "defective product." An imaginative lawyer could streatch that out in quite interesting ways.

Then there's the "ego" part of it. "Crow" never tastes very good no matter how well prepared.

And then there's a professional credibility issue; consider it the "flip flop" problem. If a person admits that they were wrong in earlier times (after years of saying otherwise) but are right now it's fair to ask it they will be flip-floping again in the near future.

So I guess that explains why Pat Parelli can't admit that he made a mistake.
 
I witnessed today a lady with a carrot stick and rope stressing her poor horse out. God knows what she wanted the horse to do, it was in and out the trailer like a yoyo.

Friends and I went off hacking, 3 hrs later the lady still is messing with the horse wacking the rope around its head.

Nobody had a clue what she was trying to do. She never rides it, just plays the games. She then put horse away, she didn't even go anywhere, poor horse. Parelli i think not.
 
on my yard there seem to be a lot of liveris who do parelli, some who have tried and given up, and me, who is sceptical and often persuaded to try parelli.

Personally, it's not for me,my horse can go back and round/sideways without a halter or a long lead rope. I dont need to shake my leadrop at handy to make him go back, he does that himself!
The people who do it religiously are forever playing games, having lessons with big balls, 45ft lines, barrels etc.
Has it got them anywhere? no, don't think so. I once saw one horse, who has been doing parelli for years, spend hours and hours going in and out of the trailer, much like fizzer described. It was hideous, this horse has never been a good loader/traveller (he's 17.2!!) and it didn't get them anywhere. Often hacked out in parelli halters, my YO isn't keen in parelli at all, she hates it!
It's not something I'd ever try, and don't intend to now.The vid of catwalk put me off.
 
I posted a thread some months back...I had never really looked into it...always assumed it was kind....then I watched the DVD's that someone let me borrow...got to disk 3 and couldn't watch anymore!

Its appalling...the method of punishment (clip bashing the horses jaw) is simply disgusting and to package it up as a DVD for people to 'try at home' is IMO irresponsible.

IMO there are things that should only be done by professionals...and the entire concept is 'breaking the horse' it is simply packaged in a different way.
 
The idea of understanding your horse, being a leader not a predator, and doing things together out of respect rather than fear? Great: wonderful principle. The reality of Parelli? For me they fail to deliver on that mission statement: Roberts, Marks and Maxwell live up to their aims, doing it in a smarter, calmer and more positive way. Parelli may be a successful business model, but it's not a successful NH model imo.
 
I am not a big fan of Parelli.However I do think that a lot of people learn a LITTLE and practise it incredibly badly.A LOT OF NH trainers teach a little Parelli but have never studied this or indeed any other scholl properly.They don't call it Parelli because they are not licensed practitioners.They are just leaping on a band wagon.We had some generic NH stuff at a camp I went to.One tried to get my very kind and obliging cob to back up by swinging the lead rope at him.(He backs up perfectly well if asked in a way he understands, sometimes you just have to think it!). He didn,t understand so tried to trot round as if on the lunge, steadily, nicely thinking this is what she wanted.She had a complete hissy fit.I put a stop to ot all there and then and left the class soon after.She teaches at a local riding school/livery yard and specializes in the new horse owner.
 
My new boy is fab...previous owner did various NH with him and I am eternally gratefully as he has had lots of desensitising done (ropes, umbrella, walking over tarps etc)

Now.....this is all very useful but it does of course mean my horse couldn't care less if you swing a rope....he thinks he is meant to stand as that is one of the games! so cue instructor flapping rope around try to get him to back up!

The point I am trying to make....its not one size fits all! my boy does move back, its not graceful yet but we are practising (gently) as he is trying very hard to understand....my instructor flapping ropes at him made him cross and confused.

I think one of the problems with ALL NH techniques practised by us everyday folk is that we all need to be mindful about when a horse simply doesn't understand....and not assume they are taking the p*ss!

I watched one DVD where the guy used his techniques...then he gave about 4 scenarios of what might happen and what to do ....I thought this was far better than any Parelli!
 
I don't really have an opinion on Parelli itself - I don't necassarily like the cult that has built up around it - in my opinion you take what you want from any method and don't have to follow it religiously. Whats the opposite of right.... left.... i.e different. I don't think there's one right method with horses.

The thing I do have against it is the ready made package you can buy - people buy the Dvds and books and think they are then qualified to perform these practices. Now personally I would never try anything new without having a qualified instructor there teaching me. If taught correctly i'm sure it works, but if used incorrectly I'm sure it must terrify the poor horses!!!! Its a totally different language and needs to be introduced slowly. It would surely be like somebody running up to you and shouting instructions in a totally alien language, and whacking you if you didn't understand.
 
It seems to me that most people mix up the programme and the personalities and the corporation. I don't think anyone would disagree with the keys, principles, responsibilities or qualities. Do you all know what these are? Now we start mixing it up. Personally I do not like Pat's personality!! He is very egotistical and that grates, but I cannot deny that he devised an excellent programme for training humans to interact with horses (and other animals!!) but that is not a horse training programme. Now when the corporation (and Mark Weiller) came into the picture everything changed. And commercialism became paramount, and the dollars were the only consideration...... I started studying PNH back in abouty 1997 and it made total sense. It was what my mentors back in the 50s told me, and Pat had put the information into a logical sequence. But as PNH got bigger it lost its "heart". I started losing confidence with the "Linda levels" where she had a melt down with a one eyed horse....the less said about this the better. Another thing I really hated about the system was the "don't tell them" idea. IMO if you are doing something wrong, or not doing something you should be, you need to be told.....not "allowed to find it for yourself"!!! And then came "Catwalk"!! So although I feel PNH is a good way to start studying the more natural and imo better way of interacting with horses it is only the start. You need to move on when you have a level of competence. And this is what Pat used to say!!...!!! I would have not been able to understand what the Dorrances, or Buck Brannaman, try to express without the basic understanding that Pat's system put into my brain!! So I ask everyone to think carefully and not make instant judgements on nh pupils that may not be giving out the right impression!! After all watching me ride and basing your judgement on Grand Prix dressage will not be accurate!!!!
 
to me there is nothing 'natural' about the circus that is Parelli!
i'm sure it works for some people, but what worries me is the fact that a lot of the videos of 'NH gone wrong' that you see on you tube are of the parelli method, not other NH methods just parelli, think that says a lot;)
 
Funny but I was actually thinking about Parelli when I was doing some teaching materials on product life cycles.

The initial product was actually quite good, we used the basic stuff with our cob and my daughter. Helped with groundwork and bonding no end.

Trouble is as the product reached maturity and there was compeition they have to keep relauching it to keep the income coming in.

The stuff they put out is just like "New improved Persil" every few months.

The whole thing is obviously run by marketing people, the balance sheets will be the only measure of success.

Shame because I do think NH can help and raise awareness done in the right way and balanced with traditional methods. The mistakes Parelli make just give it a bad name.
 
Parker79 said:
My new boy is fab...previous owner did various NH with him and I am eternally gratefully as he has had lots of desensitising done (ropes, umbrella, walking over tarps etc)

Now.....this is all very useful but it does of course mean my horse couldn't care less if you swing a rope....he thinks he is meant to stand as that is one of the games! so cue instructor flapping rope around try to get him to back up!

The point I am trying to make....its not one size fits all! my boy does move back, its not graceful yet but we are practising (gently) as he is trying very hard to understand....my instructor flapping ropes at him made him cross and confused.

I think one of the problems with ALL NH techniques practised by us everyday folk is that we all need to be mindful about when a horse simply doesn't understand....and not assume they are taking the p*ss!

I watched one DVD where the guy used his techniques...then he gave about 4 scenarios of what might happen and what to do ....I thought this was far better than any Parelli!
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I would be questioning any instructor who feels the need to flap ropes around to get a horse to back up tbh!

Unfortunately (or not), horses are live and have ideas of their own, therefore no method will suit every horse. Every single method of NH has it's roots firmly in the 'traditional' camp, they are all methods that have been used through history with a bit of spin on them to make them look new and individual to the method being used. In the end it all comes down to the handler! There are some aspects of horsemanship that I am good at, others that I simply cannot master, so if I have a horse with a problem I can't deal with I ask someone who can, whether that be a professional or just my OH who tends to be better in the areas I am useless in. If people actually looked at what they do with their horses they would probably find that they use an awful lot of the expensive 'methods' already, just without the tricks and the special names!

Just had a thought about spinning ropes to make a horse move back, the last 'NH/IH' person I saw do this (and she wasn't anything to do with Parelli) was our barefoot trimmer, she nearly blinded our then 3 yo after hitting him in the eye with a knotted rope - needless to say she wasn't invited back again! I didn't connect the two and wonder if your instuctor was from this school
 
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