Opinions on yard issue

[Equestrian1987]

Hi everyone.

Can I get your opinions on an issue we have experienced tonight on our livery yard.

A bit of background
We moved our horse along with another horse that we help care for (but her owner pays for) to a small livery yard. This small yard was once a riding school and apart from the few retired horses there, we are the only liveries.
Lovely small yard, with an indoor arena.

the previous yard had many issues with it also being a riding school so arena access was limited and always busy as you would expect.

We have been at the new yard for a few months and things have been fine, it was the ideal move. We signed the contracts for livery, (was a standard BHS contract) and have been paying on time and are no bother. We are polite, nice people, who are tidy and quiet,

Now to the issue…..
Tonight my partner was approached by the owner.
She said she didn’t realise we would be riding in the arena as much as we are and that she now wants to limit us to 2 rides per week, and any additional rides at a additional premium charge…… this was never mentioned when we signed the contract. And no request for how often we ride was mentioned.
The reason given was vague, about how there’s outstanding bills to do with the arena so they need to be covered or something, my partner was so knocked back by the request she didn’t take it in.

We ride maybe 4/5 times a week in the arena, about 30mins - 45 mins a time. And this has reduced lately as we have managed to get our young horse hacking out alone.
As I mentioned above, other than our horse, the owners horse and a few small ponies (who most are retired or not ridden) that’s it. Ive never seen anyone hire the arena, so I don’t see availability as the problem,

As you can expect this has upset us as the additional cost will be £60-£80 a month. The retired horse we came with never uses the arena, but still pays full price……

It’s upset us as a small family tonight as we feel there might be another motive to why this has been mentioned. Such as the idea of having liveries on the yard has fallen out of favour with some of there family.

We are going to discuss this with the owner on the weekend when we are all present, but I would really like to hear what other people think.
We like the owner. But this has just come out of nowhere.
From past livery yards I have been on I have never had restrictions like this, ranging from small run down yards to high end dressage yards.

Thanks everyone

 

[Caol Ila]

That's a new one on me. Totally bonkers.

I'd tell the YO that if they are arbitrarily limiting the number of times you use the arena, you will be moving your horses. Because it's nuts. Hope there are other acceptable yards in your area so it's not an empty threat.

 

[PurpleSpots]

Overheads to run the arena are understandable, but they're not your issue, especially if they weren't mentioned before you moved in and signed the contract.

Things do change in life, but I'd expect - and insist upon - a reasonable notice period before any changes are implemented and become chargeable so that you have time to consider whether to stay and pay the extra, or to look for and secure somewhere else.

 

[TPO]

I was in a yard where they was a coin meter for the indoor lights.

Perhaps YO is worried about electricity costs? Not that it makes their behaviour OK, you had an agreement and signed a contract. I don't know if it would stand up and I'm guessing no one would want to stay in a yard that they had to fight to stay on.

I think approaching YO and having a discussion to get to the root of the problem is thr best step. Electricity prices have changed since 2017, when I was in the coin meter yard, but £1 lasted over an hour. I don't know the cost to install but that may be a solution if the cost of electricity over winter is an issue. Just for the indoor, not you paying electricity for thr whole yard.

 

[Abacus]

Using an arena less than once per day on livery seems a reasonable amount, and the sort of usage that as a yard owner I would factor in with a new livery arriving. I would expect liveries to be reasonable and work with others over timings at peak times of day, if there are times when the arena is used more, but it sounds as though the issue is with 'maintenance'. The point about outstanding bills is odd, sounds a bit as though they are trying to get you to fund whatever those bills are; in principle I would say that all regular yard/arena maintenance costs should be factored in to the price of the livery apart from exceptional damage by one horse.

 

[SEL]

Is it electric lights do you think? The only other maintenance would be running the harrow over it so perhaps you could smile sweetly and offer to run that round weekly instead of paying

 

[Melody Grey]

Have they suddenly realised how much it costs to maintain and are trying to pass it on?

 

[Red-1]

If you are using the lights then I get it. Locally, last time I rode in the dark which was years ago, it was £5 for the hour, but that was for good, powerful lighting.

If not, then this may not be the yard for you if the extra cost upsets you to the point that either you can't afford it or it spoils the experience.

Are you able to use the retired horse's arena spots? So, you would get 4 X a week for your horse?

 

[Equestrian1987]

So just to add we already are going to pay for use of lighting if we ride in the evenings so that was already agreed.

 

[Lyle]

I had this at a yard I was on. Quite a full place, I was open and honest about the level of eventing I was doing at the time. Was mentioned to me that I would have basically exclusive access to the sand school, as most liveries were retired or out of work. I first twigged something was a bit off, when I would finish schooling and basically pass the YO on the quad bike with the arena harrow, as I walked out the arena gate. I was also told I would need to find somewhere else to get my horse shod, as I couldn't use the tie ups anymore for that (??). Like you OP, I was quiet, tidy, respectful. My horse was an absolute gentleman, never any bother and always well behaved.
I ended up moving and never looked back.

 

[SEL]

So just to add we already are going to pay for use of lighting if we ride in the evenings so that was already agreed.

In that case I wonder if they've realised they don't really want people on site.

I did a stint on a yard where they wanted my money but not me actually being there!!

 

[meleeka]

Overheads to run the arena are understandable, but they're not your issue, especially if they weren't mentioned before you moved in and signed the contract.

Things do change in life, but I'd expect - and insist upon - a reasonable notice period before any changes are implemented and become chargeable so that you have time to consider whether to stay and pay the extra, or to look for and secure somewhere else.

This. They can do what they like, it's their yard, but I'd insist on a reasonable time before changes are implemented, in which time you can consider your options.

Do you poo pick the arena when finished etc? Perhaps if you offered to help maintain it they'd be more happy for you to use it?

 

[Equestrian1987]

This. They can do what they like, it's their yard, but I'd insist on a reasonable time before changes are implemented, in which time you can consider your options.

Do you poo pick the arena when finished etc? Perhaps if you offered to help maintain it they'd be more happy for you to use it?

we poo pick everytime, we pick our horses feet out too once finished riding to make sure we dont drag the surface out too.

 

[nikkimariet]

That is mad. Never heard of it before. Unfortunately it is their yard…

 

[ihatework]

Okay, it is a weird request to implement so I get your distress on it. I’d be a bit annoyed too.

But - to play devils advocate - the YO is within their rights to change the T&C of the contract, although I’d expect a months notice on the change.

Furthermore, what you need to ask yourself is if the yard is meeting your needs and how would the increased cost compare to what other livery yards available to you?

 

[Goldenstar]

Have they suddenly realised how much it costs to maintain and are trying to pass it on?

I would think so and it might be the time it takes to maintain the arena as well
I think it’s up to OP, the can move on or accept the extra cost .
Personally I would try to negotiate an all in charge .
Yards have the upper hand as demand exceeds supply for nice places .

 

[Fransurrey]

Have they suddenly realised how much it costs to maintain and are trying to pass it on?

If it was previously a riding school, they would (should?) have been doing a lot more maintenance than is needed with a couple of ridden liveries.

I think you're right to just talk it through. It may be just that they need extra money (for whatever reason) and this was an idea they thought they could implement easily. Point out diplomatically that there are two horses under your care, therefore in theory 4 slots per week (if they want you only to use it twice) and that you expect this to be taken into account. If otherwise, you will have to reconsider being a livery, as you feel it's unreasonable. It does sound like they just haven't thought this through, though.

 

[Zoeypxo]

I viewed somewhere once that had a rule of only being allowed to use the school twice a week, i thought it a bit strange but didnt end up moving there because there was also quite a strict limit on turnout.

If you are otherwise happy there its definitely worth talking it out.

 

[Welly Boot]

I have looked at yard who restricted on time you could use the arena for and walked away but they were up front about 30 mins only 3 times a week.... erm.....

I would have a chat to new YM and see if it's the electricity that's the issue or if having liveries has now caused a hike in insurance / commercial rates etc ...

 

[Equestrian1987]

If it was previously a riding school, they would (should?) have been doing a lot more maintenance than is needed with a couple of ridden liveries.

I think you're right to just talk it through. It may be just that they need extra money (for whatever reason) and this was an idea they thought they could implement easily. Point out diplomatically that there are two horses under your care, therefore in theory 4 slots per week (if they want you only to use it twice) and that you expect this to be taken into account. If otherwise, you will have to reconsider being a livery, as you feel it's unreasonable. It does sound like they just haven't thought this through, though.

Yes, this is our plan for the weekend when are are all present, including the other owner (retired horse) Thanks

 

[SantaVera]

I can see both sides of this. I expect owner has realised that they can get £x per hour for renting out the arena, have added up the time you are using it and decided they aren't charging enough. They may have had a hefty estimate for maintenance or repairs too. I think sitting down and talking it through with them is the way forward. The yard sounds ideal in other ways.how much are you paying for livery op? I am wondering if they have had a electric bill and realised just how much it's costing them for you to use the arena and are needed to charge more.

 

[EventingMum]

As others have said if it's not the electricity it's rather odd. I hire my arenas out quite a bit but have protected livery times too which are all included in their livery charges and include lights. Depending on the surface could you offer to help with the arena maintenance? Several of my liveries don't use our arenas at all but all pay the same price as my rates, which are a major cost, don't vary depending how much they are used.

 

[Fieldlife]

That does sound very frustrating. I wonder if they have realised they are undercharging compared to their costs, and there isnt enough profit on the liveries, relative to the rates and overheads charged on the indoor school, and maintanence etc.

It is pretty amazing to have use of an indoor, nearly to yourselves.

I pay over £100 a month to use neighbouring arena to supplement the arena on my yard that needs some work.

Most people with only an outdoor arena that ride in an arena regularly would pay £60-80 more for nearly private usage of a large indoor on site (especially in winter!)

I think before you chat with yard owners, want to see if there are other less expensive comparable alternative livery options that might work for you, or not. It might be not! Which influences how you behave.

Can you afford the increase? Is it worth a premium for indoor school?

If the yard owner is paying a huge amount a month on rates in school they may need to earn more to cover cost, OR to decommission it, e,g, if use for storing hay so cant ride, I think can reduce rates.

 

[Fjord]

Hope you can have a chat with the owner and get it sorted amicably. Keep us posted!

 

[Lamehorses]

There's a yard near me that charges liveries for using the indoor. Liveries get a discount of £5 per hour compared to outsiders renting.
However new liveries are told this on viewing, to change the rules once you are there seems wrong.
Over the years I have realised how few horse owners actually ride so maybe they were hoping for that
Have a good chat with the owners & be prepared to move on

 

[JFTDWS]

A variation on this happened to me once. Full livery on a posh yard - they increased the weekly rate between me viewing and moving in, and added a rule about not using the jumps in the big outdoor unless you paid extra to hire it for an hour.

I wasn’t impressed, but I didn’t jump more than once a week (and only one of the two horses I had there jumped) so I put up with it. But they were increasing poor on welfare - mine had no forage for 12 hours a night (they refused to feed more or offer alternatives) and the turnout was very much not as described, so I moved on. The yard has changed hands since, and always had vacancies - I think their business model was flawed, and not because it was cheap.

It strikes me that you are probably in a similar situation. They aren’t prepared to provide the service they described before you moved in - you’ll probably find that starts to become an issue in other areas over time too - whether that’s because they haven’t costed it properly, or a personal issue, or just not liking the reality of liveries.

If the price (including arena hire) is still competitive, you may want to wait it out and see how it goes, but I’d still keep an eye out for alternatives just in case.