Opinions on prascend

[paddy555]

as this has become a thread about PPID (rather than the OP) I thought I would post this from the laminitis site.

there are definitely false negatives but if there was a positive test but no symptoms then I , personally, would be wondering what was happening. No doubt many symptoms are missed if people are seeing them for the first time. Possibly the blood sample hasn't been handled very well. Also the vet is only seeing the horse for a few minutes. They aren't in a position to have considered how the horse has for example shed or if it has become lethargic ridden or if there has been some LGL..


PPID is diagnosed by the presence of clinical signs plus blood tests - there must be clinical signs for a diagnosis of PPID.
Early clinical signs of PPID include patches of long hair, delayed shedding of winter coat, loss of topline muscle, lethargy, decreased performance, abnormal sweating, infertility, tendon/ligament problems, increased worm burdens, insulin dysregulation/regional fat pads and laminitis, worsening and also including a long haircoat that doesn't shed, pot belly, polyuria/polydipsia (increased drinking and urination), milk secretion and recurrent infections including corneal ulcers as PPID becomes more advanced. Increased blood glucose may also be seen.

 

[SEL]

as this has become a thread about PPID (rather than the OP) I thought I would post this from the laminitis site.

there are definitely false negatives but if there was a positive test but no symptoms then I , personally, would be wondering what was happening. No doubt many symptoms are missed if people are seeing them for the first time. Possibly the blood sample hasn't been handled very well. Also the vet is only seeing the horse for a few minutes. They aren't in a position to have considered how the horse has for example shed or if it has become lethargic ridden or if there has been some LGL..


PPID is diagnosed by the presence of clinical signs plus blood tests - there must be clinical signs for a diagnosis of PPID.
Early clinical signs of PPID include patches of long hair, delayed shedding of winter coat, loss of topline muscle, lethargy, decreased performance, abnormal sweating, infertility, tendon/ligament problems, increased worm burdens, insulin dysregulation/regional fat pads and laminitis, worsening and also including a long haircoat that doesn't shed, pot belly, polyuria/polydipsia (increased drinking and urination), milk secretion and recurrent infections including corneal ulcers as PPID becomes more advanced. Increased blood glucose may also be seen.

A friend's cob was borderline and the vet refused to treat and told her he didn't have it.

Every other flipping symptom pointed towards cushings and he was about 20 at the time. A number of us told her to insist on prascend but unfortunately she's one of those people who if the vet says something takes it as gospel.

He didn't get the drugs, he came down with laminitis off grass so badly the only kind thing to do was put him out of his pain.

She changed vets thankfully.

 

[paddy555]

A friend's cob was borderline and the vet refused to treat and told her he didn't have it.

Every other flipping symptom pointed towards cushings and he was about 20 at the time. A number of us told her to insist on prascend but unfortunately she's one of those people who if the vet says something takes it as gospel.

He didn't get the drugs, he came down with laminitis off grass so badly the only kind thing to do was put him out of his pain.

She changed vets thankfully.

I could say "snap" to that.
The horse I mentioned in post 29 (around 2013 or so) was a 12 yo haflinger. I knew someone online at the time in another area with a 12 yo haflinger. Identical horses just about.

I got mine tested neg twice but insisted on prascend. In fact I said to my vet if he doesn't have PPID (as you are telling me) what are you diagnosing this as. They couldn't answer.
Mine improved quickly

I persuaded the other owner to get her horse tested. Negative but clinical signs. Vet wouldn't give prascend with a negative test. Absolutely no budging the vet whatsoever. That horse, very sadly, had to be PTS before very long as it got lami, mine was PTS at age 20. He got another 8 good years. I felt very sorry for the owner losing her horse.

Luckily my current vets are far more on the ball about PPID and my last horse was trialled on pergoquin without a test (very difficult to blood test without considerable stress) but vet discussed the symptoms with me and saw the problems.

 

[GinaGeo]

Mine tested borderline a couple of years ago. I had to ask to trial Pergoquin. The vets weren’t keen and wanted to use Metformin for the barely raised EMS instead.

I explained that I could manage the EMS, if the PPID was controlled. Eventually she agreed to a 1/2 tablet a day trial.

The LGL symptoms improved drastically and he became much easier to manage. To the point he could have grass (sensibly) again.

He’s just been retested. I thought he’d been a bit quiet, had needed his boots on for the gravelley bit of the track and just blew an abscesses (was never sore), but it was a big one. The result was a low positive of 24.

Vet agreed to increase to him one tablet. The change has been huge.

Back to stomping over anything, much brighter in himself and the bit of a cough (minimal), but there. Has gone.

A few clients horses that scream (PPID) have been tested, results borderline and Vets didn’t want to treat. Makes me want to scream. There’s so much you just can’t get under control without the PPID being controlled.

 

[Pidgeon]

I'm currently in a dilemma about prascend. Our pony failed the cushings blood test but the vet was as convinced as us that he had it (many classic symptoms). He definitely perked up once on it and thankfully gained some weight, but his coat, while shinier than it was, is still a bit dull and there is no doubt that he is much more lethargic than he was before he got ill in the first place. And don't get me started on his appetite - thankfully happy to eat grass & hay but we're down to desperate measures to get his prascend down him, and he's only on a low dose.

Basically while I can see improvements in some areas, I'm not 100% convinced that we've got this right. A few chats with the vet needed of course, but would appreciate any additional advice or own experiences as we mull over what to do.

Have you tried making a hole in a piece of fruit or veg, using the old fashioned hoof pick s its the right size, and then pushing the tablet in? Alternatively you can get gel capsules to put the tablet in, then they can't taste it.

 

[paddy555]

Have you tried making a hole in a piece of fruit or veg, using the old fashioned hoof pick s its the right size, and then pushing the tablet in? Alternatively you can get gel capsules to put the tablet in, then they can't taste it.

I have 3 on pergoquin and no problems getting it into them. Dissolved, put in a syringe and in it goes. 2 of them are dosed twice daily. Very quick and easy.

 

[9tails]

No complaints from me. Her level isn't quite what it should be, slightly high despite 2 tabs a day but much lower than without. But I'm not chasing a number and she's a very happy horse who now thinks she's 20 years younger than she is.

 

[Pidgeon]

Pidge has been on Pergolide for 10 years now, and on two a day for about 9 years. Yes he could do with more weight on him, but he's coming up for 28years old so looks pretty good considering

 

[Apercrumbie]

Have you tried making a hole in a piece of fruit or veg, using the old fashioned hoof pick s its the right size, and then pushing the tablet in? Alternatively you can get gel capsules to put the tablet in, then they can't taste it.

Yes, he's stopped taking them. We then escalated to mini jam sandwiches and those don't work anymore either.

We haven't tried gel capsules, I'll look into those. Thank you for the suggestion.

 

[Pidgeon]

Yes, he's stopped taking them. We then escalated to mini jam sandwiches and those don't work anymore either.

We haven't tried gel capsules, I'll look into those. Thank you for the suggestion.

No problem, they worked well on my sister's horse who point blank refused them too.

 

[myheartinahoofbeat]

I have a 22 year old with Cushings. He is one of the ones who is a porker and can’t keep weight off, even in winter.
He has been on and off prascend for 10 years. He’s only ever been on one tablet and then was dropped to half and then vet suggested he came off completely because his levels were so good. He was off it for about a year and then got a bad abscess and we tested again as vet was adamant it was because of Cushings. His levels were high and we went back on half a prascend but he is so difficult to tablet( I’ve tried ever way of disguising it) so he is off it again as I just can’t get him to take it unless. Incidentally another horse in the same field got an abscess and that one definitely doesn’t have Cushings!
So I’m at a bit of an impasse, he looks the same as he always has and if anything is more perky. I might look into the weekly injection instead

 

[GinaGeo]

It might not help, but I just slide the tablet into the lip of mine when he hasn’t got food. Watch for 5 mins to make sure it stays put and it dissolves. Job done.

 

[Tarragon]

My pony was diagnosed with Cushings at the age of 16, went on 1 prascend per day and lived another 10 years of happy and useful life. The only things I noted was a month of two of transition, but then normal behaviour returned and energy levels went up and he looked good. He went off hard food which took me a lot of adjusting to get used to as he had previously been a typical food-led cheeky pony who would have done anything for food! I didn't have to change any of my management of him, and he was field-kept and in winter had the run of a 10-acre field. He was ridden until he was 24, then retired. Weight management was done entirely by managing his grazing and he didn't need a muzzle or to be kept in. So, only good things!

 

[AppyLover1996]

When my old loan pony was diagnosed with Cushings he went extremely downhill for the first few days as the dosage needed to be adjusted - I often hear this called the "Cushings Veil" - some also go off their food, get lethargic etc. As soon as his dosage was adjusted he was back to his old self - sadly we lost him due to other unrelated issues but I do believe that he would have had many more years if it weren't for the other issues which forced our hand for making the decision to let him sleep eternally and peacefully

A friend has a pony who has Cushings and after a month and a bit of adjustment you honestly could not tell he had anything wrong with him - he delighted in running laps around me in the field one day when I went to catch him whilst my friend watched on the field camera in hysterics from up country - I turned to the camera and said "I think Salem's back to his old self now!" and a nanosecond later he ran full pelt past me and cleared the 1.25m field gate - not bad for a little 12.2 Welshie

 

[Apercrumbie]

@AppyLover1996 it's great to hear that he did so well on it. Out of interest when you say his dosage had to be adjusted, did it have to be adjusted up or down?

 

[AppyLover1996]

@AppyLover1996 it's great to hear that he did so well on it. Out of interest when you say his dosage had to be adjusted, did it have to be adjusted up or down?

With my friend's pony Salem - his dosage had to be lowered for a while so his body could adjust - that itself took roughly about a month - we started on a half tablet once a day and then worked our way up to a full tablet once a day. He's still going strong at 31 and was diagnosed at 15! He went through a period of not eating but he would drink so we made him a really sloppy mash type concoction and he "ate" that until he felt up to eating a proper looking meal as I called it. My friend is lucky that Salem is a complete gannet for feed so he'll happily eat his tablet out her hand in the warmer months when he doesn't need a bucket feed - she literally pops it in the centre of her palm, shows it to him and before you blink he's snuffled it

With my old loan pony - his dosage was also lowered to half a tablet once a day, then gently increased to a whole tablet but sadly we weren't able to see the benefits for long before we sadly lost him....

 

[Gloi]

Whatever you are giving the tablet in, fruit or bread, make sure they are regularly getting it as a treat without the tablet and they don't learn to turn their noses up so quickly.

 

[eggs]

I buy empty vegan pill capsules, pop the pill in there and drop it into his feed. I used to put it into the middle of a polo but he wised up to that after a while!