Opinions on these feet please :)

timbobs

timbobs

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 November 2014
Messages
2,386
Visit site
My boy is having the winter off due to injury and illness so I have taken his shoes off for a few months.

I haven't had a BF horse before so any advice on feed etc. Would be great!

Shoes came off on Friday and he seems mostly happy so far. A little footy on the stony car park to get out to the field, but totally fine in field/stable/concrete etc.

He's having a few months totally off, so he won't be doing anything, but want to keep him as comfortable as possible. If he needs shoes back on he will have them but thought I would try without.

Any feedback on his feet would be great! He's a 15y/o TB ex-racer.

















Hopefully the pictures have worked!
 
Gosh I dont really know enough to comment but if I had to be positive I would say nice frogs? :( Sorry not too helpful BUT its early days and the rest will do him the world of good ... you never know you might get the bug and bring him back into work after his rest and not bother with shoes :)

I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable will come along but didnt want to read and run. I'm half tempted to get a TB myself so I can transition to BF because the amount of people who say TB's cant go BF does my head in, lol!
 
You'll get more experienced people than me commenting, but to me his feet look ok.

His fronts look like his heels are a little contracted, so his frog would benefit from beefing up and more concavity to his sole would be nice. His hinds don't look as contracted at the heel, and none of them look too terrible for under-run heels or anything (but then mine had awful feet so most look 'not that bad' to me :o).

He actually looks to be growing a new angle in on his front feet, did you make a change about 3 months ago (timing not my strong point here as it will depend on how fast he grows feet in)?

As he's having some time off I would get nutrition as the top priority with high fiber, low sugar and low starch with a good hoof specific balancer. If he's able to do some walking on hard smooth ground (eg tarmac) then that will help hoof stimulation, but that would depend on his injury obviously.

Though I bet you'll get told off for you camera angles :lol:, you need the camera on the ground so you're not distorting the angles, so a nice side on, heel shot and sole shots would be good to document changes.
 
Antw23uk said:
Gosh I dont really know enough to comment but if I had to be positive I would say nice frogs? :( Sorry not too helpful BUT its early days and the rest will do him the world of good ... you never know you might get the bug and bring him back into work after his rest and not bother with shoes :)

I'm sure someone much more knowledgeable will come along but didnt want to read and run. I'm half tempted to get a TB myself so I can transition to BF because the amount of people who say TB's cant go BF does my head in, lol!
Click to expand...

I'm not set on him going back into shoes if he's happy without when he comes back :) my only concern would be is that some of our hacking has stoney tracks and I wouldn't want him to be sore!
 
AlexHyde said:
You'll get more experienced people than me commenting, but to me his feet look ok.

His fronts look like his heels are a little contracted, so his frog would benefit from beefing up and more concavity to his sole would be nice. His hinds don't look as contracted at the heel, and none of them look too terrible for under-run heels or anything (but then mine had awful feet so most look 'not that bad' to me :o).

He actually looks to be growing a new angle in on his front feet, did you make a change about 3 months ago (timing not my strong point here as it will depend on how fast he grows feet in)?

As he's having some time off I would get nutrition as the top priority with high fiber, low sugar and low starch with a good hoof specific balancer. If he's able to do some walking on hard smooth ground (eg tarmac) then that will help hoof stimulation, but that would depend on his injury obviously.

Though I bet you'll get told off for you camera angles :lol:, you need the camera on the ground so you're not distorting the angles, so a nice side on, heel shot and sole shots would be good to document changes.
Click to expand...

He moved yards and change farriers beginning of September which explains the changes to the front feet :) they were much flatter before and are starting to come through more upright. You were spot on with the timings!

He was on box rest for a month after being kicked and then getting a bad infection so he's only just started getting turned out over the weekend. Once he's had some time to chill I will definitely start walking him out on smooth surfaces.



This was the injury :( he was very sore but luckily no long-lasting damage!





He's feeling much better now :D

Any feeds you would suggest? He's currently on Alfa A Oil, blue chip balancer and a joint supplement.
 
timbobs said:
I'm not set on him going back into shoes if he's happy without when he comes back :) my only concern would be is that some of our hacking has stoney tracks and I wouldn't want him to be sore!
Click to expand...

Hoof boots are always an option? I was going to get my boy some front boots because he was breaking my heart watching him pick over the stony tracks we have to go on, on our hacking routes ... to the point I was getting off and letting him pick his way round the grass verge, lol ...... but it seemed the more we did the easier it got so I didnt bother. I wont rule out hoof boots. I plan to get back to doing everything and anything come spring next year so if it means having boots to allow this then boots will always win now over shoes :)
 
Antw23uk said:
Hoof boots are always an option? I was going to get my boy some front boots because he was breaking my heart watching him pick over the stony tracks we have to go on, on our hacking routes ... to the point I was getting off and letting him pick his way round the grass verge, lol ...... but it seemed the more we did the easier it got so I didnt bother. I wont rule out hoof boots. I plan to get back to doing everything and anything come spring next year so if it means having boots to allow this then boots will always win now over shoes :)
Click to expand...

I could definitely look into hoof boots for hacking- good idea thanks! I guess I just need to see how he settles into being barefoot over the next few months.

Would be nice to keep him barefoot if I can so will see how we get on! He's off until Feb/march time so hopefully the break will give him time to adjust.
 
Crikey that looks horrible, glad to hear he's on the mend!

Mine get feed wise Alpha A Molasses Free, grass nuts, micronised linseed (and the poor do'er rolled oats) with Pro-Hoof as a balancer.

But it all depends on how well they do as for mine:

Topaz gets no hard feed at all (not even a balancer :eek:), even though she's in the most work and competing medium level BD.

Skylla gets all of the above accept the oats in one small feed a day, she's four in light work.

Doodle gets everything in a slightly bigger feed, she's 23 and has Cushings and did have the most awful feet until I removed her shoes.

Hopefully the break from shoes will do him some good, none of mine now have shoes on as I'm not intending to do any serious competing on grass so have no need to stud. Doodle may need her fronts back on if the Cushings gets worse but we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.
 
Good for you in having an open mind to try this. Any horse, including TBs, can go shoeless.

It's hard to be spot on with the photos cos u do need to have the camera on the floor to tell properly, as already pointed out. From what I can see though, the frogs do not look too bad but will improve with the right regime. The heels are indeed a little bit under run but again the right regime will transform the whole foot.

Your diet could be improved. Some don't mind alfalfa but it makes some horses footy, so I won't touch it. I'd get him on a chaff (Agrobs, Thinderbrooks), micronised linseed and pink mash. Add salt and a balancer (equimins hoof mender is my preference).

Don't trim the feet for about 3 months. Get some exercise going (using hoof boots if need be) and then get a recommended barefoot trimmer to come and look.

Keep this up and in 6-9 months, your horse will have rock hard feet!
 
Feet look not too bad, would agree with the heels being a bit under run.

Mine gets speedibeet, high fibre cubes and oats. He also gets pro balance, linseed, salt and magnesium. I need to get a nutrition analysis of our grass and hay done so that I might be able to be more specific with my supplements though.

Flat tarmac work will be great, and just let him do his own thing on stones, mine took ages to get comfortable on them but now really is pretty good.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
Good for you in having an open mind to try this. Any horse, including TBs, can go shoeless.

It's hard to be spot on with the photos cos u do need to have the camera on the floor to tell properly, as already pointed out. From what I can see though, the frogs do not look too bad but will improve with the right regime. The heels are indeed a little bit under run but again the right regime will transform the whole foot.

Your diet could be improved. Some don't mind alfalfa but it makes some horses footy, so I won't touch it. I'd get him on a chaff (Agrobs, Thinderbrooks), micronised linseed and pink mash. Add salt and a balancer (equimins hoof mender is my preference).

Don't trim the feet for about 3 months. Get some exercise going (using hoof boots if need be) and then get a recommended barefoot trimmer to come and look.

Keep this up and in 6-9 months, your horse will have rock hard feet!
Click to expand...

Will go into the feed shop at the weekend and take a look at different options :) what is pink mash- I've not heard of it before.

I'm quite limited with work options at the moment as he's needing a few months off but I will start some short in-hand walks up and down the lane in a few weeks.

A couple of other horses on my yard are BF (have been for years) and use the same farrier as me and he's supportive of BF so he': happy to keep trimming which is great.
 
Just be careful using farriers. They seem obsessed with cutting bits off here and there! Don't let them rasp the outside walls or touch the frog and only have them every 3 months ish. A pretty hoof is not always a sound functional foot.
 
http://keyflowfeeds.com/horse-feeds/pink-mash/ You could feed this and drop the extra linseed or feed speedibeet instead and add in the linseed. Personal preference really.

With all feed, you're looking for no sugar or molasses & low sugar and starch levels. Start reading ingredients lists. So many of the main merchants add molasses, alfalfa and cheap fillers to everything.
 
I'm loving that I have some posters so well trained that they warn others they will get told off for their camera angles :D :D

Not dreadful but plenty of room for improvement still, I imagine those frogs will improve quite quickly. Quite a lot of overgrown bar but that will likely remove itself when the frogs and everything else sorts out.

Ditto some short tarmac walks if you can.

And don't panic if he gets a bit sorer at the 6ish week stage, this can happen as their feet tend to 'wake' up a bit at that point. I had to boot mine for walks in front then for a while but it wasn't indicative of how he would be long term, he has done miles and miles on his barefeet and plenty of hunting etc.
 
ester said:
I'm loving that I have some posters so well trained that they warn others they will get told off for their camera angles :D :D

Not dreadful but plenty of room for improvement still, I imagine those frogs will improve quite quickly. Quite a lot of overgrown bar but that will likely remove itself when the frogs and everything else sorts out.

Ditto some short tarmac walks if you can.

And don't panic if he gets a bit sorer at the 6ish week stage, this can happen as their feet tend to 'wake' up a bit at that point. I had to boot mine for walks in front then for a while but it wasn't indicative of how he would be long term, he has done miles and miles on his barefeet and plenty of hunting etc.
Click to expand...

Haha I'll try to take some better pictures at the weekend when I'm next down in daylight!

What do you mean by overgrown bar? It's quite scary to realise that I've never really looked at an unshod foot! He's my first horse and has always been shod so haven't really thought about it which is dreadful!

Good to know about the 6 weeks- I would probably otherwise panic and put the shoes back on.
 
PoppyAnderson said:
http://keyflowfeeds.com/horse-feeds/pink-mash/ You could feed this and drop the extra linseed or feed speedibeet instead and add in the linseed. Personal preference really.

With all feed, you're looking for no sugar or molasses & low sugar and starch levels. Start reading ingredients lists. So many of the main merchants add molasses, alfalfa and cheap fillers to everything.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the advice! Will go in and have a browse at the weekend :)

equi said:
I ecco what others have said tbh! Just want to wish him well :)
Click to expand...

Thanks :) he's much brighter so hopefully he continues improving!
 
The warmth and lightness of the feet was what surprised me so much. Feeling the feet daily and feeling how warm they are naturally and just how cold and 'dead' they were when shod is very motivational and they are so light to pick up without shoes.

Im like you, sad to say I left my farrier to it and apart from picking his feet out I didnt really know much about them or looked at them much. Now I'm a bit obsessed :)

ester I love the fact you go hunting barefoot as well, it just tickles me :D
 
Bars are the bits that go down either side if the frog, on the hinds particularly it looks like it has got long and folded over on top of the sole. It is surprising in a way as farriers usually love to tidy them up ;).

Franks get long at times always when the frog is suboptimal or shedding. If you remove them he gets sore and they grow back in 10 days. If you leave them they crack in half and flake themselves off when they are no longer needed.
 
Most TB's and ex-racers only have crap feet because they are fed a crap diet :).

Those feet look long in the toe, quite under-run, flat and have thin soles but apart from that, time will fix them (coupled with decent diet and good trimming). It's important to realise that an average pasture trim is very different to a performance/barefoot trim.

I know you can't do much "work" at the moment but even in the field, they will be strengthening and functioning as hooves should. The vascular structure will improve, the lateral cartilages will strengthen and internally the extra room and movement will improve the structures of the foot bones and tendons. The angles will improve a lot. It takes times, but everyday, little improvements will be happening inside and outside. The heels will "lift" and the sole will thicken.

The nail holes growing out will make it look tatty but don't be tempted to make drastic cosmetic changes straight away. If you do have a qualified trimmer in your vicinity then always good to have a second opinion with an experienced person physically there and checking.

Def get boots for hacking when you can.
 
ester said:
Bars are the bits that go down either side if the frog, on the hinds particularly it looks like it has got long and folded over on top of the sole. It is surprising in a way as farriers usually love to tidy them up ;).

Franks get long at times always when the frog is suboptimal or shedding. If you remove them he gets sore and they grow back in 10 days. If you leave them they crack in half and flake themselves off when they are no longer needed.
Click to expand...

I also discovered that removing them makes them sore - and slippy on surfaces they'd been quite happy on previously. They do indeed sort themselves out.

OP - if, in a couple of weeks time, you can manage 5 - 10 mins in hand work on smooth tarmac (depending upon how he is), it will make all the difference.

Others have done the diet - my girl is on the cheap stuff and perfectly happy - that's speedi-beet, micronised linseed, and Equimins Hoofmender 75. I don't think they need all that Biotin unless they are metabolically compromised, but she's happiest on that.

One thing I will add is watch the thrush. If you can clear up any malingering, barely visible to the human eye, mushy bits in their frogs and heels, you'll find the whole transitioning thing goes quite a lot quicker. My girl has really struggled with growing a good beefy frog, and it's only when I got deep into the cracks with a 3 days on, 5 days off regime of 10% iodine solution that the sulcii have really opened up and she's really started to stride out across the stones.
 
I will also add that I wouldn't be trimming for the first 6 or so weeks either as they stand. I always assume a bit of thrush and treat with red horse sole cleanse weekly and they do look better for it even 4 years post transition.

I am having hoof withdrawal I've not seen them for 5 weeks having left strict farrier and mum instructions!
 
ester said:
I am having hoof withdrawal I've not seen them for 5 weeks having left strict farrier and mum instructions!
Click to expand...

I am saving Jams' feet photos until 19 December. That way we can all go 'ooo' and 'aaaah' and, no doubt, 'well that could be better, I'd expect much more/less of that' at a whole new hoof capsule at exactly 9 months after shoes off. She still has a withered arm - I mean frog - on the right fore, and that heel grows way faster than the other three feet, but it's getting there.
 
HeresHoping said:
I also discovered that removing them makes them sore - and slippy on surfaces they'd been quite happy on previously. They do indeed sort themselves out.

OP - if, in a couple of weeks time, you can manage 5 - 10 mins in hand work on smooth tarmac (depending upon how he is), it will make all the difference.

Others have done the diet - my girl is on the cheap stuff and perfectly happy - that's speedi-beet, micronised linseed, and Equimins Hoofmender 75. I don't think they need all that Biotin unless they are metabolically compromised, but she's happiest on that.

One thing I will add is watch the thrush. If you can clear up any malingering, barely visible to the human eye, mushy bits in their frogs and heels, you'll find the whole transitioning thing goes quite a lot quicker. My girl has really struggled with growing a good beefy frog, and it's only when I got deep into the cracks with a 3 days on, 5 days off regime of 10% iodine solution that the sulcii have really opened up and she's really started to stride out across the stones.
Click to expand...

Will give them a good scrub with iodine at the weekend when I'm down in the daylight.

ester said:
I will also add that I wouldn't be trimming for the first 6 or so weeks either as they stand. I always assume a bit of thrush and treat with red horse sole cleanse weekly and they do look better for it even 4 years post transition.

I am having hoof withdrawal I've not seen them for 5 weeks having left strict farrier and mum instructions!
Click to expand...

Farrier is booked again for in 6 weeks time so they won't be touched until then. I can always push it back if he needs more time.
 
Just throwing a question out there- is it worth using something like keretex to harden up the feet or should I leave them to sort themselves out?
 
timbobs said:
Just throwing a question out there- is it worth using something like keretex to harden up the feet or should I leave them to sort themselves out?
Click to expand...

If you are instigating a thrush bashing scheme, I would ignore the Keratex. It has formaldehyde in it, I believe, which is not good long term. Just let him get on with it and use diet to grow decent feet. He will be a bit sore to start off with - you could temper that with some Devil's Claw as he's not being ridden, but that takes 10 days to start working.
 
HeresHoping said:
I am saving Jams' feet photos until 19 December. That way we can all go 'ooo' and 'aaaah' and, no doubt, 'well that could be better, I'd expect much more/less of that' at a whole new hoof capsule at exactly 9 months after shoes off. She still has a withered arm - I mean frog - on the right fore, and that heel grows way faster than the other three feet, but it's getting there.
Click to expand...

Not jealous at all that Jam's grown hers in in 9 months :eek: we still have embarrassing frogs 11 months in :o.
 
Mine are all barefoot, three have never been shod, my mare had to be retired at the age of seven due to reoccurring abscess issues so shoes were impossible to keep on her. She is now 23 and completely sound and has been for over 10 years. My cob went barefoot about 5 years ago although it took about 2 years for him to be sound on all types of surfaces. No special feeding regime just lives out 24/7 alll year with good quality hay over winter, that's it.
 
timbobs said:
A couple of other horses on my yard are BF (have been for years) and use the same farrier as me and he's supportive of BF so he': happy to keep trimming which is great.
Click to expand...

PoppyAnderson said:
Just be careful using farriers. They seem obsessed with cutting bits off here and there! Don't let them rasp the outside walls or touch the frog and only have them every 3 months ish. A pretty hoof is not always a sound functional foot.
Click to expand...

Not all farriers are obsessed with cutting bits off (though certainly some are). Mine went barefoot with the help of a farrier who saw him every 5 weeks. Personally I don't care if someone's a farrier or a trimmer, I'm more interested in whether they trim multiple horses who are in work and comfortable and whether I can communicate with them. To generalise, trimmers provide more advice on diet etc. and cost more. Of course some farriers are also qualified trimmers.
 
Not to bad but under run, can I be picky with the right hind and say put your hand round the front of the leg to lift it up as if he lashed out backwards your arm would cop it.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top