Opinions on riding/training - should you only have them if..

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ArcticIce

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'You are competing at that level or higher'



Partially because of the squillions of threads on Totilas. I saw a lot of comments (not here, mainly on Facebook) that inferred that unless you were riding at the same level on a horse of the same calibre you should not opine on the subject.

Do people really feel this way ? Is it a view you agree with ?

Is the opinion of say, a well read, if not as experienced, rider/horseperson, not valid ?
 
Everybody is entitled to an opinion, weather it is correct is another matter:p:p.

I do think people just jump on the band wagon with out understanding the reason behind it! Maybe I should start a thread!!!!
 
Think it depends on how much relevant experience that indirectly is related. I have no interest in showing, but general horse knowledge entitles me to the opinion that leaving a horse tied up in side reins is wrong. Likewise I've never trained to top level dressage but what I know of training horses has formed my negative opinion on rolkur. Jumpings more my thing, but I don't watch top riders & think up criticism. Occasionally I might notice a mistake, but I'd assume the rider has too & wouldn't dream of commenting. I'm pretty sure they are capable of noticing & correcting themselves & have enough back up to manage without my input when they are far more knowledgeable & capable than me. Wouldn't dream of slating someone in public unless I deemed it a cruel action & even then i'd want the facts.
 
I agree that there's a band wagon mentality and people don't always know the facts on which they could base an informed decision. However, it is possible to have an informed opinion without riding at that level.

FWIW I think those photos looked vile, and I said as much on that thread. However, I also know there are photos of me riding which look vile, and I wouldn't condemn any rider for the existence of such photos alone.

eta - littlelegs is right - I'm not a top level show person, but I am experienced in condition scoring horses and I know the dangers of obesity - as such I know that if I see a horse in the ring that is clearly obese, my judgement and opinion on that is sound. A split second "mistake" in the ring, I may notice, but I certainly wouldn't judge someone for it. A long term decision to train a horse in a manner I deem inappropriate or to feed it up to obese levels is another matter.
 
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ArcticIce said:
'You are competing at that level or higher'
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The very question I asked on one of the current Totilas threads :D

Only later to be challenged to show my credentials :rolleyes: Somewhat missing the point I feel :D

It always brings back the reactions to Le Samurai's death; and the difference in opinions regarding that.
 
rhino said:
The very question I asked on one of the current Totilas threads :D

Only later to be challenged to show my credentials :rolleyes: Somewhat missing the point I feel :D

It always brings back the reactions to Le Samurai's death; and the difference in opinions regarding that.
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Oops! Sorry - I wasn't referring to you!

I didn't read many and/or all the Totilas stuff on here there was just too much.
 
JFTD said:
I agree that there's a band wagon mentality and people don't always know the facts on which they could base an informed decision. However, it is possible to have an informed opinion without riding at that level.

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I agree with this totally. There can be a lot of bandwagon jumping when it comes to a highly publicised issue/case. Like you however, I do think it is possible to have a concise, informed opinion without being a peer.
 
rhino said:
The very question I asked on one of the current Totilas threads :D

Only later to be challenged to show my credentials :rolleyes: Somewhat missing the point I feel :D

It always brings back the reactions to Le Samurai's death; and the difference in opinions regarding that.
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I saw that! And thought the response to you was absolutely laughable. "Well, I'm a personal friend of all the bigwigs so I can say what I like and you are merely a little person without the right to have a thought in your head". That was how it came across, anyway :eek:
 
kirstykate said:
I do think people just jump on the band wagon with out understanding the reason behind it! Maybe I should start a thread!!!!
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I am assuming the opinions given are not just from made-up reasoning that at least *some* research would have been done.

However,

Whether you have done research or not, if you like something or find it abhorrent on sight - whether it is wrong or right to YOU - is your opinion still valid ?
 
I can't comment on totilas as I've not seen the pics. I am of the opinion that betrayal of such a giving and forgiving creature is criminal and wring. And I feel that I have enough common sense to judge for myself, regardless of yhe level I compete at.
 
I jump locally at 2'3 and I can hand on heart say that customising a pole to make it hurt a horse for instance is wrong and I don't care what level of jumping the user competes at.
 
ArcticIce said:
I am assuming the opinions given are not just from made-up reasoning that at least *some* research would have been done.

However,

Whether you have done research or not, if you like something or find it abhorrent on sight - whether it is wrong or right to YOU - is your opinion still valid ?
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Opinions are personal, correct to one person incorrect to another. I do think people dont understand why the pros do what they do and why they do;)
 
Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I'd expect some logic behind it for me to be convinced or swayed.
Eg someone saying muzzles are cruel just because they don't like the look of them, with no knowledge of why they're used.
Anyone can state their opinion but without being able to reason why people will pay little attention imo. If I explain my dislike of long term 24/7 stabling with regards to herd instinct, natural behavior, health etc someone is more likely to listen than if I just say 'I don't like it'. As long as its logical, you don't need to be at the same level. I can't imagine everyone staying quiet if Olympic show jumpers started training with spikes, we all know its wrong whether you've barely jumped or are top level.
 
kirstykate said:
I do think people dont understand why the pros do what they do and why they do;)
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I dunno.. I agree with Paris above.. i.e I know why a ProSJ might use a rapping pole (yes, it's 'illegal') Doesn't mean I agree with it.

The Pro/Amateur argument is a similar one. One I see both sides of too (not having been a professional competitor but enough experience of Pro yards and practices)

I don't like that if you are a 'pro' you get dispensations to do certain things. That it is ok because you are a professional..

I am talking generally here though also. For example can you comment on a rider at a show riding a PSG test if you are only riding Med ?
 
littlelegs said:
Everyone's entitled to an opinion but I'd expect some logic behind it for me to be convinced or swayed.
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Yes - logic is important BUT is an opinion only to convince or sway ? Are they not still entitled to their (potentially illogical) say ?

I agree with you btw - as long as there is some logic and effort to understand what they are discussing then opine away but what I am asking is slightly different..

Is a well-read, logical opinion from a person not valid because they are not actually DOING that thing themselves ?

Basically, unless you are a peer, should you STFU ? :D
 
I once commented on the fact that some three day event riders, whilst doing the Dressage phase looked like nodding ducks, or words to that effect.

Jumped on by a few people with the 'when you can ride to that level' etc. Needless to say, I can't and probably never will, but I don't need to do so to be able to see that some riders looked like nodding ducks! Should have self carriage as good as the horse's ;) :cool: Don't need to be a top rider to know that or to see it!
 
Anybody can have an opinion, and people are free to agree or disagree.
I always find it entertaining when the shout for credentials comes in :) You have to be very careful with that, because at the end of the day, we have NO idea who sits behind usernames ;) :)
 
ArcticIce said:
I dunno.. I agree with Paris above.. i.e I know why a ProSJ might use a rapping pole (yes, it's 'illegal') Doesn't mean I agree with it.

The Pro/Amateur argument is a similar one. One I see both sides of too (not having been a professional competitor but enough experience of Pro yards and practices)

I don't like that if you are a 'pro' you get dispensations to do certain things. That it is ok because you are a professional..

I am talking generally here though also. For example can you comment on a rider at a show riding a PSG test if you are only riding Med ?
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Agreed, but to a Pro its a business and a wee rub with a pole might be the difference between a nice cheque or nothing. I to see both sides
 
Personally I consider a logical opinion to be valid, even though they might not be at that level themselves.
The dressage example fits me perfectly. Medium is very much my limit (ridden a psg schoolmaster but wouldn't be capable of training a horse to that level myself or improving one, just a passenger really doing nothing more complicated than giving the right aid at the right time) but I am capable of spotting errors at that level that relate to things I do have experience with. Not in a bitchy way or because I could do better myself, but still capable of spotting it. And I imagine many who ride only at medium are more able than me & could compete at psg if time & money allowed.
People are entitled to even the maddest of opinions, but should expect the backlash if its clearly mad.
 
Is the opinion of say, a well read, if not as experienced, rider/horseperson, not valid ?[/QUOTE]


You can know all the theory you like about say, playing the piano, but that doesn't mean you can actually play the thing!

You will never stop people, particulary horsey women, from speaking their opinions. Alot of people talk the talk and its all just front.

However, just because someone is apparently at a far more lowly level it doesn't mean they can't spot something. I took my 7 year old pupil out for her first hack/road safety lesson and explained to her about why it can be so dangerous for riders on the road and that not every driver is as careful or nice as they should be. After 15 minutes or so she said, people who drive those big cars aren't very nice are they? How sad that a 7 year old could see that the BMW/Audi/Merc drivers of her neighbourhood (not a poor area so there are plenty of them) are arrogant t*t***ds.
 
Opinions are like ar$eholes ...... every body has one :D sorry couldnt resist!

For the whole you cant have an opinion unless you can do better well theres some things that are wrong and no matter what level you are you should be able to see that and then there are the things that I personally wouldnt choose to use to train a horse of mine.
 
Sometimes an outsider with no equestrian experience in their whole lives can spot a problem that those involved can't see for looking.

Plus my Mum's never played football in her life but she's spectated for almost the last fifty years so IMO she could probably tell the players a few things.

Other times people just don't know what they're on about and they should STFU. :D
 
Sadly the horse is the loser if a pro bends what would be deemed acceptable at mere mortal levels.
 
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