Opinions on theses Hooves PICS (Barefoot Peeps)

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dressagecrazy

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Ok, im going to give a little background but im keeping the actual problem to myself for the time being & will tell all when i have got some opinions.:)

Horse is a 10yo KWPN dressage horse, he is currently off work due to Impar Lig Damage & has now completed 10 weeks of box rest.

5 weeks ago we took him barefoot, he was being shod remedially with Eggbars & Equipak the shoes did not suit at all & caused more problems. With a lot of research on my part i decided that being barefoot may give him a much better oportunity at getting better & being more comfortable.

Shoes came off, Farrier decided that he did not need to trim anything at the time & just lightly rebalanced foot. Horse Much happyier barefoot going great guns, few infections but thanks to the marvelous Redhorse products there under control now.

So these are his feet now i have only posted the front feet Pic's, he was seen by farrier yesterday & recieved a fairly big trim he's gone 5 weeks since last farrier visit.

What are your opinions??

Do you think there would be any problems from this trim??

Would you expect problems from a trim & rasp like seen in below pictures??

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Im after your view's not bitching this is important to me.

I will reveal why ive asked for opnions later. The more experienced opinions i get the better, please excuse if photo's are not that good but i was trying to hold feet & take pic's at the same times.

I look forward to reading your Veiws.:D
 
Hi!

I am not experienced enough to give an opinion - but I do know who could give you an opinion: Peter Laidley from hoofworkaustralia. I have followed his advice on my journey to making my horses barefoot (best decision I ever made - hope you decided to stick with it, too!)

You are a brave person "going barefoot" - it will be the single most amazing thing you ever do for your horse. My horses have never been sounder!!

Good luck with your horses recovery.
 
Thanks, going Barefoot is not a new thing for me though. Most of my horses are Barefoot however this particular horse was shod in front. He was my competition horse.
 
Only a trimmer or farrier I think will be able to have the knowledge to comment on the specifics of the trim and how it works for the horse - I think most of them would rather see the horse moving too rather than try to asses a pic - is super hard to make an assesment from a pic no matter how good!
My own (non professional, just an interested party!!) thoughts is that the toe and a little on the side of the hoof seems to have been rather severely rasped back (why the purple spray on the coronet band there?) - is that to correct a deviation in the hoof wall? If so then it isn't a solution I would be happy with. Wonder if you have some thrush in the central groove of the frog? The bars on one of the feet looks to be rather close for my liking to the back of the frog. Would be concered about pressure and infection there. Compared to my mare the underside of the toes look a little short - may well suit all other horses but that would make my girl footy for a while. Heels look a little high, but with careful trimming and time that will come right. Frogs need time to toughen and develop, do the frogs touch the ground? Has anyone discussed diet with you as well as trimming? Makes the most enormous difference and I would go so far as to say that it doesn't matter how amazing the trim is, without the backing of a good diet a sucessful barefoot working horse may well be elusive.
Lots of luck, interested to know more!
 
I'm no expert and can't comment on the overall balance etc. just one or two things I notice that I believe a non invasive trim wouldn't entail.
First a positive there is a roll on the hoof wall. I see, on the solar pics, what looks like rasp marks to the sole callous at the toe on most all the hooves.The last pick shows the transluscent sole and bar on the left side of the pic which to me signals he has cut into the live sole which I believe is a no no. Both these things can lead to soreness in my understanding.

Hope some of the experts reply for you.
 
Not experienced but just as an owner of a barefoot horse.

As others have said difficult to comment on pictures but as a general point my TB who is barefoot is very sensitive to any frog trimming.

If my farrier were to trim the frog back and tidy it as much as he does for the shod horses, Frankie will be sore for a few weeks and I have to make sure that my farrier is supportive of this. However he is a particularly sensitive horse and was often lame after shoeing if trimmed back too far so barefoot we do the minimum on a trim.
 
Thanks very much Glosgirl, very interesting read.

I can confirm the horse is on a fibre only diet with no mollases & has been since the day i had him, he's also on soaked hay mainly because he's on box rest & doesnt need any extra sugar & because the hay ive got is a little to good lol.

Im very aware of the infections & yes he does have infection of the frog on both fronts, this was caused by the Equipak he had in for 5 weeks when he was remidially shod. I then made is worse because i had to cold hose the horse for 2 weeks everyday & the feet became soggy unfortunately.

The infections are clearing up well now & im quite confident there under control, mainly thanks to Redhorses products which are fab.

The Purple spray is not meant to be there it was an accident lol, no reason for it other than i slipped.:o:o
 
Second criso's comment about the frog trimming, it does often make horses sore when it's not over grown.
Just to add on the last pic it looks like the wall at the quarters may be a bit long but it's hard to tell.
 
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Lucy would you mind Pming me your thoughts if you don't wish to post on the thread.

Nothing will be taken wrongly or will incriminate you btw, im just very interested in your opinion.

I think where getting the same jist though & none of you will be surprised to hear that the horse is in quite a bit of pain.:mad:
 
No i dont Amanda, but im hoping that a DAEP can visit tomorrow he's having a sachet of Danilon morning & night which my Vet is aware im doing. We just didnt need this to happen after what we've been through, im really hoping it does not cause further damage to the Impar & DDFT otherwise i will be up in the dock for Murdering this farrier.
 
Nappies, vet wrap and duct tape will help keep him comfortable too.
I do sympathise as I've been in the same situation but hopefully as long as you keep him comfortable and painfree he will be ok and it will grow back.

What waa your farrier's response, when mine overtrimmed frankie one time he was mortified. Shoes came off and went back on in case they were the problem, he gave me advice and texted me daily until he was sure he was on the mend. Which is why I gave him a second chance and it never happened again.


So he trims frankie now he's barefoot and listens to me but I keep a close eye on what the knife is doing ;)
 
He's already padded up with Nappies & Vetwap it's the only i can do. Im very doubtful im going to give the farrier a 2nd chance tbh, he was well aware of the horses condition & i asked him to be careful as i didnt want him being made footsore in anyway shape of form.

Im fuming tbh & totally fed up of proffesional after proffesional letting me & my horses down. Ive worked so hard with this horse & to have a set back like this after what we've gone through is just heartbreaking. He was so happy barefoot & i was starting to think that he may recover from his injury but atm im not.
 
I'm not a working trimmer (so I am free to comment just how I see it, because I don't have to work alongside farriers!) but I am very experienced in trimming performance horses.

I would expect your horse to be unsound on anything but soft or dead smooth surfaces after that trim, because it is obvious that your farrier has removed a very significant proportion of the toe callous that your horse should be walking on.

The external view with the bevel put on and flare removed is super. Underneath is a different story. In my opinion, he should not have touched the sole callous.

I think you need to change farriers or get yourself a barefoot trimmer.


Edited to ad - I posted this without reading to the end of the thread and was completely unaware that your horse was unsound when I wrote it. I wish I could prove it :-) !
 
Just a comment, not being an expert AT ALL. When I looked at the pictures, my initial thought was "typical farrier, took all the sole off." That was before I saw your last thread.

I went on a Barefoot Clinic several years ago and there was a farrier there and he said it is just automatic, they pick up the hoof, get their knife out and trim out the sole. It is what they learn to do.
 
When I was trying boots with pads I ended up cuting up a yoga mat whilst waiting for the pads to be delivered. It didn't work too bad it did compress quite a bit but I found if I cut out the shape of the frog my horse was happier. Maybe try something like that.
Sorry cant be of more help.
 
Hi Dressage Crazy,
Just seen your pics and I do not wish to be a scare monger, but your horses' feet are too small for his size and they do not match each other as pairs.
I don't know what the problems you have been experiencing are but I would be worried if my horses' feet looked like this.
Possible suggestion - go look at other peoples horses feet, see if they match and are a good size and ask them who their farrier is.
Best of luck.
Bryndu
 
Instead of gaffer tape, buy some silage tape it’s about £5 a roll and it’s about 5 inches wide.

Interesting to hear all these hoof comments, I am reliant on friends and trimmer explaining mine to me!
 
Is the red on the sole spray stuff? Hard to tell.

Looking at the foot on the ground the bevel is awful - he's taken the toe back way too much - trimming into the water line, right back to the white line, which is a big no no - no wonder your horse is sore as the structural integrity of the hoof wall has been weakened. For some reason he only seems to have beveled the toe and not the quarters or heels. Again not how I would trim - this is not what a mustang roll should look like!

Can't tell from the photos if he's balanced the foot properly or not. Re the sole - the black fissures suggest there is sole to be removed as the black is infection but without actually having the hoof in front of me to judge whether the sole is ready to come away or not it's impossible to say for sure. It's erronious of people to suggest you should never touch the sole - you remove what shouldn't be there and leave alone what should. Leaving stuff is as bad as taking too much but you trim to live sole never into live sole - knowing the difference is what being properly trained is all about.

I would suggest getting an AANHCP trimmer to have a look at him - whereabouts are you?
 
I'm not a trimmer but it looks like what I always think of as a sculpture project! The trimmer has shaped the hoof into almost an ideal of what they think it should look like without giving the horse a chance to grow something for itself. The horse might want a hoof under it that looks very different. My old horse grew a fantastic foot when he went barefoot but it took a good few months, and the majority of the exfoliation of the sole/frog and removal of flared wall he did himself. He was never sore but was trimmed really very conservatively compared to your horse.

Good luck, I hope barefoot works out for you in the end :)
 
My first reaction is 'ouch, I bet he's sore'

Farrier looks like he's chopped off all the protection the hoof had! :( :mad: Looks rather like an overly severe laminitic trim?!

Rather than wrap and nappies it would be much cheaper and easier in the long run to but him a pair of hoof boots. The 'wrap-around' trainer type are dead easy to put on - Cavallo would be perfect. They can have pads inside them too - cheapest and best thing are gardner kneeling pads cut to size.


On the plus side, he looks like he will have very nice feet once the butchers job has grown back - good wide frogs, the start of decent heels and a reasonable wall thickness. With time and a skilled trim he should manage well barefoot.
 
Thanks everyone, im well aware of every problem with this horses feet. It's just bloody un-believable what the farrier did yesterday, the horse was doing absolutely mavelous prior to yesterday & it was obvious he was very happy.

Ive got 2 sets of nappies on each foot as well as a very deep shavings bed with mats underneith & he's on 2 Danilon a day dropping to one hopefully tomorrow as per vets instructions.

Im very glad i posted the pictures as i would of been very surprised if people had said this trim was good. In all my years ive never seen anything as bad as this, upset is not the word. Im not a stupid person & know exactly how a horses foot should look.
I have a DEAP coming out tomorrow to discuss all my horses, im based in Staffordshire so if anyone can recommend anyone then please do.

I was supposed to be calling Leahurst today to give them a 6 week update & i was looking forward to telling them how well he had been doing. But i just couldnt call them im so upset.
 
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Can i just add for everyones referance, that the horse had grown a fair bit of foot. Honestly i nearly died when i saw what the Farrier had trimmed off yesterday, horse had gone from quite good feet that just needed a light trim & blalance to these small horribly sculpted things.

Also worth noting the horse is 18hh & has normally fairly big feet but not atm as you can see:mad::mad:.
 
dressagecrazy said:
In all my years ive never seen anything as bad as this, upset is not the word.
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Have a look at this trim! Hope the link works as I sometimes have trouble with FB links. This is from the AANHCP facebook page. :eek:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v...0&set=a.157765404246317.29387.143747122314812

Here the back of the foot especially has been erm, 'butchered'?

Your boy will be fine I'm sure. His hoof will soon regrow, so keeping him comfy (as you are doing) in the meantime is the main thing. :)
 
Bryndu said:
Hi Dressage Crazy,
Just seen your pics and I do not wish to be a scare monger, but your horses' feet are too small for his size and they do not match each other as pairs.
I don't know what the problems you have been experiencing are but I would be worried if my horses' feet looked like this.
Possible suggestion - go look at other peoples horses feet, see if they match and are a good size and ask them who their farrier is.
Best of luck.
Bryndu
Click to expand...

Bryndu are you a barefooter? Barefoot feet often look a lot smaller than we are used to. They are small but that usually also means tight and solid and they are so much better at shock absorbing without shoes on that the size is not a huge issue. They may well get a lot bigger if he remains barefoot. From the first centimetre of growth it looks as if they are going to.

Re Mr Darcy's comments , old soles on a newly unshod horse often crack like that, and the cracks get ground dirt in them. It's of no consequence whatsoever and the sole will crack off and leave a nice smooth surface in its own good time. If it goes chalky you can scrape it off yourself with a hoofpick.

I also do not believe that there is an issue with bringing the toe back to the white line. I would do that on any laminitic or "navicular spectrum" horse. My barefoot horses in hard work bevel their own toes so that the edge of the white line is the last thing in contact with the floor.

I don't personally believe that anything that the farrier has done will be causing that horse any problems except the butchering of the sole, which is clearly a mistake. But in a few days the horse will have throw up some emergency callouses, repair the mistake and be back to form again.

Good luck with the rehab OP, it's your horse's best chance.
 
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