Opinions on riding/training - should you only have them if..

Sometimes pros have lower standards of horse care, lower standards of horse contentment and fewer scruples about, say, where disappointing horses end up than the pet pony owners.
 
kirstykate said:
I am not saying the rules dont apply but if its the difference between money and no money, what would you do??:p
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I very much hope I would do what was right for the horse... I'm don't believe the end always justifies the means. Probably why I'm aware I would never be a top competitive rider.
 
We would have very few coaches if you had to have competed to that level to have your opinion count. I think quite often people who couldn't neccasarily do, can see quite well, same in all of life, you might not play the piano well, but you can spot the duff note!
Personally I don't think different rules should apply to pros where horse welfare is concerned, they should be setting a good example.
 
ArcticIce said:
'You are competing at that level or higher'



Partially because of the squillions of threads on Totilas. I saw a lot of comments (not here, mainly on Facebook) that inferred that unless you were riding at the same level on a horse of the same calibre you should not opine on the subject.

Do people really feel this way ? Is it a view you agree with ?

Is the opinion of say, a well read, if not as experienced, rider/horseperson, not valid ?
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I have argued for a long time that all opinions are valid in many areas of horsemanship. I also think that 'outsiders' can often see and even intuitively 'feel' more clearly what the horse is expressing.
This still my strong opinion but I have got sick and tired of having to justify myself I'm afraid... :(

If the dressage world wants respect and wants to remain a 'sport' then they had better sort themselves out and police and stamp out cruel methods.
 
zaminda said:
We would have very few coaches if you had to have competed to that level to have your opinion count. I think quite often people who couldn't neccasarily do, can see quite well, same in all of life, you might not play the piano well, but you can spot the duff note!
Personally I don't think different rules should apply to pros where horse welfare is concerned, they should be setting a good example.
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The good old saying those that can do, those that cant teach:p

But I have also been told unless you can do better yourself keep quiet;);)
 
I think training at any level is fun, worthwhile and educational.

You can still have opinion if you've not done any sort of training - whether that makes your opinion less valuable is totally open to interpretation.

I'm an competent rider and have had lots of training over the years to improve myself and my horse(s). I've never trained to an advanced level in anything though - however that doesn't mean I don't and can't have an opinion on something like rolkur (or any other practice I dislike, or indeed like).
 
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Kirstykate the those that can't teach had crossed my mind!
Must admit its one of the reasons I love listening to all the snide comments ringside, especially from the large ladies who look like they couldn't even haul themselves into the saddle, let alone do better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, much as the rest of us are entitled to smile sweetly to ourselves whilst listening!
However, I do think a lot of sports need to be more aware of public perception, which is what opinion is all about.the rolkeur debate did dressage no good, anda debate on rapping horses would be damaging for show jumping.
 
:D
zaminda said:
Kirstykate the those that can't teach had crossed my mind!
Must admit its one of the reasons I love listening to all the snide comments ringside, especially from the large ladies who look like they couldn't even haul themselves into the saddle, let alone do better. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, much as the rest of us are entitled to smile sweetly to ourselves whilst listening!
However, I do think a lot of sports need to be more aware of public perception, which is what opinion is all about.the rolkeur debate did dressage no good, anda debate on rapping horses would be damaging for show jumping.
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:D:D:D:D

Its when you get told what is being said about you when you are judging that makes me laugh!!!! True about the public perception but I do think people are all to quick about forming opinions before doing the right research, take the Grand National threads, I dont normally get involved but when people view their opinions with out knowing the hows, whys or whens it does grate:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
But only by debating do some people learn I leant a lot from the GN threads, I'm not up on racing at all!
 
kirstykate said:
Totally, I'm all for a good debate, but when people get on their soap boxes;);););););)
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I think it depends on how one is opining ;)

Generally having a b*tch about how a rider "doesn't have a steady lower leg" or "rows with their shoulders" or "could be more upright" when riding a GP test. Then I would probably turn round and say... could you do better on the same horse :p

However for an issue like RK, when even a "non-horsey" person can immediately see that the horse is in distress/can't see where it's going etc, then I think that it is valid to make that opinion.

And I DID make that opinion on FB, even though I couldn't ride half an ear of Toto. I think it is HORRENDOUS that RK is being employed because "makes the difference between winning and losing." Ethics and morals have to come into play somewhere (*and breathe* I'll get off my soap box now lol)
 
I think the trouble with lots of threads like the Totilas one is that a photo is a moment in time and unless you were there of have witnessed a video you shouldn't speculate wildly. Whether you ride at all or if your Will Fox Pitt, it doesn't matter in that case.

I refrain from CC as although I can spout quite accurate stuff, it's all learnt from my sister and watching her lessons. I ride very badle in a position similar to a monket perched up the horse's neck. I also don't like CC off a photo... Totally pointless. I have photos where I'm in what appears to be a lovely position. I rode shockingly, but over a fence I looked pretty stylish. Al has photos she cringes at because of her position, but the actual live round/ video show a smooth and well ridden course...
 
Lolo said:
I think the trouble with lots of threads like the Totilas one is that a photo is a moment in time and unless you were there of have witnessed a video you shouldn't speculate wildly. Whether you ride at all or if your Will Fox Pitt, it doesn't matter in that case.

I refrain from CC as although I can spout quite accurate stuff, it's all learnt from my sister and watching her lessons. I ride very badle in a position similar to a monket perched up the horse's neck. I also don't like CC off a photo... Totally pointless. I have photos where I'm in what appears to be a lovely position. I rode shockingly, but over a fence I looked pretty stylish. Al has photos she cringes at because of her position, but the actual live round/ video show a smooth and well ridden course...
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But if you know what it *should* look like, no matter whether you manage it, is your opinion valid ?
 
ArcticIce said:
But if you know what it *should* look like, no matter whether you manage it, is your opinion valid ?
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Yep, but it takes next to nothing to know what it should look like. Knowing how to make it look like that is so much harder and I don't feel confident offering any advice beyond that based off a similar experience. So say someone's ex-hurdler was rushing into fences, I'd offer what was done with Reg to help stop that. But if someone was asking about how to stop their youngster bucking after fences I'd not offer any advice as I don't know enough to confidently do so.
 
Lolo said:
I think the trouble with lots of threads like the Totilas one is that a photo is a moment in time and unless you were there of have witnessed a video you shouldn't speculate wildly...
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The problem is that these are not moments in time but a perverse method of 'training'.

They are not the result of accident but a case of deliberate hyperflexion.

In Hagen nobody thought it worthwhile to follow rules and check if nosebands were too tight, so I think it is a good thing if people outside the autocratic clique asks questions.

Besides, we are all allowed to have opinions on television, football and politics, so why is dressage any different?
 
To me it's a bit like having an opinion on the Large Hadron Collider and experiments therein - we've all done physics at school, but unless we've done physics at that level then whilst we might be able to form an opinion and put it across in a reasonably articulate way that might convince others who are of a similar/lower level of knowledge, we really wouldn't stand up to scrutiny by those physicists who do work there and have more knowledge than us. In fact, those physicists might not even be able to explain what they are doing in such a way as to enable us to understand it, let alone form a useful opinion on whether or not it is a valid way of doing things.
 
What I find most bizarre in the whole Totilas affair is, Edward Gal has rollkured him into stardom and has been adored for it, could do no wrong and ''obviously loved the horse very much'', ''created happy and brilliant partnership'' and so on. Totilas gets sold, Mathias gets the ride, rides the horse classically and gets absolutely slated for it, returns to rollkuring the horse into stardom and gets even more bashing :o Now, please, make up your minds, which way is it? Because you can't have it both ways, I'm afraid.
 
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